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Batman (1989)

post #1 of 286
Thread Starter 
I just watched this one again. One question/comment...


When Batman enters the church does he seriously stumble and knock over a whole line of pews? Seriously?!?!?!

This movie is pretty blah. It manages to be a mundane Batman film and a visually lacking Tim Burton flick. Though it does not suffer from a lack of Prince (Confession: As a child I LOVED Batdance).

"Never rub another man's rhubarb!"
post #2 of 286
I think the pew thing is supposed to give you the idea that he's disorientated from being shot down in the Batwing. In another thread, someone said they cracked themselves up during the shooting scene by imagining The Joker had magical powers and Nicholson's wild gesticulations were actually some sort of Shaman dance that diverted the missiles and bullets being fired at him. I have to admit, that is fucking hilarious Especially if you're high.
post #3 of 286
I love this flick. Sure it's got a ton of faults, but it still doesn't stop me from enjoying this flick. It's one of my favorite flicks, and far and away Michael Keaton is my favorite Batman/Bruce Wayne.
post #4 of 286
Hate this movie. But love Tracey Walter in it.

"I'LL DO GORDON!"
post #5 of 286
This movie works. Point out any flaw you want, none of them are even close to being significant enough to really hurt the movie. Not with the amazing performances (Not just Keaton, Nicholson, and motherfucking Wuhr, but every bit part from those two hoodlums in the opening to Bob the Goon), art design, and score. Fun fun fun.
post #6 of 286
It's got one of my favorite scores of all time. Danny Elfman sure made a great one here. The score is one album that I love to listen to and never get tired of it.

One seen that I really love is when Bruce Wayne suits up and goes to Axis Chemicals and destroys it using the automated function on the Batmobile. I love the whole sequence especially the music, and the single sound effect that we hear of the bomb hitting the concrete floor.
post #7 of 286
I love the overall aesthetic of the movie. The set design and use of matte paintings was outstanding and really gave the whole thing a sense of place. If there's one thing that the movie got undeniably right, it's that Gotham feels like a dirty, used city.

And while I love Keaton and feel he did the best he could with what he had (especially given the limitations of the suit) I still wish that he had been cast as the Joker like he originally wanted. I think he would have been fantastic in the role.

Rene, you're dead on about the score. The main theme is one of those that is infinitely burned into my brain.

Also, I'm probably the only person alive who doesn't hate the use of Prince in the movie. In fact, I...I kinda like it...
post #8 of 286
Prince is Joker's theme music. Joker's outlandish purpleness clashes with the dirty and used city of Gotham like Prince's music clashes with Elfman's score. It works beautifully.
post #9 of 286
Exactly. It's kind of jarring to hear it, but that's part of the whole point I think. Nothing in that city is flamboyant and outlandish except for Joker and Prince certainly accentuates that.
post #10 of 286
I love how Keaton's Bruce Wayne becomes Beetlejuice for exactly 2 lines.

I still like the movie(it's my second favorite of the 4 "main" Bat-movies), but it hasn't aged well. On the plus column against Returns, the entire movie doesn't feel like it was filmed on a soundstage(even though it probably was). Amazing production design.
post #11 of 286
heh my first experience with this movie was a random grab. i had picked out a couple of movies to rent, and it turned out one was a free rental (cartoon all stars vs DRUGS! go bush sr) so i looked to my right and all i saw was the batman logo and so i grabbed it

best random grab to this day.

Nicholson as the joker was genius (it was over the top for a reason. to contrast the darker minimal style of keatons batman)

Keaton played a great batman/bruce wayne (though after seeing beetlejuice, i'd love to have seen his joker)

the two things that always bugged me (even as a 9 year old) were
a) when batman blows up axis chemicals. Even as a kid i knew that one of the main points of the batman mythos was his unwillingness to take human life. yet that bomb had to have killed all the goons who were shooting at the mobile in the factory

and
b) missing the joker with all that ordance?? er...k.
post #12 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanthar View Post
a) when batman blows up axis chemicals. Even as a kid i knew that one of the main points of the batman mythos was his unwillingness to take human life. yet that bomb had to have killed all the goons who were shooting at the mobile in the factory
Burton's Batman kills people left and right. It's a wonder that he even tries to save the Joker.


*edit to my previous post... By "main", I mean that they are a connected 4 films, even if it is only by Commissioner Gordon and Alfred.
post #13 of 286
"What are you!?"

"I'm Batman."

