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Lucas Shifts into Sith Gear, Teases Indy 5 - Page 2

post #51 of 297
7/30/08 at 10:31pm
American Graffiti ain't a poke in the eye, either.
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post #52 of 297
7/30/08 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
At this point, I think Lucas is only making movies to piss off his former fans!
Seriously. How many feature-length commercials must he projectile vomit onto screens before he steps back and assesses the damage he's doing to once beloved franchises? As many as people are willing to pay to see, apparently.
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post #53 of 297
7/30/08 at 11:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Seriously. How many feature-length commercials must he projectile vomit onto screens before he steps back and assesses the damage he's doing to once beloved franchises? As many as people are willing to pay to see, apparently.
You seem to be working on the premise he gives two flying fucks what any of us think.

In interviews he seems to almost relish pissing off his older fanbase
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post #54 of 297
7/30/08 at 11:31pm
The public dis of Spielberg is a shocker. Can you see him working with Lucas again?
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post #55 of 297
7/31/08 at 12:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
You seem to be working on the premise he gives two flying fucks what any of us think.

In interviews he seems to almost relish pissing off his older fanbase
Not at all. Just joining in on the dead horse battery.
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post #56 of 297
7/31/08 at 12:42am
from the interview...

Quote:
“I’m only going to produce Red Tails — we have a black director — but then I think I am going to direct some more, make some esoteric films that have a personal significance.”
wtf
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post #57 of 297
7/31/08 at 3:24am
A lot of Lucas' older fanbase is batshit insane.

This doesn't excuse his ingratitude for the billions of dollars they have made him. But still, I can see why he wouldn't take grown men who dress up like spacemen with no sense of Irony very seriously.
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post #58 of 297
7/31/08 at 6:01am
First of all, the original Star Wars movies were made to make money. Sorry if that busts anybody's precious little bubble. He didn't make them for the sole purpose of making lonely children smile.

Secondly, he doesn't owe anybody anything for his billions of dollars. You paid to see a movie, you saw a movie. You paid for an action figure, you got an action figure. Transaction ended.

Thirdly, if the worst thing he ever does as a human being is make some bad movies, fine. Stop acting like he's making the world a worse place. Go watch some good movies and get the fuck over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Cardew
But still, I can see why he wouldn't take grown men who dress up like spacemen with no sense of Irony very seriously.
Plus, I think a lot of the reason that these grown men get so pissed off is that Lucas doesn't even take Star Wars itself as seriously as they do. To him, it's a space opera, and it's just supposed to be fun. To them, it's like Zen Buddhism. They want it to guide them.
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post #59 of 297
7/31/08 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Son View Post
from the interview...

“I’m only going to produce Red Tails — we have a black director — but then I think I am going to direct some more, make some esoteric films that have a personal significance.”

wtf


Yousa called?
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post #60 of 297
7/31/08 at 9:30am
What I don't get is... it'd be so easy to please fans of Indy and Star Wars, and yet he tries to break away, doing something completely different with it.

Why? If he's interested in a character that ventures into space and stuff, why choose Indy for it? Invent something else for fucks sakes. If he's greedy for fan money, than stick with the typical stuff. If not, dare something new.

