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THE DARK KNIGHT Post Release - Page 71

post #3501 of 3530
7/8/10 at 1:02pm
Blargh.
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post #3502 of 3530
7/16/10 at 10:16pm
In the interests of correcting a possible breach of the rules I am "moving" this discussion from The Dumb Lantern thread.
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Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
Drop TAS as I am talking about film and I will give you Constantine.

I, however, still remain unimpressed by The Dark Knight. I have yet to find this fantastic performance that Ledger supposedly gave and I feel like the movie is three shorts that happen to have crossover in their storylines.
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Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post
Buh WUH?
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Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
I know, I know, I know.... I just wasn't that impressed. To this day I think his death inflated a marginal performance.

I don't get the love for these supposed iconic scenes like the head out the speeding car. Ledger's Joker didn't click with me because I was actively backlashing against the hype surrounding his performance because of his death. I fully admit that.

I have tried to steer clear of the film(1 theatrical and 2 DVD viewings since original release day) to try and revisit it later and see what I might not be getting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post
His passing certainly cranked the hype impossibly high but I thought he absolutely disappeared into the role. The "LOOK AT ME" scene had me actually sweating. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it. But that's what makes discussion fun right?
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Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
Absolutely, and why I am distancing myself from it so that maybe I can see the depths other people have.
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Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post
Honestly, I don't understand this at all. No offense meant, Tzu, but why on earth would you consciously allow hype to affect how you did or didn't appreciate his performance on its own merits?

I'm not trolling here at all. I'd just love to understand your thoughts on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
I have difficulty explaining it. TDK just didn't work for me as a whole compared to Begins. I didn't think Dent/Two-Face was fleshed out and utilized as well as could be for a counterpoint/example of how close we all are to madness that everyone attributes the character to.

Bale's Bat-voice irritated me worse than it did in Begins and I dislike the continuation of the one-note beat-em-up Batman Nolan keeps writing. I want to see the World's Greatest Detective, not just this highly trained martial artist.

And the Oscar hype was purely generated because of his death. I think the performance was average, possibly the best of the film, but I don't think it was this stand-out piece. Was it the nadir of his work had he lived? I would certainly hope not. There was attributed to it this magical aspect simply because he destroyed his life and a small cadre of journalists decided to fan the flames of whether or not he was so deep into this psycho maniac that it caused him to get depressed and overdose.

I feel that the hype turned me on the film. I feel that the first two arguments are hard to refute. Two-Face and Batman were the weak links. I attribute my issues to the hype. Not sure if there are other things are as profound as I am making them out to be and/or I am just elevating them because of the hype.
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post
Except the Oscar hype was generated BEFORE he died when the first trailer came out.
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post #3503 of 3530
7/16/10 at 10:19pm
The Dark Knight is...brilliant, but not better than...Batman Begins which is easilly...Christopher Nolan's best film! I cannot wait to hear about...Batman 3, in a future...NYCC or SDCC!
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post #3504 of 3530
7/17/10 at 9:49am
Oh man, how to allow Nolan as creative of a forum as Inception for Batman 3?Maybe Bruce gets institutionalized in Arkham? Flashbacks involving his mother would be nice considering she was such a non-character in Begins.
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post #3505 of 3530
7/17/10 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
Oh man, how to allow Nolan as creative of a forum as Inception for Batman 3?Maybe Bruce gets institutionalized in Arkham? Flashbacks involving his mother would be nice considering she was such a non-character in Begins.
Yeah, I was sorta thinking the same thing. At the same time, from what I've read, WB has been fairly hands-off with Nolan's Batman pictures (as compared to the previous batfilms, and especially compared to how Fox handles its superhero movies).

Assuming INCEPTION goes as big as it could (our own Andre is thinking $300M domestically), it's hard to imagine WB not giving Nolan carte blanche for Batman 3.
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post #3506 of 3530
7/17/10 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
it's hard to imagine WB not giving Nolan carte blanche for Batman 3.
I image he was getting carte blanche either way. Dark Knight was pretty much a carte blanche for him as well as Inception.
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post #3507 of 3530
7/17/10 at 2:46pm
If I have to see any more flashbacks about Bruce's parents, I'll vomit right in the theater. We never need to see another frame dedicated to Batman's origin, ever. Let it go, filmmakers.
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post #3508 of 3530
7/17/10 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
If I have to see any more flashbacks about Bruce's parents, I'll vomit right in the theater. We never need to see another frame dedicated to Batman's origin, ever. Let it go, filmmakers.
Actually, that's what was great about TDK, not a word about his parents not one, though it was brought to my attention a while ago that Gordon telling his son "It'll be all right" seems to function as a callback to Thomas Wayne's dying words.
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post #3509 of 3530
7/17/10 at 2:56pm
That was one of the things I loved about Dark Knight as well. It's also among the reasons that I think Batman Returns is better than its predecessor. The death of Bruce's parents is a boring story, and extremely far-fetched as a motivation for dressing as a bat. The less it's leaned on as a narrative tool, the better. Returns does reference it thematically to mirror the Penguin storyline, but it's fairly minimal.

