Supernatural Season 4 - Page 2

I liked this episode a lot, I'm really liking the direction they are gonna be taking.

And, next week Mitch Pileggi as grandpa Winchester should be fucking great.

Ok. Shit just got epic. Armageddon, Lucifer, seals...it's leading up to the ending of season 5 of Angel? I have no problem with that.

So, demons are evil souls corrupted, right? Like Ruby and such. Lesser demons or something. And now we have angels. So...couldn't Papa Winchester come back now as a mean motherfucking servant of God to help the boys out? Angelize him and have him fuck shit up. Before Morgan gets a big head from being awesome in Watchmen.

Dean's Seaworld joke was priceless.

Awesome stuff, love the direction they're going in (actually seems obvious really, what other event would this show build up to?) I wonder if we'll ever see some sign of Lucifer if the seals aren't all opened.

Maybe I just choose to have a little more faith in our gang

There's no way we're not going to see Lucifer in some form or another now.

My thinking is that this season will deal with the machinations of the angels in trying to stop the apocalypse. Next season will BE the apocalypse, with Sam and Dean caught between the angels and the demons.

Loved last night's episode. I thought the writers did a terrific job of haunting our grim lil' trio with their past, and not pulling any punches with it.

That last scene between Dean and Castiel ("you should show me some respect....I took you from the pit, I can put you right back") was great, and an excellent signpost for how the show's going to approach the angelic side of things.

Ghost panic room was pretty cool.

"You thought are luck was going to start changing now?"

Favorite part about this show is the fact they will have the characters say the usual cliche action stuff, but then undercut it with a line and take the piss out of it completely.

For some reason I think it's different regarding angels, besides the only way to have Morgan back on would in some sort of Obi-Wan spirit deal, as his body was burned after he died.

Ok so finally got around to seeing this(those 720p rips take forever to download, cable company really needs to get the CW in HD) and again im very impressed. Im really liking what they did with Angels. They are soldiers, grunts, no different from Sam and Dean just much more powerful.

Also they didn't punk out on me and make it super simple. The Angel made it very clear that Dean was a tool to aid him in his fight against the demons and if he gave him too much shit he would toss him away without a second thought. Using someone and then desposing of someone isn't exactly the most moral thing to do. And I also got from Ruby that Angels don't really live in a morally grey zone, they see everything very black and white and would kill her, very righteous and judgemental.

Im glad we are finally getting Lilth back in the mix. I was worried they wouldn't even bother with her anymore since it seems that she can't hurt Sam and that Angel seems to be more powerful than any demon. However including her back in and giving her a bigger purpose of trying to free lucifer is cool. But when they say free him im thinking they don't mean from hell. I mean from that conversation that Dean had with that trapped demon in season 3 she said the no one had seen Lucifer and they were awaiting his return unsure if he really exists. So it would make sense that god locked him away somewhere or maybe another demon did it and now Lilth is trying to free him. And somehow Sam would stand in the way of this right? So maybe Ruby isn't full of shit afterall.

Anyway I love where this season is head so far. One of the things I really liked about Supernatural was that instead of the world always hanging in the balance(like Buffy or Angel) it was always a much more personal story. One of the brothers was going to die and the other was trying to save him. If he died the world wouldn't suffer any more or less but the other brother would. But now that the stakes have been raised I gotta say im just as interested. Good job Supernatural, im glad I stuck with you through those first two shaky seasons.

Domingo, if you run into Kripke and the other creative forces behind this show, please give them a huge pat on the back and a high five for good measure from me.

I am absolutely 100% in love with the direction the show is taking now. It also feels like such a natural progression for the show. They hinted for quite some time now about faith, God, Heaven, etc. As an audience member, I always kinda just assumed that in the show's universe there is a heaven, but I like how Dean is questioning its existence so staunchly.

Excellent first two episodes as well. Im really pumped to see where it goes. The thing I found most intriguing was when Castiel just mentioned that 6 of his brothers had fallen recently. It made me wonder...what the hell (no pun intended!) it takes to actually take an angel down.

This show continually solidifies it's spot at the top of my must watch genre tv shows list.

^^ Times 2

Great throwback to the first episode and answering the question of why their mother knew the Yellow-eyed Demon. It's good to know they've followed the story they set out from at the start and gives promise that it's going to be a hell of a season.

Yeah, he's in this thing:

And, from what I understand, it's not all that hard to get out of.

As for last night's episode, holy hell! I have never seen a series so consistently knock its mythology episodes out of the park. I was absolutely speechless when the Yellow Eyed Pillegi snapped John's neck. And Dean arriving at the scene (by the way, was that bridge in the background the same as used in the very first "Woman in White" episode?) just in time to witness his mother's deal with Y.E.P. was heartbreaking. Which reminds me, where was Sam for this episode? Was he filming scenes for Friday the 13th? It reminded me of the "Bewitched" episode of "Buffy" where she was turned into a rat for the entire episode because Gellar was hosting "Saturday Night Live" that week. I felt like the episode (only slightly) suffered due to the loss of the Brothers Winchester dynamic, although this could be setting up a schism in their relationship.