Imagine Coppola would have sent the Godfather into space in part 3 just because.
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post #61 of 297
7/31/08 at 9:48am
Please George. Just make your "esoteric" films already. Leave everything that was once good alone forever.
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post #62 of 297
7/31/08 at 11:35am
Greg David, A lot of films are made to earn alot of $$$ at the box office. There are small independant films which also have an audience. The Star Wars Saga is the best franchise of the blockbuster segment of film. I also believe Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back to be the greatest film in the history of cinema and Raiders Of The Lost Ark second only to ESB. Just 15 days from now Star Wars: The Clone Wars appears in theaters to make more $$$ to make more Star Wars and hopefully more Indiana Jones Adventures, as films,Television, video games, etc.
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post #63 of 297
7/31/08 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
...I think a lot of the reason that these grown men get so pissed off is that Lucas doesn't even take Star Wars itself as seriously as they do.
What percentage of his career (shit, his life!) would you say Lucas has spent on Star Wars? All things considered, he's the biggest Star Wars geek of them all. But challenging ole Georgie's integrity as a filmmaker sure seems to set your panties on fire, Greg.
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post #64 of 297
7/31/08 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
What percentage of his career / his life would you say Lucas has spent on Star Wars? All things considered, he's the biggest Star Wars geek of them all. I don't lose any sleep over any of this, for the record. Challenging the integrity of ole Georgie sure seems to set your panties on fire, though, Greg.
I think you missed the point of what he was saying.
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post #65 of 297
7/31/08 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
What percentage of his career (shit, his life!) would you say Lucas has spent on Star Wars? All things considered, he's the biggest Star Wars geek of them all. But challenging ole Georgie's integrity as a filmmaker sure seems to set your panties on fire, Greg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James May View Post
I think you missed the point of what he was saying.
And then some.
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post #66 of 297
7/31/08 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by James May View Post
I think you missed the point of what he was saying.
What makes you think that?
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post #67 of 297
7/31/08 at 12:46pm
Re-read my post, and try to find the part where I'm angry that anyone is insulting Lucas as a filmmaker. Hint: it's not there. At no point there do I even defend him as a filmmaker.

Reading comprehension is key to online discussion. Look into it.
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post #68 of 297
7/31/08 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
First of all, the original Star Wars movies were made to make money. Sorry if that busts anybody's precious little bubble. He didn't make them for the sole purpose of making lonely children smile.

Secondly, he doesn't owe anybody anything for his billions of dollars. You paid to see a movie, you saw a movie. You paid for an action figure, you got an action figure. Transaction ended.

Thirdly, if the worst thing he ever does as a human being is make some bad movies, fine. Stop acting like he's making the world a worse place. Go watch some good movies and get the fuck over it.

Plus, I think a lot of the reason that these grown men get so pissed off is that Lucas doesn't even take Star Wars itself as seriously as they do. To him, it's a space opera, and it's just supposed to be fun. To them, it's like Zen Buddhism. They want it to guide them.
It's your tone. Plus, you tend to defend Lucas a lot on the boards. That's your perogative, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me if we're talking about his post-1989 films. It's okay that we disagree on this subject, though.
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post #69 of 297
7/31/08 at 1:16pm
Every film geek should defend Lucas. If it wasn't for him we would be nowhere near our current state in special effects. Not yet anyway.
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post #70 of 297
7/31/08 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
Every film geek should defend Lucas. If it wasn't for him we would be nowhere near our current state in special effects. Not yet anyway.
I think the word "film" in your statement may be inaccurate. Lucas did a lot to advance the ability to do Geek Properties, but I think in terms of the BIGGER PICTURE of films, if you will, he's been a negative influence.

I don't think intentionally and I don't blame him really but, the summer model and blockbuster model that he and Spielberg ushered in hasn't been good for the art side of cinema.

If we are merely talking business, then it's more debatable. While it's true that they were a huge boon to the industry the bubble is starting to look like it's going to burst.

Lucas did get Raiders of the Lost Ark made, so he'll always be fine by me.
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post #71 of 297
7/31/08 at 3:32pm
Blah, blah, blah Lucas must die blah, blah, blah childhood rape blah, blah, blah I'm so over the prequels blah, blah, blah....
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post #72 of 297
7/31/08 at 3:39pm
I nominate this article as Justin's most "pun-errific" article ever.
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post #73 of 297
7/31/08 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Cardew View Post
I think the word "film" in your statement may be inaccurate. Lucas did a lot to advance the ability to do Geek Properties, but I think in terms of the BIGGER PICTURE of films, if you will, he's been a negative influence.

I don't think intentionally and I don't blame him really but, the summer model and blockbuster model that he and Spielberg ushered in hasn't been good for the art side of cinema.

