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Comeuppance!

post #1 of 37
7/28/08 at 10:35am
Thread Starter 
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/28/...ing/index.html

Quote:
KNOXVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- The man being questioned by police in a deadly church shooting was a "nice guy" who became upset when the subject of religion came up, according to his neighbors.

Jim Adkisson's neighbors in a Knoxville suburb described him as quiet and helpful, but sensitive about certain topics.

"I was telling him about my daughter graduating from Bible college and I was a Christian and stuff, and he just automatically almost turned angry," neighbor Karen Massey told WVLT-TV, a CNN affiliate.

"He was angry with his parents because they had made him go to church all his life," she told the station.

"When the subject of religion came up, it set off like a light in him or something I noticed," Massey told WATE-TV, another CNN affiliate. "And at that point I thought I'd never bring up religion again."
FINALLY, atheists may have their own crazy gunman slash killer guy. See what happens when you don't believe in God and attend church? You, uh, end up killing for religion.
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post #2 of 37
7/28/08 at 10:38am
You know what's weird, though? He shot people at a Unitarian Universalist church, one of the most liberal, welcoming spiritual practices available. It's like he completely missed his own point.
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post #3 of 37
7/28/08 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
It's like he completely missed his own point.
Missing their own point is usually typical for stark raving lunatics, though.
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post #4 of 37
7/28/08 at 10:51am
Yeah, but they tend to have a knack for the symbolic gesture. This was just stupid.
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post #5 of 37
7/28/08 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
You know what's weird, though? He shot people at a Unitarian Universalist church, one of the most liberal, welcoming spiritual practices available. It's like he completely missed his own point.
Exactly. You don't even have to be spiritual, in fact. Atheists often go to Unitarian Universalist churches.

Boy, I bet his face is red right now.
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post #6 of 37
7/28/08 at 11:03am
Maybe it's more proof that without god's guidance you will never accomplish anything in life.
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post #7 of 37
7/28/08 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
Maybe it's more proof that without god's guidance you will never accomplish anything in life.

Hmmm...let me see, happily married, wonderful three month old daughter, own my own business, am successful in my chosen profession, lots of friends, and generally a very contented person. I guess I disprove that theory.
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post #8 of 37
7/28/08 at 11:19am
Do I need to create a catch-all church shooting thread?
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post #9 of 37
7/28/08 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
Hmmm...let me see, happily married, wonderful three month old daughter, own my own business, am successful in my chosen profession, lots of friends, and generally a very contented person. I guess I disprove that theory.
Until you shoot up a few people.
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post #10 of 37
7/28/08 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/28/...ing/index.html



FINALLY, atheists may have their own crazy gunman slash killer guy. See what happens when you don't believe in God and attend church? You, uh, end up killing for religion.
You might want to calm down on the "finally." The worst mass murderers in history--e.g. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, and Mao--were all athiests. In terms of just whacko shooters, Dylan Klebold and most of the "troubled youths" who have shot up their high schools and universities haven't been churchgoers, unless I missed something. Timothy McVeigh not only didn't seem to have a religious basis for his actions but recited fucking "Invictus" during his execution. It always irritates me when people act like religious people have the market cornered on violent psychopaths and you can bring up these examples. (Especially when you also reflect on the fact that, locally and globally, atheists represent a rather small minority group in the overall population and you can bring up the above examples and others. Proportionally, the "rational" community seems to be at least as extreme and violent as the "religious whackjobs," if not more.)
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post #11 of 37
7/28/08 at 11:46am
Hang on a sec. Hitler was way confused, but by no means an atheist. His beliefs were shifting, ranging from Christian to... unknown, but was NOT an atheist.
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post #12 of 37
7/28/08 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sackley View Post
Hang on a sec. Hitler was way confused, but by no means an atheist. His beliefs were shifting, ranging from Christian to... unknown, but was NOT an atheist.
The main religious trends in the Nazi party were twisted idealizations of Germanic paganism. During the Nuremberg prosecution, the plans of the Nazi Party to switch its focus to systematically eradicating Christianity after the Holocaust were well documented. There are many sources that attribute public and private statements that are deeply critical of Christianity and religion in general to Hitler. For some reading and links to other sources--including Hitler's take on Christ, or "Postive Christianity"--go here.
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post #13 of 37
7/28/08 at 12:01pm
Wow. You two managed to Godwin the thread after only 11 posts. That has to be a new record.
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post #14 of 37
7/28/08 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulain View Post
The main religious trends in the Nazi party were twisted idealizations of Germanic paganism. During the Nuremberg prosecution, the plans of the Nazi Party to switch its focus to systematically eradicating Christianity after the Holocaust were well documented. There are many sources that attribute public and private statements that are deeply critical of Christianity and religion in general to Hitler. For some reading and links to other sources--including Hitler's take on Christ, or "Postive Christianity"--go here.
No matter what his thoughts on Christianity at any given point (either expressed publicly or privately), it sure sounds like he always believed in some sort of creator figure. He wasn't an atheist.
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post #15 of 37
7/28/08 at 12:19pm
I just hope that no one's seriously suggesting that either being an atheist or being religious predisposes one to committing atrocities. Either belief system is capable of condoning it, given enough twisting, and even if it were true, it would be impossible to prove.

