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Through the Wormhole! Questions about Black Holes

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I know there are some pretty smart people who frequent these boards, and I have a science-based question for them:

What's the deal with black holes? Kind of sounds silly. I'm in a position where I have to produce a fairly innocuous paper concerning black holes and space-time, something I agreed to do because I have a very basic understanding of the background. But if anyone has any particular insight, knowledge, theories or suggestions in this area, I would certainly appreciate not only the help, but the conversation.

The basics I have so far: supermassive star collapse into a blackhole, supermassive blackholes at the center of galaxies (something that remains strange and confusing to me), event horizons and their effect upon space-time (hazy, at best), and black hole distribution. There's so much more that can be considered: white holes, wormholes, where do they go, how they affect time and space. This kind of thing has always been fascinating to me, but my grasp on it is not comprehensive, to say the least. Anyone wanting to spread the POWER OF KNOWLEDGE, I will be here patiently listening.

Bonus! I think it would be fun to include a section about black holes in film.
post #2 of 11
Re movies: Event Horizon obvious choice.

Re main. Wormholes are supposed to serve as propellers at the center of galaxies.
post #3 of 11
Why is this in the Chewers Forum?
post #4 of 11
'Cause black holes is people, too!

From what I remember back in my many science classes, as well as my worship of all that was Carl Sagan and Cosmos, black holes are the cores of collapsed stars whose gravity is so strong that NOTHING, not even light, escapes. Light actually bends down - if you were somehow able to stand on a "black hole" and shine a flashlight, the beam would curve straight down to the ground.

Space-time is screwed with as well - if you were falling into a black hole, you would experience time much differently than if anyone was watching your fall. Time would pass normally for you, but anyone watching would see you falling forever. Provided you could survive the awesome gravity of the black hole crushing you into nothingness as well as the hard radiation involved, you might somehow warp through space-time and wind up elsewhere in the universe.
post #5 of 11
From what I've read and watched worm-holes, NOT Black Holes, are strictly theoretical at this point. The basic theory is that they serve as "short-cuts" to other places in both the galaxy and the universe. Due to the immense size and distance that space entails some physicists argue that worm-holes would be the only means that would enable one to travel to various points in the galaxy and indeed the universe.

I would Google/YouTube Michio Kaku, one the world's leading physicists on all things re: Black Holes, Worm-Holes, Time travel, et.al. I had the pleasure to hear Dr. Kaku speak at Cal Tech a few months back and it was quite an experience.
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy225 View Post
Provided you could survive the awesome gravity of the black hole crushing you into nothingness as well as the hard radiation involved, you might somehow warp through space-time and wind up elsewhere in the universe.
That's a big amount of X ray involved. Zhukov find out about dark matter too.

My first post was about black holes sorry
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Dr. Kaku - awesome.

I put it in this forum because . . . I couldn't think of what other forum to put it in.

Dark matter, as far as I can tell, is just screwiness. Big gaping holes in our working model. Is it more likely that the universe is mostly negative energy, unseen in its entirety? Or maybe our understanding of how the universe is put together is fundamentally wrong?

One thing that confuses me: if the density of the black hole allows nothing to escape its gravity, whats the deal with gamma emission? Is information destroyed (or created) by black holes? What about thermodynamics!
post #8 of 11
Well, for Thermodynaics you have to follow the laws.

The first law of Thermodynamics is...you never talk about Thermodynamics.
The second law of Thermodunamics is...you never talk about Thermodymaics.
post #9 of 11
Movies: Event Horizon and The Black Hole (not for any semblance of reality, but just for fun)

Stellar black holes and the supermassive galaxy hearts are different entities (sorry if this runs long)

Stellar black holes are the remains of stars that had approximately 1.4 solar masses remaining after the star goes supernova at the end of it's lifetime. Less than that, the star settles down into a white dwarf (there was one exception to this rule, found in 2003, that had such a rotational speed that it was actually able to violate this law momentarily). Between 1.4 and 2.1 solar masses, it will form a neutron star (a core made entirely of neutrons, rapidly spinning which is seen by us as a pulsar) which can spin over 700 times a second. Between 2.1 and ~5 masses there is a theoretical star called a quark star that has never been observed (though there are 5 candidate x-ray sources).

Above this, and the inward gravitational collapse of the remaining matter cannot be stopped and a singularity is formed, a point of infinite density and mass (think Keanu Reeves' brain). What we see as a black hole is actually the event horizon at which point the speed to get away from the singularity = C (the speed of light). Any matter closer to the singularity than the event horizon is effectively cut off from ever being observed and in on an inward path to the singularity and it being crushed out of existence. From our point of view, anything falling toward an event horizon is slowed down and shifted ever increasingly redder color (red-shifted) until the moment it hits the event horizon at which point from our point of view it would seemingly freeze forever (actually this point would be sooner to when it was shifted out of our ability to see it, but that's a minor point). It is realistically impossible to ever observe directly a singularity unless you are inside the event horizon, thus giving rise to Stephen Hawking's phrase "Nature abhors a naked singularity" (there is a theoretical construct where it is possible to view a naked singularity, but it really has no real word application)

What we view as radiation from a black hole are binary vacuum fluctuations, essentially pairs of random particles that pop in and out of existence at random times and places in a vacuum, at the event horizon where one particle falls in and the other one escapes. Through this method, a black hole will eventually evaporate and explode (which is one hypothesis of the Big Bang theory).

Finally a black hole takes on the characteristics of the star that formed it in terms of spin, so in fact, it is possible for the singularity to not be a point but a ring that it is possible (theoretically) to pass through without being destroyed. This gives rise to the theoretical construct of a wormhole and a white hole that all matter passing through the ring singularity would re-emerge from. Although one has never been seen.

(takes a breath)

Galactic Nuclei on the other hand have several million or even billion stellar masses crammed into them. There are competing theories on if they formed before the galaxies or after but that's another debate for another time. At this point, most Nuclei are mostly inactive as they have swallowed all of the matter they have the ability to, the rest of the galactic matter having settled into orbit (though they are black holes, in essence, they act the same way as the sun to us in terms of gravity and orbit, in fact, if the sun suddenly became a black hole, it wouldn't affect our orbit at all, since the mass is the same as it was before).

What we observe as Active Galactic Nuclei are the central black holes that are once again active through wither galactic collisions or because some matter was knocked out of its orbit and sent on a path into the accrecion disk of matter falling in to the hole. When matter falls into the Heart, most of it is destroyed, but some of it is shot out of the poles as what we observe as the galactic central jets. (you also have to remember that we observe these galaxies as they were hundreds of millions of years ago and not how they are today because of how long it takes for the light to reach us).

There is of course a lot more to this, but that's a good quick and dirty intro
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Dr. Kaku - awesome.

Is it more likely that the universe is mostly negative energy, unseen in its entirety?
Or maybe our understanding of how the universe is put together is fundamentally wrong?

One thing that confuses me: if the density of the black hole allows nothing to escape its gravity, whats the deal with gamma emission? Is information destroyed (or created) by black holes? What about thermodynamics!
Misc Culture.
Re Dark matter: Yes
Re Information: Yes
Keep fueling the thread.
post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Is information destroyed (or created) by black holes? What about thermodynamics!
Information falling into a black hole is not destroyed, but completely jumbled so as to have no meaning.

Think of it as taking Stephen King's "The Stand" and randomly arranging all of the letters and numbers that make up the story into a pile. Nothing was lost in terms of the amount of information, but the meaning of it is pretty much gone forever, thus thermodynamic law is maintained, no energy or information is lost and entropy is increased
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