Tombstone (1993) - Page 2

Would hip hop count?

That's very true, but ultimately I think the genre is expansive enough and contains enough variations that it is its own thing. I'm especially thinking how western stories/films were still very popular as the form was coming into its own in the 30s and 40s. Maybe that's true today as the detective novel is more accessable than a Western novel is, but I think it's unfair to both genres in the end.

And if we're going "detective novels are modern Westerns," then no, hip hop doesn't count, because that music has a rich ancestry in rock, jazz, the blues, et al., that you could argue the genre is a continuation of all that.

If you don't count hip hop you can't count the American Musical. Plays, music, opera, the corps de ballet, the commedia d'ell arte... all the things that gave birth to musical theater come from other cultures.

As I believe the Musical merits mention as an original American art form, so does hip hop. Actually, I'd defend hip hop any way.

I'll be watching this movie soon. Didn't know it existed till 2 minutes ago. Hell of a cast.

Also, guess Avatar answered your question regarding Stephen Lang, right Phil?

Sure. I was glad to see him working in Avater; I was glad to see him acting in Public Enemies.

I defend both these things, but I was playing devil's advocate in response to Cameron's point about the detective novel descending from the Western.

I was kind of taken aback by this. I don't know how the hell you went this long without knowing about the movie, but you're in for a treat.

I got the blu-ray recently and watched the movie all the way through for the first time in over a decade. It's such a badass movie. It just oozes with machismo.

At least you know Jeremy ain't gonna give you an ounce of shit.

I saw the bluray, stunning. As for the film, the cast is incredible and it's a great piece of fun. The story is kind of a mess and it lacks a real climax.
But Kilmer, Elliot, Biehn and Lang are flat out fantastic here.

Yeah, can't believe you had never heard of it Tati. There's an interesting story behind the scenes. Kurt Russell says he actually directed lots of the movie - or at least consulted with the director - and that he owns loads of deleted scenes and one day might put together an ultimate director's cut.

Found it. Long but fascinating:

"said to George [Cosmatos], “I’m going
to give you a shot list every night, and that’s
what’s going to be.” I’d go to George’s room,
give him the shot list for the next day, that
was the deal. “George I don’t want any
arguments. This is what it is. This is what
the job is.”
“Yeah, absolutely.”
I got him from Sly Stallone—called up
Sly, said I need a guy. Sly did the same thing
with Rambo 2 with George. And I said to George, “While you’re alive George, I won’t
say a goddamn thing.”

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/image...06/russell.pdf

And here's Stephen Lang's take:

thatfilmlover: Love Tombstone, Stephen, but there were lots of rumours about it being a troubled shoot and Kurt Russell taking over and directing the movie. Can you elaborate on what happened?
Well, Kevin Jarr who wrote the film - and wrote it brilliantly, I might add - was relieved of directing duties about three weeks into the film. So the film gets marked lousy. They coulda shut us down, but Kurt interceded, and of course he has a long relationship with Disney. Kurt went to bat for the movie, said 'We want to do this movie'. It's not easy to find a director to take over mid-stream this way, but the late George Cosmotos came in, and he is a shooter. Marvellous with a camera. But he admitted himself that he didn't know a whole lot about Tombstone in 1880, and he was learning on the job. Everyone of us who were in the show were well-versed in it, and knew the story well, and there was a very very strong, in every sense, group of actors.

So while it's George's movie, George directed it, no question, the principal players, principal actors, with Kurt being certainly the first among equals, were never shy about weighing in on what needed to be done. It all worked out fine
http://www.empireonline.com/intervie...w.asp?IID=1030