I would also take issue with the way the topic has been framed by the nature of the thread, but I realize I might be too sensitive regarding this kind of thing.
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post #16 of 37
7/28/08 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendrix View Post
I would also take issue with the way the topic has been framed by the nature of the thread, but I realize I might be too sensitive regarding this kind of thing.
Please don't kill anyone.
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post #17 of 37
7/28/08 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
Please don't kill anyone.
I have to admit, my trigger finger was a little itchy.
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post #18 of 37
7/28/08 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulain View Post
The main religious trends in the Nazi party were twisted idealizations of Germanic paganism. During the Nuremberg prosecution, the plans of the Nazi Party to switch its focus to systematically eradicating Christianity after the Holocaust were well documented. There are many sources that attribute public and private statements that are deeply critical of Christianity and religion in general to Hitler. For some reading and links to other sources--including Hitler's take on Christ, or "Postive Christianity"--go here.
You sure are a touchy fellow/lady.
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post #19 of 37
7/28/08 at 1:38pm
Wow, a link to Wikipedia. Thanks.

Still, not an atheist. Disagreeing with - or even hating - your Christian/Catholic upbringing does not an atheist make. For more, please go here.
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post #20 of 37
7/28/08 at 2:08pm
Incidentally, Yahoo is reporting that the killer was angry at the UU's liberality:

Police: Man shot churchgoers over liberal views.
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post #21 of 37
7/28/08 at 2:09pm
I just saw that, nekkerbee. Seems to conflict with the original reports to some extent.
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post #22 of 37
7/28/08 at 2:41pm
So, NOT an atheist. They didn't conform to Old Testament conservatism enough.

Take THAT you Ca-razy Xtians!

Now Liberal haters have (yet another) crazy gunman!
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post #23 of 37
7/28/08 at 2:42pm
Even so, Cuchulain had a point. I'm not sure if I'll be invoking Sodwin's Law or something, but just look at the massive levels of culling in Soviet or Maoist society or the Khmer Rouge. People need to accept that humans aren't driven to kill purely by religion specifically, but by principles.
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post #24 of 37
7/28/08 at 2:46pm
Come on, Stormin, it's just so much more fun (and far easier) when we can say that a crazy belief of a man in the sky drove them to craziness.
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post #25 of 37
7/28/08 at 2:50pm
Do what He says or you'll burn in Hell. Oh, and He LOVES you.
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post #26 of 37
7/28/08 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
Do what He says or you'll burn in Hell. Oh, and He LOVES you.
Mr. Carlin's greatest line?
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post #27 of 37
7/28/08 at 3:23pm
I thought he was referring to the Comedian!
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post #28 of 37
7/28/08 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
Mr. Carlin's greatest line?
Definitely one of them, that's for sure. I hate that we now live in a post-Carlin world.
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post #29 of 37
7/28/08 at 3:36pm
Yeah, that's pretty great how some random murderous asshole gunned down a bunch of innocent people in a church.

Also my answer would change if it were Catholic priests.
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post #30 of 37
7/28/08 at 3:42pm
It makes you wonder, REALLY WONDER, just how many people out there are THIS close to snapping and going berzerk.
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post #31 of 37
7/28/08 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
It makes you wonder, REALLY WONDER, just how many people out there are THIS close to snapping and going berzerk.
All they need is a little push. Having half their face burned off, their fiancee incinerated, or the voice in their head get slightly louder would probably be enough.
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post #32 of 37
7/28/08 at 3:51pm
Alternate thread title:

"When message board meltdowns happen in real life"
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post #33 of 37
7/28/08 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
KNOXVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- The man being questioned by police in a deadly church shooting was a "nice guy" who became upset when the subject of religion came up, according to his neighbors.

Jim Adkisson's neighbors in a Knoxville suburb described him as quiet and helpful, but sensitive about certain topics.

"I was telling him about my daughter graduating from Bible college and I was a Christian and stuff, and he just automatically almost turned angry," neighbor Karen Massey told WVLT-TV, a CNN affiliate.

"He was angry with his parents because they had made him go to church all his life," she told the station.

"When the subject of religion came up, it set off like a light in him or something I noticed," Massey told WATE-TV, another CNN affiliate. "And at that point I thought I'd never bring up religion again."
All this material seems to have been excised from the CNN story. Maybe this Karen Massey person had her own preconceived notions? Seems like there's always someone leaping to the conclusion there's an atheist or anti-religious sentiment involved when a shooting rampage happens (see Columbine & Virginia Tech).
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post #34 of 37
7/29/08 at 12:00am
Thread Starter 
Er...I am an atheist myself.

These violent acts are capable of people regardless of creeds...

Killing someone because they're religious or aren't religious or are of the wrong religion is wrong...

And unfortunately, it seems like this bloody rampage doesn't look good for anyone, believers and non-believers alike.

Weird!
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post #35 of 37
7/29/08 at 3:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
Er...I am an atheist myself.
Yeah, I was referring to the chick with the hearsay in the article.
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post #36 of 37
7/29/08 at 2:46pm
Thread Starter 
Forgive my egomania.
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post #37 of 37
7/31/08 at 2:25am
I grew up in Knoxville, & as much as I hate to say it, I'm almost surprised that something like this didn't happen sooner. Loads of crazy, backwards, bible-thumping rednecks in that town.
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