I didn't think about the "It'll be alright" as an echo. That's kind of a cool little easter egg, since they didn't draw attention to it.
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post #3510 of 3530
7/17/10 at 2:57pm
I wasn't thinking more origin, just Bruce dealing with Rachel's death could have him flashing back to the other woman in his life.
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post #3511 of 3530
7/17/10 at 3:02pm
Anything about his parents would still constitute more origin. The last thing I want is to see more of a guy in his thirties moping about his parents. It makes the character pathetic.
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post #3512 of 3530
7/17/10 at 3:09pm
He dresses up in a batsuit and beats up criminals because his parents died. Now two other people he cared about have died. He's crazy. It makes sense for him to equate the two. This isn't a must-have, it would just be nice to have a more introspective movie after TDK lost focus on Bruce. The Joker can't be topped, so instead of going bigger go
deeper. I'm thinking Dexter season 2, with him
being his own worst enemy.
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post #3513 of 3530
7/17/10 at 3:18pm
Batman should have a psychotic break and the big twist at the end is that Batman IS the Riddler!
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post #3514 of 3530
7/17/10 at 3:20pm
I actually really liked a John Byrne comic from the early 80s when Batman was sabotaging Bruce Wayne's life. I think someone posted images from it some pages back.
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post #3515 of 3530
7/17/10 at 4:02pm
The best parts of Batman Begins were the flashbacks and origin. Can't believe that would be a complaint. It's funny how people always complain about superhero origin stories when the first halves of Superman, Spider-Man, Iron Man and Batman Begins are considered to be the best in the genre.
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post #3516 of 3530
7/17/10 at 4:06pm
I always thought Dark Knight and Spider-Man 2 were considered the best in the genre.

But for the record, the best superhero movie IS an origin story.
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post #3517 of 3530
7/17/10 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
I always thought Dark Knight and Spider-Man 2 were considered the best in the genre.
Well... along with those. Let's just say that Spider-Man 3 and Iron Man 2 aren't on any new lists.
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post #3518 of 3530
7/17/10 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
I always thought Dark Knight and Spider-Man 2 were considered the best in the genre.
I'd throw in X2 to round it out. And most would add Superman 1 or 2, although personally I've never had any interest in the character.
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post #3519 of 3530
7/18/10 at 12:14am
I thought Taxi Driver was the best superhero movie ever made.
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post #3520 of 3530
7/18/10 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post
It's funny how people always complain about superhero origin stories when the first halves of Superman, Spider-Man, Iron Man and Batman Begins are considered to be the best in the genre.
Not by anyone I've ever talked to.
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post #3521 of 3530
7/19/10 at 3:02am
This may sound sarcastic and/or smarmy, but I am asking this with complete seriousness. Does anyone think Nolan or Bale has any awareness of how much Bale's Batman voice irritates people and that there's any chance of them fixing this problem before the next movie? I wish someone at a Q & A or round table at a convention or press conference or something would have the guts to flat out tell them, but I doubt it.

Nolan has said he doesn't really read the Internet, so he's not going to find out that way, but I wonder if he'll ever find out and if he'd care. I would just be disappointed if, given four years between sequels to learn from the mistakes of the previous one, they kept that misguided choice intact.
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post #3522 of 3530
7/19/10 at 3:27am
TDK is the 6th highest-grossing movie of all time.

I really doubt they care what some whiney fan boys on the internet think.
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post #3523 of 3530
7/19/10 at 3:57am
And I don't think they should care. There seems to be this idea among Internet fanboys that films should be made by committee, and that their opinions should matter. This is an awful idea.

You get good art by hiring good artists and allowing them to do what they do. Focus grouping the wishes of thousands of fans and forming them into the narrative is how you get shitty art.

Yes, artists make mistakes, and Bale's batvoice is one of them. But I'd rather see those mistakes than two hours of fan service.
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post #3524 of 3530
7/19/10 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
And I don't think they should care. There seems to be this idea among Internet fanboys that films should be made by committee, and that their opinions should matter. This is an awful idea. [EDIT] ...But I'd rather see those mistakes than two hours of fan service.
I totally agree. You only need to look at the giant fan-wank that is Transformers 2 to see fan-service gone horribly wrong. So many easter-eggs and stupid 'myth building' because the hard-core internet fatty transformer nerds were bitching loud enough. For it's failures, Bays first TF flick was a resounding success, critically and commercially. Because he used the best of the Transformers lore (Peter Cullen included), without pandering to the fanboys too much. It all went by the wayside for 'Bigger' Bay and 'Bigger' fanservice, and look what we got?

I think, if your biggest 'gripe' is the voice that Bale uses (which I think, is great... and makes sense, from a 'real world' perspective) then you need to reassess what you enjoy in the film. Also, when watching TDK last night, it struck me how much LESS grating the voice was from the first, clearly they're pulling back on it from film to film... I guess in a way... showing Bruce Waynes comfortability and increasing confidence in his 'Batman' persona... becoming more Bat than man...
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post #3525 of 3530
7/19/10 at 1:05pm
After inception, I wouldn't mind having The Mad Hatter as the villain.
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post #3526 of 3530
7/19/10 at 1:23pm
Biggs, Transformers Revenge Of The Fallen is...better than Transformers, and I love the bigger is better approach. Unicron should, be the villain in TF3 3D! I Hope Batman 3, will be as good as Nolan's first two...Batman films.
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post #3527 of 3530
7/20/10 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post
Biggs, Transformers Revenge Of The Fallen is...better than Transformers
No.

And I agree about fanboy input. Don't use it!
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post #3528 of 3530
7/20/10 at 6:23pm
Is TF2 a load of fanwank? It certainly didn't strike me that way. It mostly felt like Bay took most of what he thought people responded to in the first movie and amped it all up based on his whims.

Fanwank doesn't make for bad movies, but I think there was something really special about the badness of TF2. It was Bay's id bottlenecked through a PG-13 rating making something truly monstrous.

EDIT: Whoops. I meant fanwank DOES make for bad movies.
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post #3529 of 3530
7/20/10 at 11:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
It was Bay's id bottlenecked through a PG-13 rating making something truly monstrous.
More this than fanwank. It was Bay following his impulses with no safety rails to reign him in.
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post #3530 of 3530
12/22/11 at 12:40pm

Wrong thread.

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