Those two lines send chills of joy on me as they're delivered so perfectly by the thug and Michael Keaton. "I'm Batman" being the first line delivered by Keaton as Batman only makes it all the more awesome.
post #14 of 286
One of the most atmospheric movies I've seen. The fact that the rest of Tim Burton's stuff has a kinda sucky atmosphere implies that it was a fluke. And "Scandalous" is Prince's best-ever song. And if I had to be stuck on a desert island with any movie character, it'd be Jack Nicholson's Joker.
post #15 of 286
Anybody else remember Batman gift shops set up at Six Flags parks around the time this came out? The one I saw was modeled after Axis Chemical, with pipes spilling green liquid down through the steel grating that was the floor, where it then flowed down little reservoirs beneath shoppers' feet. I seem to remember billowing, colored smoke, too. Just a total recreation of the film's atmosphere. (It's my happy place.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
I love how Keaton's Bruce Wayne becomes Beetlejuice for exactly 2 lines.
"Come on, let's get nuts!" and what else?
post #16 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post
"Come on, let's get nuts!" and what else?
I think he might be referring to "Anybody wanna get nuts? C'mon, let's get nuts!"

Am I right?
post #17 of 286
Batman was a terrific take on the Dark Knight. Batman killing thugs, and driving an armed and armored batmobile was a great change in the character. I love that line of the Joker's "Where does he get all those wonderful toys." Danny Elfman's score is right up there with John Williams Superman, Queen's Flash Gordon, Stu Philips Buck Rogers In The 25th Century, and Michael Giacchino's The Incredibles scores as the best music for superhero cinema.

The only bad Batman films were Joel Shumacher's. The only thing I thought that could have improved Batman Returns was if Danny Devito Penguin already was the Mayor of Gotham City, and Christopher Walken's character was killed off early. Walken and Devito took up too much screen time from the best part of the film...the action/romantic te a te's between Batman and Catwoman, as well as in their identities as Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle.
post #18 of 286
Ehhh I loved the factory scene. I dig a Batman that kills people because honestly thats the only thing that makes sense. I mean he what? Knocks people out and then the police come and arrest them? I understand Batman isn't exactly set in the real world(although Nolan's is) but some things you can't ignore. The dark knight should be dark. Thats what kills me about the new Batman. They hint in the trailer that hes going to cross the line and kill the joker but you know he won't. I mean the idea that your going to lock him up and then he going to keep getting out and killing more and more people......I don't know they always pull that bullshit of if you kill a bad person your as bad as them but you letting him get out of jail 100 times and kill a bunch of people probably makes you just as bad as him.
post #19 of 286
I don't think I own a single other movie in my collection with this many flaws, fuckups, and holes that I enjoy this much. Maybe Superman II, but even that's dropping steadily in my estimation (least till somebody fan edits the Donner Cut into the original).

There has yet to be such a perfect Iconic with a capital I moment in a comic book film to even hold the jock of this.
post #20 of 286
My favourite lines:

I've recently had a tragedy in my life. Alicia...

...threw herself out of the window.


and

"Winged freak terrorizes"? Wait'll they get a load of ME!




Smylex!
post #21 of 286
Holy shit. Where are the scathing editorials about this particular strain of fanboy loyalty?
post #22 of 286
I like this film but in all honesty I think I prefer the 1960's Batman and Robin.


And for that I'm sure I'm going to hell.
post #23 of 286
It's dated as a motherfucker, but Keaton is great, and Elfman's score is still one for the ages.
post #24 of 286
I still think this is the best first movie out of the big three superheroes; Superman and Spider-Man. Sure, Superman's got that great first 30 minutes but this movie beats anything after that hands down. And Spider-Man.. come on.
post #25 of 286
User 32, I would rank Superman (the 1981 ABC edit which restored about 40 minutes to the film) as being the best of the 3. The best part of it was seeing Superman rescuing Miss Tessmacher from being dropped in Lex's pit of tigers? or something which was only included on the current dvd as an extra scene, it was not re cut into the film.
post #26 of 286
I liked the Batman *89 soundtrack by Elfman. Definitely had character but don't think it comes close to even touching John Williams Superman theme.
post #27 of 286
Ironically enough, I think this film works great until (ahem) the third act. Seriously, it goes way off the rails at the end.

And not because he's killing people, by the way. People who bitch about that need to read some of the original Batman stories. In the beginning, even Superman killed people.

But the first two acts actually hold up extremely well.
post #28 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakespeare View Post
I think he might be referring to "Anybody wanna get nuts? C'mon, let's get nuts!"

Am I right?
Pretty much. A Friend and I quote that for laughs that and "Where's the Batman right now? At home WASHIN' HIS TIGHTS?!"

Along with "This town needs an enema!"

I was reminded of this movie when Dean ran in '04. The way he grimaced seemed a bit too Joker-esque to me.
post #29 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakespeare View Post
I think he might be referring to "Anybody wanna get nuts? C'mon, let's get nuts!"

