Lost Season 5 (pre-season links and speculation) - Page 6

Does a happy dance.

I've just got a quick question for anybody who's taken a gander at the DVD/Blu-Ray for season 4... Is the pop-up stuff on there at all? I saw a bit of the pop-up episode on TV last night and it made me wonder. I always thought that would be a great feature to ibnclude on the DVD/Blu-Ray version. I checked the packaging and popped in a disc but I was unable to find anything. I figured at the least they could work it in as a subtitle track... I'm hoping I'm just a dummy who couldn't find it, but if it's really not there there I am somewhat disappointed. It would have been fun to be able to revisit the series that way.

Regarding all that time-travel stuff that will be appearing this season there is an interesting interview with Cuse and Lindelof in the Chicago Tribune (Warning: mild spoilers in the article):

Although I am wary about time travel in regards to this show the writers have more than earned my full trust by now like others have said. And the bolden part makes me even more happy.

So only about a week to wait. Dammit!

I always took it as they changed the particular scene, but never the overall movie. But two things: they have my complete and utter attention and the time travel can't be any worse than Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Yeah, I see it the same way as Doc. They changed the How, but not the What.

How Charlie dies was manipulated. That Charlie dies could not be manipulated.

I agree. And I think it is important to note that the faith vs. science theme of the series is on full display in regard to this issue at hand. I am not pretty sure that the rule of time travelling and predetermination have been laid out to give an definite answer yet.

I think there is more than enough space for manouvering left to give as an satisfactory answer for all of these. And afterall everything related to time issues is bound to be nitpicked to pieces anyway. Which is half of the fun.

But it was. Of course Charlie's going to die; even if they were rescued and he lived a long, quiet life he'd have eventually got old. At the moment, there is no reason why it would be possible to change the future on a small scale but not a large one, or any indication of what constitutes large or small. Leading the freighter that never would have found it to the island seems like a pretty big deal to me.

We have discussed that for pages and surely will for the season to come. I never alluded to retconning anything but something is still an unknown variable here. As Mrs. Hawking stated in The Economist (Thanks Lostpedia):
I am not saying I have an absolute answer for that but in this condurum might be the answer to Charliies paradox as well.

You're right (as is Diva in the comment above), in that keeping Charlie alive allowed him to be the one to call for help.

But where we differ (for now, until the show resolves, or fails to resolve, the question) is in what that means regarding the 'rules.'

To explain: The way I see it, when you meddle with the flow of things as Desmond did in season 3, the details change but the larger picture remains the same. Had Desmond not kept Charlie alive, someone else would have made that call, or the freighter would have found another way to the Island. The pieces are rearranged, but the future-picture remains the same.

I'm really looking forward to this thread once the season begins - you guys are a great group to talk Lost with.

One thing's (almost) certain: No matter what the answer ends up being, I'm going to enjoy the ride. I've enjoyed, and bought into, nearly every aspect of this show including the oft-maligned second season/third mini-season.

I'm sort of shocked by how confident I am on the show's behalf.

Although it does get discussed a lot on these threads (sometimes a little TOO much), the fate vs. free will debate is one of Lost's most compelling issues, and I haven't seen it discussed as thoroughly or thoughtfully anywhere else. Thanks, Chewers! Heck, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around all the details some of the time.

On a slightly unrelated note (possible mild spoiler):

Is it my imagination or did we see Penny having a baby in one of the trailers? So is Desmond a daddy now? Does he have to bring the kid/Penny back with him to the Island? Is Sayid out to kill the baby as well? That makes me wonder if Ji Yeon is coming along too.

Looking forward to 3 hours (if that's right) of Lost goodness next Wednesday!

I got to watch the premiere early and all I'm going to say cause I don't wanna spoil it for anyone is that it's awesome.

CURSE YOU, KID!!!!! Can you at least tell us HOW awesome????

If you guys want spoilers I'll throw some out. They explain what Linus did in moving the Island. They jump right in with the same sense of urgency the show had during season 4. There isn't a lot of time wasted here. Jorge Garcia continues to impress. I feel I can be pretty confident in saying that they won't stretch the O6's return throughout the whole season.

Oky Doky, I'm honestly sorry I thought I was being pretty vague there. I worded that post horribly and wasn't thinking. I was really just trying to answer Ady and shouldn't have started with that sentence. It makes what follows it sound a lot worse when I was just excited. Now I feel like an asshole.