If we are merely talking business, then it's more debatable. While it's true that they were a huge boon to the industry the bubble is starting to look like it's going to burst.

Lucas did get Raiders of the Lost Ark made, so he'll always be fine by me.
He hardly hurt the smaller "art" film community in any way other than making sure they arent being released in the summer no more. I can live with that considering how much he has contributed to the other side of the argument.
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post #74 of 297
7/31/08 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyEyes View Post
I can understand his point of view. Raiders was much easier to make from a creative point of view. He created Indy and came up with the story (with Philip Kaufman, but who remembers him in this story anyway?), got Lawrence Kasdan to script it, and Spielberg to direct it.
Lucas, Kasdan and Spielberg all sat in a room and hashed out the story amongst themselves, then Kasdan went away and scripted it. If you read the making of Raiders, there are story conference notes where you can read Spielberg adding many of the good ideas that ended up in the movie.

Lucas is delusional.
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post #75 of 297
7/31/08 at 5:16pm
And Lucas put a gun to Spielberg's head to force him to make Indy 5.

Seriously, people need to get some perspective about Lucas. He's not the anti-christ and he's not ruined cinema.
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post #76 of 297
7/31/08 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
It's your tone. Plus, you tend to defend Lucas a lot on the boards. That's your perogative, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me if we're talking about his post-1989 films. It's okay that we disagree on this subject, though.
I don't defend Lucas. I try to bring a sense of fucking perspective to the wailing of all these people who are convinced that some sub-par Star Wars movies make Lucas a pernicious influence that's causing the decline of western civilization.

My problem is that there are directors out there who have made nothing but bad movies, but they get a pass. People would rather reserve their hate for somebody who made some good movies, then later made ones they didn't like. That's fucked up, and I don't understand the perspective. Apparently, it's better to have been awful from the beginning than to have gone downhill. How does that make sense?

If anything, I think too many fans give Lucas too much credit for his earlier work. The 2 original Indy sequels aren't nearly as good as people make them out to be. Return of the Jedi is fucking awful. For my money, his decline as a filmmaker happened long before The Phantom Menace. It's that artificial dividing line that Geek Central has arbitrarily declared that bothers me.
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post #77 of 297
7/31/08 at 8:31pm
Greg, don't you understand! Lucas...raped...childhoods!!!!!!!
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post #78 of 297
7/31/08 at 8:48pm
But he can't help it! He's sick! He needs help!
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post #79 of 297
7/31/08 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post

My problem is that there are directors out there who have made nothing but bad movies, but they get a pass. People would rather reserve their hate for somebody who made some good movies, then later made ones they didn't like. That's fucked up, and I don't understand the perspective. Apparently, it's better to have been awful from the beginning than to have gone downhill. How does that make sense?
"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain"

Nerds can hold a grudge.
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post #80 of 297
7/31/08 at 9:05pm



(apologies for posting this in two different threads today, but it seems apropos)
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post #81 of 297
7/31/08 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post



(apologies for posting this in two different threads today, but it seems apropos)
now that is funny as hell..
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post #82 of 297
7/31/08 at 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
Plus, I think a lot of the reason that these grown men get so pissed off is that Lucas doesn't even take Star Wars itself as seriously as they do. To him, it's a space opera, and it's just supposed to be fun. To them, it's like Zen Buddhism. They want it to guide them.
This is a great example of why I'm sorry you don't blog anymore.
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post #83 of 297
7/31/08 at 10:12pm
Greg David, Chud's resident voice of reason.

I love the fact that someone's trying to patiently reason why the Lucas backlash is irrational and certain people are taking it as a personal attack. I think the reason a lot of us come to Chud is to find intelligent discussion and get away from stupid memes like 'Lucas raped my childhood'
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post #84 of 297
7/31/08 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Is that a saarlac tentacle coming out of his mouth?
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post #85 of 297
8/1/08 at 12:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Greg David, Chud's resident voice of reason.