Am I right?
Yep.
post #30 of 286
I think the execution of Bruce's parents was done far more effectively in this one than in Batman Begins. You really feel for the poor lad.

On the Elfman score, my favorite piece of work is the variation on the theme when Batman flies the Wing into the third act. Shit used to give me goosebumps as a kid.
post #31 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Jim View Post
I think the execution of Bruce's parents was done far more effectively in this one than in Batman Begins. You really feel for the poor lad.

On the Elfman score, my favorite piece of work is the variation on the theme when Batman flies the Wing into the third act. Shit used to give me goosebumps as a kid.
Agree on the murder of his parents. Really effective and frightening. The shadows and angles make it all the more scary.

That piece of music when the batwing comes out is friggin' awesome, and I still remember it being surprising and really cool that he just appears with it.
post #32 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post
I like this film but in all honesty I think I prefer the 1960's Batman and Robin.


And for that I'm sure I'm going to hell.
No ticket to Hell need be purchased. Batman '66 contains the greatest line in the history of cinema:

"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Hell, on some days it's still my favorite Batman movie.
post #33 of 286
The Batmobile in this movie is still the coolest fucking car ever made.
post #34 of 286
I still remember the fucking ROAR in the theater when they revealed the Batmobile. There hasn't been a bigger straight up Hollywood moment in any of these flicks since, though the Joker card reveal in Begins came close.
post #35 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
No ticket to Hell need be purchased. Batman '66 contains the greatest line in the history of cinema:

"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Hell, on some days it's still my favorite Batman movie.
I ask myself, just who in the hell would buy that on Blu-Ray?
post #36 of 286
post #37 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
No ticket to Hell need be purchased. Batman '66 contains the greatest line in the history of cinema:

"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb."
And the single best gadget, fuck you Bond.

Bat Shark Repellent.
post #38 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakespeare View Post
I think he might be referring to "Anybody wanna get nuts? C'mon, let's get nuts!"

Am I right?
Best line ever. It's like it was spliced into the reel.
post #39 of 286
Patrick makes a really great point about the use of music in the film. I've actually had a few heated discussions over the use of Prince and I keep trying to bring up the point that for the most part the Prince stuff is diegetic as such it's stuff the Joker is actually listening to and it's as much a part of his anachronistic style as his dress sense.

I actually saw this film again a few days back for a review and was surprised by how much I liked it. The flaws are really quite glaring (it really does feel like after that aside from that first great scene and the chemical plant the first act just spins its wheels until the Joker comes into his own) and Nicholson is way too much of a dominant and charismatic force in the film but Keaton is so great as Wayne and I kind of like Basinger as a bit of a kooky love interest for Batman.

I was actually wikipediaing the production of the film, after the docs on the special editions skirted over that period, and I came across an anecdote about one of the studio rewrites being done without Burton's knowledge and the cathedral set getting built without the director knowing leading to Burton having to create a finale on top of the cathedral on the fly. Of course the veracity of that statement is in question, but the film does occasionally feel like you have four or five different visions of the same basic story all trying to fight with each other.
post #40 of 286
And Burton has said on many occasions that he was endlessly fucked with on that first film. He considers Batman Returns to be the one where they took the training wheels off and allowed him to make a Tim Burton film. And to great effect, in my opinion. You're right, the first still feels pretty fractured in a lot of places. But one thing no Batman movie will ever capture again is Anton Furst's Gotham designs. That was an incalculable loss.
post #41 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
But one thing no Batman movie will ever capture again is Anton Furst's Gotham designs. That was an incalculable loss.
No kidding. As outlandish or depressingly realistic as the future films' iterations of Gotham City became over the years, they've never remotely captured the moodiness and uniqueness of Furst's original design. It's far and away my favorite interpretation of Gotham City.
post #42 of 286
If you had only one shot to make a 2 hour representation of Batman’s 50 year history you could not do a better job than the 1989 movie. Granted a lot of things are glossed over (Batman does detective work but it’s mostly off screen, the romance) but the Batman as a vigilante, the insanity of the Joker, even some of the goofiness of the 60’s show (come on, that Batarang used in to nab that mugger by the foot was pretty cheesy)

This was also one of the best theater going experiences I’ve ever had. A theatre packed with fanboys who interacted with the movie. When the Joker leans toward the camera and says “wait’ll they get a load of me” he pauses, and everyone in the theater went “oooooo” at which point Nicholson did the same thing. It really freaked people out…lots of nervous laughter…
post #43 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I was actually wikipediaing the production of the film, after the docs on the special editions skirted over that period, and I came across an anecdote about one of the studio rewrites being done without Burton's knowledge and the cathedral set getting built without the director knowing leading to Burton having to create a finale on top of the cathedral on the fly. Of course the veracity of that statement is in question, but the film does occasionally feel like you have four or five different visions of the same basic story all trying to fight with each other.
This is true. In the book "Hit & Run" which details Jon Peters and Peter Gubers' rise in Hollywood (most of their downfall came with Last Action Hero opening the week after.. JURASSIC PARK!) there's a section that talks about that very thing (and Jon Peters driving Tim Burton out of his mind while screwing Kim Basinger out of her mind!)

