All Things Animated - Page 2

Heads up;

Ralph Bakshi's Coonskin is on youtube.

And like I said - download the torrent. Youtube? Hah. Worst way to watch a movie. Unless you are staring through Jello towards a screen.

Bakshi's American Pop is epic. The man is one of the greatest directors.

I've always seen still images of the way Disney recycled their animation for different films, but I'd never seen a video comparison of it.

http://www.koreus.com/video/disney-ressemblance.html

I think that was a conscious homage to Sleeping Beauty in Beauty and the Beast, but damn, as if I didn't think Robin Hood was creatively bankrupt already.

Wow, maybe Ive just been a naive fan all these years but I found that a bit shocking actually, and a little disappointing too.

Makes the direct lifting of images from Kimba for The Lion King make a helluva lot more sense tho.

Well, most of those examples were of Disney's cost-cutting years as a studio after Walt passed away. At least they were lifting from themselves, right? It's such good animation! How could you just use it once?! Hahah.

When the Wind Blows might have wrecked my whole month. I had to watch a few dozen videos of cute animals on youtube to make myself feel better. Holy crap, man.

Has anyone here heard of Adam Phillips? He's an Australian animator and quite a good one at that. His site's here, look into it if you like nice animation.

...To make this post a bit more on topic, is Starchaser: The Legend of Orin any good? The trailer has my interest piqued. Looks kind of like Flash Gordon crossed with Heavy Metal or something.

Not familiar with Phillips, but greatly enjoyed $9.99, another Aussie production.

As for Starchaser, it's enjoyable though derivative. Watch it in 3D if you can.

A few weeks back FilmFour showed Hoppity goes to town. I was a little disappointed by it, i admired more than enjoyed what i saw. The animation of the background and humans (how they move!) was what i expected, beautiful, yet detrimental because the main characters just looked rudimentary in comparison.

The message of the film is an important one and the ending was just great in how one image and a single line can say so much. That moment along with the swirling tin pail and lantern scenes made my jaw drop. There's a scene where Hoppity gets electrocuted which was as trippy as any pink elephant that appeared in Dumbo (which was released in the same year).

I just didn't really care for the characters, i didn't feel anything towards them. It's only recently dawned on me that my main criticism with most animated features is just that and it stops me from really enjoying them. I could probably only count on one hand the films that I return to for "character".

Hey wow, I missed this thread somehow.

Animation is both exhilarating and frustrating for me. It's a medium with so much potential that hasn't been tapped yet. You can literally do anything, yet most animated productions stick to a tiny, narrow field of narrative and visual style. Even Pixar and Miyazaki and Aardman and Henry Selick tend towards the formulaic, kid-oriented, and conventional. They all do it very well, and occasionally toy with expanding the boundaries of the medium (certainly we have Pixar to thank for getting us away from the standard "fairy tale musical" structure, even as we have them to blame for the new "buddy comedy" formula in animation), but I'm always a little disappointed that they're not really pushing the limits of what can be done.

Watching "The Thief and the Cobbler" a decade ago, even in its butchered form, really opened my eyes to how narrow even the visual scope of animated films tend to be. That was a great example of how naturally you can work the surrealism of cartoons into a more conventional story. "The Triplets of Belleville", too. In an ideal world, we'd see each animated film adopting a totally new visual style. I don't have a problem with "house styles", but I feel like Pixar, for instance, might be constraining itself a little with the fairly consistent look of its films. It would be too jarring to see a Pixar-looking movie with a different narrative style or tone.

For all their flaws, "Waking Life" and "A Scanner Darkly" really got me fired up, because they completely blew past the restraints and formulas of modern animation. Linklater made a pair of Linklater films, the films he wanted to make, which just happened to use animation. I think that might be the thing that really kicks animation in new directions: having "real" directors, ones with a distinctive sensibility, start working in the medium. That's one of the reasons I'm stoked for Fantastic Mr. Fox, too. Animation tends towards a hive mentality and a reliance on what's gone before--we need more rugged individualists.

I've also wondered, in the past, why there aren't more indie animated movies. Sure, animation tends to be expensive, but it doesn't HAVE to be if things are carefully planned out. I understand one of the reasons Pixar's costs tend to be huge is that they spend a lot of time throwing around ideas, designing characters, and working up sequences that they don't end up using, often well into production. It seems to me a more indie production could save money by really locking down the script, storyboards and animatics before going into production. Well, that, and putting the focus on the story or more basic design elements rather than technical razzle-dazzle.