I love the fact that someone's trying to patiently reason why the Lucas backlash is irrational and certain people are taking it as a personal attack. I think the reason a lot of us come to Chud is to find intelligent discussion and get away from stupid memes like 'Lucas raped my childhood'

Intelligent discourse stopped a long time ago when it comes to Lucas. Case in point: Indy 4. For some reason the problems with that film are all on Lucas, while Stevie is some poor, working director just trying to feed his family and goes along with the insane producer because he fears being fired.
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post #86 of 297
8/1/08 at 12:09am
"Please don't hit me any more, George. I'll put in the spaceship, honest. Can you let my children out of the meatlocker now? I put in the Tarzan swinging like you asked. It's in there real good."
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post #87 of 297
8/1/08 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
Is that a saarlac tentacle coming out of his mouth?
No, that's pure essence of "Myth", dumbass!
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post #88 of 297
8/1/08 at 1:21pm
I would have to agree that Lucas is overhated (as is Indy 4, I believe, and even the prequels to a degree), but what is obnoxious about his work in the last decade is exactly that attitude of not taking it seriously. I'm not saying everyone should treat Star Wars as some sort of holy writ, but it should be damn important to the people actually working on it. That's what seperates a show like Buffy the Vampire Slayer from a show like Charmed.

I don't think Lucas is greedy for cash. He could buy a studio himself if he wanted. I just think he's somehow decided that art and commerce aren't opposing forces, but one single thing. Pushing for the Mutt character to be shoe-horned in Darabont's script, which was working fine without him, and now pushing for a film series about him probably felt like artistic decisions to Lucas. But they're horrible, and have much more to do with extending the franchise until it's gasping for death. The emphasis on effects wizardry over storytelling and multitudes of characters created to make cool action figures are the same deal. Yeah, Lucas gets overhated, and by everyone, not just fanboys. But he shit all over franchises beloved by far more just geeks, and that stings much more than a shitty new Mummy movie.
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post #89 of 297
8/1/08 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
He hardly hurt the smaller "art" film community in any way other than making sure they arent being released in the summer no more. I can live with that considering how much he has contributed to the other side of the argument.
Lucas in the 80s was a notable benefactor of the arthouse scene. POWAQQATSI was made possible by the bizarre alliance of Lucas, Francis Coppola, and The Cannon Group. He also gave Coppola the chance to make TUCKER.

I want that George Lucas back.
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post #90 of 297
8/1/08 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
I would have to agree that Lucas is overhated (as is Indy 4, I believe, and even the prequels to a degree), but what is obnoxious about his work in the last decade is exactly that attitude of not taking it seriously. I'm not saying everyone should treat Star Wars as some sort of holy writ, but it should be damn important to the people actually working on it. That's what seperates a show like Buffy the Vampire Slayer from a show like Charmed.

I don't think Lucas is greedy for cash. He could buy a studio himself if he wanted. I just think he's somehow decided that art and commerce aren't opposing forces, but one single thing. Pushing for the Mutt character to be shoe-horned in Darabont's script, which was working fine without him, and now pushing for a film series about him probably felt like artistic decisions to Lucas. But they're horrible, and have much more to do with extending the franchise until it's gasping for death. The emphasis on effects wizardry over storytelling and multitudes of characters created to make cool action figures are the same deal. Yeah, Lucas gets overhated, and by everyone, not just fanboys. But he shit all over franchises beloved by far more just geeks, and that stings much more than a shitty new Mummy movie.

Raiders and Empire may be cinema but they're hardly art. They were designed as entertainment first. People act as if Lucas signed a deal with Lego to market fucking The Fifth Horsemen is Fear action playsets!

"Look at Dr. Braun's extendable Jew Fist of Doom as he fights Nazi thugs!"
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post #91 of 297
8/1/08 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancroft Agee View Post
Raiders and Empire may be cinema but they're hardly art.
Of course they're art. I don't mean to drag the thread straight into some sort of "What is art" hell, but cinema is an art form, thus, they're art. And who wouldn't consider one or both of those for any list of great achievements in the cinema?