From the book

"Originally, the plot called for Vicki Vale to die at the end of the movie. Jon recognized that audiences would be horrified. Without telling Burton, who liked the original approach, Jon started working out last-minute revisions. The Joker would take Vicki captive and drag her up the cathedral bell tower stairs. Batman and Vicki would end up hanging off the tower by their fingers in a gothic cliffhanger finish. The specific action had not yet been delineated but the broad strokes of the idea were clear enough - and Burton hated the change...

Because of the final-hour change, the sequence had to be largely improvised, which terrified Burton. "Here were Jack Nicholson and Kim Basinger walking up this cathedral, and halfway up Jack turns round and says, 'Why am I walking up all these stairs? Where am I going'" Burton said later. "And I had to tell him that I didn't know. The most frightening experience of my life. I knew they had to go up to the bell tower and they better do something up there. That was always a given. But what? Help me! Help me!"

Jon hired stunt doubles to play the Joker's heavies and maximize the mayhem. Meanwhile, Burton focused on getting some kind of footage with the lead actors that he could cobble into a coherent sequence. He was ultimately pleased with Batman's climax, but he doesn't recommend that kind of last-minute hysteria. "There was just no time for me to work on it," he says. "I was basically reacting to other people's ideas and then trying to come up with stuff on my own. Hollywood is very control-oriented place, and if people want to feel in control, a very easy way to bring control back to yourself is to create chaos. Because if you're the one creating chaos, then you're the one who has to fix it. And on some level, that may be true with Jon."

Here's one where Jon Peters pissed off Jack Nicholson.

"Money was also the issue in a flap over the top-of-the-line black leather crew jackets, which displayed the Batman logo on the back. Nicholson had made a verbal agreement with Jon to split the cost of the jackets over and above the $10,000 allotted in the budget. But when a bill arrive for $100,000, Jon reneged.

Batman's production manager, Nigel Wool, told Nicholson that it would cost him $90,000 to cover the cost. Nicholson stormed over to Basinger. "Tell that guy whose cock you've been sucking for the past six months that he's an asshole for not paying for the jackets!" he snapped. That, at least, was the story that made the rounds in Hollywood for months."

Here's my favourite..

"On Monday morning, the trades trumpeted joyful news: Batman had taken in $42.7 million at 2,100 screens, breaking ever record in motion picture history. Within ten days it grossed more than $100 million, another record.

In predictable Hollywood style, a chorus of voices claimed credit. The loudest was Jon Peters, who blustered to anyone who would listed that he had written, directed, cast and singlehandedly marketed the film."
post #44 of 286
I assume Burton is the one who lobbied for Keaton? If yes, WB (and Peters) extended him a shit-ton of faith at that point.
post #45 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
I assume Burton is the one who lobbied for Keaton? If yes, WB (and Peters) extended him a shit-ton of faith at that point.
You would think but according to the book..

"In early casting discussions Burton considered square-jawed heroic types such as Tom Selleck to play Batman. Jon Peters favored Michael Keaton, arguing that the actor had the right edgy, tormented quality. Having directed Keaton in Beetlejuice, Burton was persuaded. Jon faced considerable resistance to Keaton from Semel and Daly, but they finally agreed."
post #46 of 286
I find it really hard to believe that Keaton wasn't Burton's idea.

And if that's true, it means that Tom Selleck has failed to get most of the major Blockbuster starring roles of the 1980s.
post #47 of 286
Given how Peters allegedly wanted Sean Penn for Superman, I find it very easy to accept Keaton was his idea, though like Spike I doubt it was.
post #48 of 286
I think some of you are putting more thought into the inclusion of Prince's music than the filmmakers actually did.
post #49 of 286
I doubt that. That scene in the museum makes it fairly explicit that Prince was Joker's intended (and self-appointed) theme music. Was part of the Prince selection due to the fact that he was a hip artist on the Warner Brother's label? Of course. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work.
post #50 of 286
If that makes you able to stomach the Prince songs in the film, then more power to you. For me, they were jarringly intrusive and not very good on top of it.

Didn't like this film back in '89, don't like it now.
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