Then you probably haven't seen enough Miyazaki.
No, seriously, people, if you haven't yet, you owe it to yourself to check out every Miyazaki feature. Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, My Neighbor Totoro, and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind are masterpieces, and Howl's Moving Castle is also very good. I still haven't got around to Castle in the Sky, Porco Rosso, or The Castle of Cagliostro, though.

Dude, no. No. Dude.

Admiral Shark, Porco Rosso and Castle In The Sky are...terrific films by Miyazaki. I think that...Princess Mononoke is his best, followed by...Kiki's Delivery Service, Porco Rosso, Castle In The Sky, My Neighbor Totoro and Howl's Moving Castle. I did not enjoy Nausicaa, but Spirited Away is good.

While I'd never go so far as Dreary, Bakshi did at least try and screw with the form a little when I was growing up. Stuff like Wizards and to a lesser degree more straightforward fare like his Lord Of The Rings and Fire and Ice left a big impression on me that not all animation needs to be cute and cuddly.

I also remember the amazing French animated piece from the early 70's that freaked me the hell out called La Planete Sauvage (Fantastic Planet) that was the first thing I thought of the minute I heard about the basic plto outline for Avatar. That was also a quite wonderous eye-rape for a very small boy but also married to a really deep story that actually had something to say.

That seems to be the problem these days with a lot of indie animation, there very rarely seems to be a good story to back it up. Films like Renaissance look really interesting but there's not a lot going on underneath the bonnet.

Tho I freely admit to making that statement having not seen either Waltz With Bashir or Persepolis.

I really haven't seen too many animated films since I was a young child. I find that most of Disney's Golden Age efforts are a bit too childish for me, so I've never revisited most of them. I love the two Toy Story films, but until recently (Wall-E, Up), I've found most of their work good, not great. However lately I've been getting into Wallace & Gromit shorts, so maybe it's time to check out Chicken Run.

You sound like you need to check out some Miyazaki. My advice is to try starting with Sprited Away and Princess Mononoke.

Not a bad idea, considering that I'm in love with Joe Hisaishi's score for Spirited Away. Probably should have checked the film out years ago.

A Scanner Darkly is a huge improvement from Waking Life, which I found barely watchable. A Scanner Darkly is pretty great, then again I buy into the admittedly convoluted plot.

Just saw Waltz With Bashir and the animation is fantastic. The story is good, but it plays out like a docudrama. Its broken up into segments based on interviews, then cuts to dramatizations of the war and this specific massacre which turns out to be very bloody. Totally worth seeing, if a bit manipulative.

Starting with the later films can spoil you for the earlier ones, which are less technically sophisticated. Do Totoro and Laputa first.

While Mononoke is visually dazzling, I feel that it recycles themes and ideas better articulated in Nausicaa and Laputa.

Save Porco Rosso for when you don't care who sees a grown man cry.

Fantastic Planet has been released on DVD by Masters Of Cinema - the story is good (though nothing mind blowing if you're familiar with sci-fi tropes), but I'll say the animation hasn't aged very well, very stiff and Super Friends-y in the pacing (though obviously more pretty.)

Persepolis knocked me the fuck out - a total feast for the eyes and a really great story. The thing is going on you sorta expect this dour movie about war and hatred, but even though it pulls no emotional punches, and there were some times where I was close to tears, it convinces you above all by making the main character believable and, well, fun - the scenes of Marjane imitating her childhood idols Bruce Lee and Godzilla, the bedtime discussions with God and Marx, the attempt to get Bee Gees tapes on the black market.

That being said, I've a friend who says it's pretty redundant if you've read the comic.

Waltzing With Baschir is cool, too - more traditionally franco-belgian in style.

Well if you want to go real old school Miyazaki, I'd recommend Castle Of Cagliostro first and foremost.

I feel like a terrible person but I could barely stand Persepolis. In fact, apart from the gorgeous animation, it bored me to tears.

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5170102/13674937

Mr. Head, from Japan. Wild stuff.

The Fantastic Mr Fox trailer has led me to come in here and shill Cosgrove Hall's Wind In The Willows, if you love stop motion and solid storytelling you owe it to yourself to track the box set down.

Cagliostro is interesting as an example of Miyazaki's developing style, but I find it a second-tier Lupin III adventure. It's not nearly raunchy or anarchic enough-- give me The Mystery of Mamo.

See Cagliostro wins for me almost because of that opening car chase alone.

Spielberg called it his favorite car chase scene of all time.

Haha, well, don't feel too bad. I was expecting to be bored by it going in.

I hadn't seen this before. Tom Waits, rotoscoped.

Tom Waits for no one.