I was never much of a Star Wars guy at all, really, but the cultural resonance of Star Wars is undeniable, as is the disappointment in Lucas's later output. He tarnished something everyone loved, and it could be argued, took something that made the fans feel special and made it, and by extension them, lame. Naturally, people are going to hold it against him, more than he deserves, probably. But he's also got a half billion dollars, so I can't begrudge people their my-childhood-was-raped parties.
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post #92 of 297
8/1/08 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
I don't defend Lucas. I try to bring a sense of fucking perspective to the wailing of all these people who are convinced that some sub-par Star Wars movies make Lucas a pernicious influence that's causing the decline of western civilization.
I think you and I have a different attitude towards Lucas more than we disagree on the quality of his films*. My bottom line on this subject: Lucas stopped caring about making good movies a long time ago and I don't enjoy movies that aren't good. Still, I agree that a lot of people take their disappointment in the Prequels far too seriously. Sometimes to frightening degrees.

PS: I like you, Greg, and was partly yanking your chain in a playful way with that earlier post about setting your panties on fire. I've actually never met your panties, but I wish them all the happiness and success in the world.


*Exceptions: 1) I might enjoy Temple of Doom more than you do. Though I admit it's been a few years since I last watched it. 2) I've got plenty of problems with Return of the Jedi, but I still find it more watchable than any of the Prequels.
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post #93 of 297
8/1/08 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
Of course they're art. I don't mean to drag the thread straight into some sort of "What is art" hell, but cinema is an art form, thus, they're art. And who wouldn't consider one or both of those for any list of great achievements in the cinema?

I was never much of a Star Wars guy at all, really, but the cultural resonance of Star Wars is undeniable, as is the disappointment in Lucas's later output. He tarnished something everyone loved, and it could be argued, took something that made the fans feel special and made it, and by extension them, lame. Naturally, people are going to hold it against him, more than he deserves, probably. But he's also got a half billion dollars, so I can't begrudge people their my-childhood-was-raped parties.
I probably didn't word it as well as I could have. Sorry for that.

What I'm trying to say is that something like Raiders or Star Wars os populist entertainment first. Brilliant, well made populist entertainment? Yes. An achievement in cinema? Yes. Something so sacred or pure to get your panties in a wad about because they made toys or dinner plates? No.
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post #94 of 297
8/1/08 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
Well consdering ones an auteur and the others a hermit toy designer that hardly surprises.
Umm Spielberg is not an auteur, he doesn't write any of his own scripts.
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post #95 of 297
8/1/08 at 9:42pm
Lucas makes movies for kids, you are grown ups. Deal with it.

I know plenty of children who fucking love the prequel trilogy, much more than the old trilogy which is kinda slow and boring for today's standards when it comes to kids entertainment.

So saying crap like "Lucas stopped caring about making good movies" is fucking stupid. He wouldn't have spend 10 years directing and producing the prequel trilogy if he didn't care about it and/or loves it. Watch some of the behind the scenes stuff where he proudly and enthusiastically shows Spielberg some of the models and sets they build for the prequel trilogy and then tell me again he didn't care.

The only thing he doesn't care about are the opinions of 30-40 year old fanboys. I'll agree with that.
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post #96 of 297
8/1/08 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
*Exceptions: 1) I might enjoy Temple of Doom more than you do. Though I admit it's been a few years since I last watched it. 2) I've got plenty of problems with Return of the Jedi, but I still find it more watchable than any of the Prequels.
I actually do like The Temple of Doom, far more than Last Crusade. It has a cool, retro "Let's be horrified at the primitive culture" vibe that puts it more in the movie serial vein than Crusade, which was more like a father-son sitcom with some action scenes.