Lastly, needless to say, I loved, loved, loved the Back to the Future homages. So good.

the show is really stepping it up this season.

Dean convincing John to buy the car was my favorite part. This show really is six types of awesome.

Looks that way!

Great episode and a GREAT show!!

Nice twist on the hunting coming from the moms side of the family. Everything I read on Pileggi being in this was he was grandpa Winchester.

Very good except for 2 points.

So Dean's (hot) mom made a deal so Dean's dad could live, got it. But during their marriage she never brought any of this up to him? And he never asked her why her dad knocked him out and when he woke up her dad was dead? Also didn't Dean actually cause this to happen? I mean from what the angel said this was always going to happen but then how would Mary have come across the demon otherwise? I know her dad was investigating it but they weren't making headway. If Dean hadn't come along and told Mary's dad where the demon was going to attack next then they wouldn't have come to save Mary's friend and the demon never would have gotten a "taste" for her. I hope all that I just typed made sense.

I don't know if I like where Sam's storyline is headed. I don't know why but it irks me that because he is using his power it means hes doing something wrong. Also Azazel is dead so what he had a plan B in case someone killed him? So maybe that plan was Ruby. If anything happens to him she is supposed to train Sam. Although now the leader of an army thing is out of the way. So Lilith is trying to bring back Lucifer, does Lucifer not get along with Azazel?

One of the better lines of the season.

Dean : "Im so going to hell for saying that....again"

It's like Castiel said, you can't change destiny. So I would think at some point Mary and her dad would have caught up to Azazel, it would have still happened.

It also brings up the idea of freewill, maybe Sam is destined to lead the demon army no matter what. Hopefully they will bring that up again in later episodes.

another awesome episode.

the twist on where the hunter genes come into the winchester family was welcomed. I also appreciate the fleshing out of YED's plan. I kinda found it interesting that the angel needed dean to find out answers for him.

Im actually starting to think that Castiel may not be as "good" as he is portraying himself to be. Im getting the feeling that he may have alterior motives as well. I also never liked the black wings that castiel showed when revealing himself to dean...it didnt feel right to me.

I imagine Lucifer's origins as a fallen angel still hold true in the show's universe...maybe Castiel is following in ol scratch's footsteps?

I've always loved this show, but now I'm getting those same tingling feelings the night before an episode that I'd get when Lost was on. Wake up, put on The Office, It's Always Sunny and Supernatural. Best morning of the week.

Yeah, every show I enjoy watching is on Thursday night. It's some sort of Mattioli entertainment vortex.

I would say that this was the first weak episode of the season. We understood the subtext that the Rugugu's (sounds made-up) situation was similar to Sam's. It didn't need to be text. I also thought Sam's decision to quit using his powers wasn't earned in the slightest.

I also don't like how Dean is not questioning the Angel's motives for insisting, in a big way, that Sam quit. He's never been the strongest believer and, although he has an interesting situation, backing the Angels before his brother seemed weak.

I can see him believing Castiel before Sam only because I think he felt somewhat betrayed Sam because of the using of his powers and Ruby. Plus I think he realizes the angels aren't fucking around.

I thought it was weakER, but not neccessarily weak, especially when the guy started his transformation and chowed down on the hunter -- that was some fucked up television. The scope was smaller this week and it was much more character driven (more so than usual), but I do think Supes does big mythology episodes better than standalones, generally speaking.

As for Sam getting there too quickly... I dunno, I thought considering the entire episode was built around that decision (with an argument about it every 2 minutes), it felt well earned to me.

While I can understand the complaints about the Rugaru/Sam mirroring being too explicit, and while I agree to an extent that Sam's decision at the end felt more telegraphed than 'earned,' I still thought that this was an effectively creepy episode.

Maybe it was the actor playing Jack, but his struggle felt uncomfortably visceral to me. Watching him go through his changes, I felt physically queasy and effectively emotionally torn about him, which ultimately saved the episode for me.

The scene where Travis apologizes to Jack, saying "I truly wish I did not have to do this" was actually hard to watch - but maybe I'd been primed for it by a drink or two beforehand. And in the pantheon of creepy/disgusting kills on this show, Jack taking a bite out of Travis ranks right the hell up there for me.

Definately not as good as the other eps so far, but this is about the point each season where the propulsion of the first few episodes gives way to more standalone, typically 'weaker' episodes - it seems to be a part of the show's natural cycle.

ETA: I'm not a fan of the woman playing Ruby this year. She's a non-entity as an actress.