He seriously is a kid in a helmet if he needed to be reminded to invisotext spoilers. Fucking nimrod...

He didn't really give anything away. Just breathe easy now.

By the way, when the show starts...do we keep this thread or start a new one?

Sounds like a plan to me.

You could say that if the freighter wasn't supposed to get to the island, then maybe THAT is yet another event the universe has to course-correct for. You could go on and on with this forever if you wanted, which is part of the fun, and I think, part of what they intend the viewer to do.

Really good point, Joey - and I think that Lindelof/Cuse/et al have definately, intentionally woven these sorts of arguable ambiguities/open questions into the show so that the show will live on after its concluded and be debated (ala Twin Peaks, or one of their stated inspirations, Watchmen).

I don't think they've "admitted that there's plot-holes."

One thing I definitely thing they have admitted though, is that they're not going to wrap everything up into a nice, neat bow at the end.

Also, there's an intentional ambiguous nature to everything on the show that I think most of us really love. There is no black and white on the show, and lots of shades of gray. I've always thought that was one of the main themes. People who seem like squeaky clean heroes, aren't always so nice. And people who seem totally evil tend to have their reasons.

Yes, there's "rules" to the time travel/"changing" the future, but they're also not so specifically spelled out that you could call Desmond saving Charlie a few times a "plot hole."

What are you considering these "plot holes?"



In reference to the time travel stuff thusfar, specifically from The Constant, how did you all take the note Daniel read from himself at the end? Did the note about "Desmond will be MY constant" just "appear" after Desmond went "back" and met up with him? Or was it there all the time, and the fact that the note was there guided him to tell Desmond to meet up with him at Oxford? Or, did Daniel remember meeting him (I certainly don't think this happened) and thus, directed him to go back and do what needed to be done?

I think those of us poking at the time travel stuff are saying there are holes in the rules as presented by the old lady. We're kind of expecting that she wasn't entirely forthcoming about it, but if that is what they actually go with, then it doesn't make much sense at all.

In line with what Diva said before me I´d speculate that Daniel wrote that down some time after Desmonds visit at Oxford. I reckon he knows more about the island than we have seen so far and that will be told in the forthcoming season. Or rather knew since this will likely play into his memory loss issue that has been aluded to in season 4. So basicly he realizes that Desmond is his constant prior to his assignment to the island, writes that in his diary and after his phonecall with Desmond on the freighter he scans his diary because of some feeling vague remembering and discovers his old entry.
\Speculation mode off.

Yeah, I don´t think it is Island related as well but rather stems from his experiments. After all his very first appearance is him crying over the crash of flight 815 without knowing why. So his memory loss is already in place at that time.

I am really looking forward to get to the backstories of the "Naomi" team. Especially Faraday of course. It seems that he and Charlotte have some personal connection to the island already. Furthermore since it seems that the island is somehow travelling in time Miles ability to talk to dead people might finally make sense and be a useful capacity.

Damn, the rabbit whole is really deep in this series...

I wonder if the catastrophic consequences of Desmond not following in this particular path to the Island was that things would be worse if a course correction was needed to get him to the Island. Maybe the course correction itself could cause other problems. Maybe if he got there later he wouldn't be able to turn the key to dissipate the magnetic energy.

I thought by "breaking," Lindelof meant nailing down all the possible time-travel troubles. He uses the same word in this context when saying it took all the writers five weeks to do "The Constant".

Speaking of "The Constant", I just watched it again and was amazed all over again, not only because it was so sweet but because of how well they were able to mix the time-traveling with the character's emotions. So to hear Cuse say this makes me all happy:

Thanks, Nicholas. I was about to say the same thing (been away from the thread since Friday).

I think some were interpreting "breaking" differently. They didn't mean "breaking the rules," they meant 'cracking the logistics/making sure all the logic is sound (as it can be).'



edit: damn, Diva. Thank you. You and Jan really solidified my thinking on Faraday, his journal, and his memory loss. It hadn't all "clicked" like that for me yet. Makes perfect sense, and given their sometimes shadowy/less detailed way of explaining things on the show, that sounds about right.

"Lost" returns tomorrow night! I'm so fucking excited, man. Who will start the regular Season 5 thread?

I nominate Diva.