Until recently, Return of the Jedi was by far my least favorite Star Wars film. On reexamination, though, I've decided that Attack of the Clones is a little worse, largely just because Jedi has a stellar third act. But the first two acts of Jedi are an exercise in wheel-spinning that drives me right up the wall. Literally, nothing happens for nearly two hours. It has no story to call its own, and doesn't resolve anything from Empire until the last act (well, except for rescuing Han...yawn).

And keep your hands off my panties unless you mean business.
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post #97 of 297
8/2/08 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabster View Post
Umm Spielberg is not an auteur, he doesn't write any of his own scripts.
An auteur is someone who's work has an indelible stamp of their own specific sensibility on it, and any other director doing the same film would radically alter that stamp just by proxy...say, like not being able to imagine anyone but DDL playing Daniel Plainview in There Will Be Blood; he made the part his own. It's pretty much the same with Spielberg. Just because he doesn't get screenplay credit doesn't mean he doesn't hold massive influence over the scripts to his films (he does). So in that sense yes, he is an auteur.

EDIT: There are many directors who can claim screenplay credit (but don't) simply by the massive amount of material they alter to fit their own sensibility. This was more prevalent in the 70s new wave cinema movement when directors had much more power.
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post #98 of 297
8/2/08 at 1:16pm
For sure. Spielberg has said countless times that he makes uncredited re-writes on the scripts that he directs. Not counting the fact that he has directed his own credited scripts as well with Close Encounters, Poltergeist and A.I. Not to mention he also wrote The Goonies.
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post #99 of 297
8/2/08 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
Lucas, Kasdan and Spielberg all sat in a room and hashed out the story amongst themselves, then Kasdan went away and scripted it. If you read the making of Raiders, there are story conference notes where you can read Spielberg adding many of the good ideas that ended up in the movie.

Lucas is delusional.
Actually, if you can get ahold of the entire transcript (it pops up on eBay occasionally,) you might have a very different opinion. I'm certainly no Lucas apologist but I have to say, he comes across like a fucking genius in the transcript, whereas Spielberg is coming up with most of the clunkers, seemingly more interested in slapstick and goofy sight gags. In the transcript, Lucas has an amazingly clear vision for the character and the series, and pretty much runs the show in the story conferences, even breaking the structure and action beats of the film(s) down mathematically. I'm sure the excerpt used in the Making of RAIDERS book was very carefully selected to make everyone look good.

In any case, the entire document is a fascinating, educational read and reveals greater insight into Lucas and Spielberg's working relationship and contributions than anything else I've ever seen. And when you get a peek at THAT Lucas at work, you end up truly regretting his absence all these years but fully admiring that he was once a master storyteller. Seek it out.
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post #100 of 297
8/2/08 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration View Post
Actually, if you can get ahold of the entire transcript (it pops up on eBay occasionally,) you might have a very different opinion. I'm certainly no Lucas apologist but I have to say, he comes across like a fucking genius in the transcript, whereas Spielberg is coming up with most of the clunkers, seemingly more interested in slapstick and goofy sight gags. In the transcript, Lucas has an amazingly clear vision for the character and the series, and pretty much runs the show in the story conferences, even breaking the structure and action beats of the film(s) down mathematically. I'm sure the excerpt used in the Making of RAIDERS book was very carefully selected to make everyone look good.

In any case, the entire document is a fascinating, educational read and reveals greater insight into Lucas and Spielberg's working relationship and contributions than anything else I've ever seen. And when you get a peek at THAT Lucas at work, you end up truly regretting his absence all these years but fully admiring that he was once a master storyteller. Seek it out.
I'd be more than willing to eat my words when I read it, but my opinion still stands. Spielberg added a lot to the movie, and Lucas talking shit about during KOTCS how everyone else was an annoyance and it would've been better if it went like Raiders where he was in charge? So you're telling me the worst stuff in KOTCS was Spielberg's ideas? Taking into account the prequels (and Jedi), I gotta call horeshit.
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