I wanted to bump this thread after commenting on the abortion that is the red band trailer for the Cunted Worled of El Supershitstorm. There is good animation out there (shit Ponyo is still in theaters) and this thread has some great examples of it. I appreciate what Adult Swim is for what it is but "adult" does not have to mean poo jokes and pop culture references. Nothing wrong with tose, mind, but there is a great deal more this art form has to offer.

I almost got into a needless arguement regarding John K and Ralph Bakshi. Those guys seem to have a mutual appreciation society for one another and any arguement re: who got there first is moot. Bakshi may have lead the way but John K sure as shit made his own style. I have not really kept up with him lately. Anyone got news on any projects he has?

Edit: And I'll take responsibilty for picking the aforementioned arguement. Needlessly combative on my part. Not conducive to discussion.

It's a fair point, actually. I think that for the most part adult animation is intentionally amateurish because making things too pretty makes many viewers think it's for kids. So you get stuff like South Park (which I love) and almost all of the Adult Swim roster (again, I like/love a lot of those shows), which uses its primitive animation as a signpost of "yeah, this is for adults". I remember when The Simpsons first came out me and my family took the longest time to get into it because we just saw the animation as so fundamentally ugly - of course within today's animated sitcom standard that show is quite beautiful and well crafted!

Not saying Space Ghost or South Park (which to its credit has experimented a little) would be better shows if they had traditionally beautiful animation, but I really think shoddy animation as a default setting for adult cartoons has to be stopped.

The last thing I saw or heard of from John K was the video for "Weird Al" Yankovic's Close But No Cigar. I'd really like to see him out in front again. And Bakshi, for that matter. There are so few animation rock stars around right now. Let's not even talk about Zemeckis.

I think part of the reason raunchy animated shows are lowtech is because of their content. If they're really cheap to make, they aren't as big a risk are they?

It's arguable, but...

That's great, just reminds me how horrible are most of the Dreamwork character designs. For all the flack Avatar gets, these guys are truly horrible (and Shark tale, Antz and Bee movie are the worst in that department).

Kung Fu Panda has a good rep, right?

Well, last night was the last episode of King of the Hill ever.

(sigh)

Just received my copy of Don Hertzfeldt's I Am So Proud Of You. It's stunning.

Gandahar

I'm particularly fond of René Laloux's "Gandahar" better known as "Light Years" in its Harvey Weinstein-butchered cut. Fantastic Planet is wonderful too. It certainly boasts crude animation but I think it lends to its creep factor.

I fucking love Fantastic Planet. His short films are pretty great too. Les Escargots is actually pretty effective as a sci-fi nature amok film in minature.

Just looked up Les Escargots on youtube. I'm looking forward to watching it!

It's a pip. I have an old edition of FP on VHS from Anchor Bay with about four of his shorts. Really cool stuff. It occasionally shows up on animation collection at WalMart sandwhiched between Terry Toons and Popeye shorts. Very strange change of pace.

I also have the out-of-print Anchor Bay dvd of Fantastic Planet. I remember the shorts being included on there but I don't think I ever got around to watching all of them.

Some are better than other (big surprise, right?), but Les Escargots was my favorite then and it's my favorite now. I've never seen Light Years and certainly have never seen the uncut version (supposedly with some more "European" takes on sexuality between the characters).

Edit: here's the youtube link for Les Escargots for anyone interested.

I definitely recommend checking out Gandahar (a.k.a. Light Years). I was pleasantly surprised by it. It's just as trippy as Fantastic Planet but not nearly as convoluted.

That was still on?

I'm not being snarky. I honestly had no idea that this show was still running.

I thought it had already passed as well. I'll have to look for that episode.

I just saw...Marvel's-The Superhero Squad Show. While the title is...clumsy, (why it isn't just...Marvel's Superhero Squad?), the show itself is a cartoon that fits right in with the classic 70's era of Marvel Comics. Iron Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Thor are the mainstays with appearances by...The Silver Surfer, Hawkeye and their S.H.I.E.L.D. liason Ms. Marvel. Apparantly...Ray Stevenson is voicing...The Punisher! The heroes homebase is...the S.H.I.E.L.D Helicarrier. The villains are Dr Doom, Mole Man, M.O.D.O.K., The Abomination, The Wrecking Crew and many others. The series has characters that are...super deformed. It is often used in anime, and the characters are shorter and goofier than usual. Despite all the good things the show has, it is even too...kiddie for me.

Lasseter let slip a bit more Toy Story 3 info at the D23 expo and it keeps sounding better and better.

After Andy goes to college, Andys mom gives his toys to a preschool.

I just saw...Superman/Batman Public Enemies, and it is an...Epic tale, where Lex Luthor becomes President Of The USA. This is now the best of the...DC animated dtvs yet.