Mike Meyers is Gay? Always has been? Maybe? - Page 5

Really?

I say let the fucker die.

Embarrassing.

Yeah, bleeding-heart dipshit here, chiming in again. I don't get denied much of anything based on being a straight white guy. Sure, people can be dicks to me, but in no way do I look at that as being any way comparable to how someone who's being persecuted for their sexual orientation, race, etc. feels about something, and I sure as hell don't see myself as being of any authority to be the arbiter of what someone should and shouldn't be offended by when it comes to these sorts of things.

Not being gay, I still can't imagine the treatment that most gays get in many places as being anything less than depressing and/or terrifying. And the last time I checked, Lakeland, Florida wasn't a bastion of acceptance.

If this weren't a public forum, I could understand making jokes about other people's sexuality, race, etc. Because the idea in a private forum is that everyone knows each other. But I don't think the idea that trying to make a public space as comfortable for every member of the public (that may have a predeliction that hurts no other member of society) that is above a certain IQ is all that offensive. Except to stupid people. To them, I'm sorry. But not really.

Neither was Houston, Texas. Paul Broussard was killed the year I graduated high school. By people in the same graduating class (but different school) as me.

Edited to add: I moved to Lakeland in the past 3 years. Houston is where I'm from (more or less).

When people are young, they do and think stupid things. You're forty-four. What's your excuse? (No offense)

Even worse, then. Ah, East Texas...

For those of you who don't know the name Paul Broussard, look it up. His death was the end result of a bunch of kids who drove into town to "beat up some queers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Broussard

Your point being?

These posts pretty much sum up this straight, white guy's take on the topic.

I'll add that the only thing more annoying than the guy (or girl) who drops a racist, sexist, or homophobic comment on a public message board is the guy (or girl) who, after being confronted for dropping said comment, tries to defend it as an exercise in free speech. Apologize and mind your manners next time.

I'm not picking a fight DaveB, I'm just generally curious. And I know the internet is an entirely different beast, but are you saying we are allowed free speech so long as it's filtered within a certain ideological viewpoint?

There's a difference between FREE SPEECH and DUMB SPEECH.

Note: you are not allowed "free speech" on Chud.

I'd say it boils down to a smidgen of common courtesy, Doc. While, say, you may have black friends that laugh at nigger jokes, it's not like that all across the board.

Oh, I get that. I just want to make sure we're not doing some Big Brother double-plus good level of acceptable speech.

Dre, DUMB SPEECH and FREE SPEECH. I like that.

Five pages... really?

If I apologize again, will this stop?

If you hadn't bumped the thread, would it have stopped?

Pretty much what Jake and Dre said. Nick is very lax in terms of what's allowed here, and that's good. This means that any and all questions about what's offensive and what's not come down to personal responsibility and accountability.

When someone accuses you of saying something that he or she finds offensive, it's on you to either apologize or defend the content of what you said. It's a lazy and wrong-headed argument to simply suggest that the offended party is trying to curtail speech. I don't remember HBarr or anyone else suggesting that offensive speech shouldn't be "allowed" here. Personally, I think the occasional "racism and eugenics aside" outburst is quite helpful, since it lets you pick out the dumbasses.

In a nutshell, freedom of speech doesn't offer you protection from rebuttal, even when that rebuttal includes the strong suggestion that you refrain from certain types of speech as a matter of courtesy.

I really have to echo Zooey on this one. I do see what you're getting at, HBarr, but it's two very different things. Both groups have been discriminated against in completely different manners. Yet on the other hand, both have each had benefits the other group hasn't. For example - on the plus side for women, the rednecks very often don't ride their pickups into town to beat up on women for fun. One of my closest friends in college (in a redneck town) was openly gay, and he used to get rotten apples thrown at him by rednecks when he'd walk into town to buy groceries. Eventually, he'd have either my roommate or I walk into town with him so that he'd be seen in the presence of a woman - then they'd leave him alone. They weren't about to hurl apples at a girl, so it was a bit of protection that we offered him, simply by nature of our gender.

On the other hand - gay men, closeted or not, have never been denied the right to vote. We have. See, different forms of discrimination, but I do honestly see what you're getting at. I'm not trying to simplify it, I'm just saying that even though I get your point, it's not the same thing.

I debating responding to Zooey and Lisa and I do understand their response to a degree; however, while these 2 different forms of discrimination may be essentially different they are both fruits of the same tree. As such, I think (please note the I) they can be compared and contrasted (which was my point). Especially given my base point of posting in this thread from the very beginning. The very nature of name calling is to dehumanize. From this root, other more dangerous acts of discrimination flourish. To see words like faggot, cocksucker, et al bandied about in this thread (and others) with such ease and disdain is highly troubling but hey, I'm just an uppity PC fag who needs to be taught his place.

Edited to add: My last line isn't aimed at either Zooey or Lisa (or for that matter anyone in particular in this thread). Just frustration at the notion of having to accommodate such comments.

That's a little martyrish, isn't it? I really don't see anybody here trying to "teach you your place". That's just drama talk.

Look, no reasonable person is going to debate that epithets, whether racial or sexual, are acceptable or respectful. Clearly, they're not. But I have one piece of advice for you, which you can feel free to take in or ignore. It's easier for you to grow a thicker skin and accept that you're going to hear this shit from time to time than to go through life trying to change the minds of every single person you meet. If you try the latter, you're just going to emotionally exhaust yourself. There's no point in getting upset about what dickheads think. You're going to hurt yourself far worse than them.

In this instance, yes it was a little drama talk. Yet, in real life that particular line has been used on me.

I'm not trying to change the minds of every single person I meet. I'm trying (and failing by the way) to point out that name calling is at the least juvenile and at worst dehumanizing. How about we knock it off? Instead I'm getting "Grow a thicker skin." This from a somewhat more enlightened board. Frustrating.

I'm not pulling "grow a thicker skin" right out of my ass. I'm saying it from experience. I'm half middle eastern, and right now, we're the second most hated minority in the country, right behind you guys. If I let name calling get to me, I'd have committed suicide in junior high. You just have to realize that the world is full of jackasses. Sure, yes, call them on their shit whenever you can. But if you actually let it get to you, you're just doing their jobs for them.

Yet if nothing is said at all, an atmosphere is created in which it's ok to use such language carelessly.

I've been around the block. My skin is plenty thick. How often do you see me raising hell about this issue? Especially considering how often this language is used on this board? Sometimes it is appropriate to make a stand. Was this thread the best place? Probably not, but it was high time something was said.

I don't really understand this. How can you say whether homophobia and sexism should be compared or equated in general based on your own experiences alone?

I can see your point. By occasionally making an issue of it in a public forum, you can always hope to appeal to people who were already inclined to be reasonable, and make some of them think about what they're saying.

Bingo.