Well that was borderline disappointing. I mean I liked the darkness of it to a degree but Sam giving up his powers? I never liked that storyline of Sam having powers but he can't use them. I mean really why can't he use them? I mean they have no proof that they will turn Sam evil. As a matter of fact the Angel doesn't either. I hope this isn't the end of Sam's powers or Ruby. I also hope that angel isn't quite so angelic. It would be great if the Angel was trying to get Sam to quit using his powers so Sam wouldn't be ready for some new threat but that seems doubtful.

It's a 22 episode season... we're in episode 4... I don't think it's the last of his powers or Ruby. On the contrary.

Granted we've only seen her in two or three scenes, but I suspect Ruby 2.0 may be a terribly, untalented actress.

Ehhh she isn't a terribly untalented actress exactly it's just that her attitude is off. Last season she was a tough smart ass with a wicked streak to her. Basically she was more of a demon. Now she seems like shes more of a supportive girl with a crush.

I don't know that I'd say untalented - she just seems completely wrong for what she's been given so far. She has no real menace/gravitas.

When she's given something urgent/sinister to say it comes off as petulant and/or unbelievable.

And semi-speaking of which - Domingo, can you use whatever influence you've garnered to talk the writers out of doing big emotional brother-to-brother speeches that involve a bunch of supernatural hokum? It always sounds awkward as hell coming out of their mouths, no matter how well its delivered. Arguing about Dad and who he loved more is relatable, grounded stuff.

Arguing about the demon blood inside you and speechifying about all your fears and anger at Demons and Angels comes off as exposition-central to my ears. Use the Rugaru story to comment on Dean's choice without making the subtext into text. Make use of the actors faces. They're expressive dudes. Show, don't tell, when it comes to that stuff.

Am I completely off-base with that?

Nope, I'd say you nailed it. Also I think Sam may be bullshitting Dean about not using his powers anymore. I mean, it's not like he hasn't lied to him about it before.

I doubt it, they made a big deal out of the fact that he chose it for himself blah blah. However he might have to use them at a later date for some reason or at least I hope. I dig the fact that Sam has powers and I see no reason why he can't use them.

To an extent, it seems as though the show is going with a pretty hardline philosophy of "you can't change who/what you are," and so I'd say that Sam will either voluntarily or involuntarily start up with the powers again before long.

Why the Angels want Sam stopped is another question - are they looking to prevent Lucifer's release, or are they looking to aid in it (and continue their war against God)?

Or Castiel is Lucifer.

I reeeeeeeeeeeeally hope not.

I would never have guessed that from her performance!*

And thanks for the tidbits. Seriously though - the speechifying needs to stop.





*Sarcasm detector explodes

I love love love this show. That's all I got for now.

This next episode sounds like it will be tons of fun.

The destiny VS freewill is a sticky predicament. If there is a destiny, do angels know about future outcomes? Is Sam destined to stop using his powers (by Dean's interference or by heaven's) or is Sam destined to lead a demon army? Exploring the themes of GDT's HELLBOY or BATMAN BEGINS ("It's not who you are, but what you do that defines you...").
Not made up (atleast not for this show).

I didn't notice this in here so I thought I'd throw it out there.

Dean in going back in time, caused the situation for his family to be killed and Castillio facilitated that. The guy can't be a "good" angel! Think about it. If Dean hadn't gone back, his Dad wouldn't have bought the car he was driving and his mother wouldn't have gone to the house where the yellow eyed demon got a 'wiff' of her and he wouldn't have followed them back killing his grandparents and then making the deal with his mom.

Now, since all that happened before the time traveling episode, it was fate and Castillio pushed him there... you're tellin me he's a good guy?

I also don't buy into the whole Sam shouldn't use his powers shit... Maybe I've been playing the Force: Unleashed a bit too much but they're just all sorts of awesome!

The problem is that the powers are corrupting. I agree that they're useful but I understand the concern not to use them.

He's not on the side dark. It's been said by more than one character in the show that it took real power to pull Dean out of hell, power no Demon possesses. I'm not saying that Castillio is a nice guy, but he's not in league, or is, Lucifer, that stacks the deck way to much against the Winchester boys.

He probably would do anything as God's warrior so he's not going to treat those he sees as getting in his way very nicely. We don't, and, I think it's been made clear, know why Sam has the power and his using it could mean bad things, as far as Castillio is concerned.

I think Sam can use the power in way it wasn't intended and the battle is going to be between the Winchesters with the Angels to prove it, with the other side waiting in the wings.

While I think it's possible that Castiel is Lucifer, I just think that having him be a legit angel opens up the game so much more. It also lends credence to my theory that this sets up Dean and Sam on opposite sides of the war. I don't think Sam would be on the dark side, but it would be something along the lines of "If Sam lives, then evil can triumph; if Sam dies, then good will prevail."