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Ron Suskind book: White House ordered letter forgery to link Iraq and al Qaida

post #1 of 26
8/5/08 at 2:35pm
Thread Starter 
... with a tidy $5 million for the letter's "author."

Quote:
Author claims White House knew Iraq had no WMD
Journalist Ron Suskind says Bush ordered forgery linking Saddam, al-Qaeda

By Bob Considine
TODAYShow.com contributor
updated 6:19 a.m. PT, Tues., Aug. 5, 2008

President Bush committed an impeachable offense by ordering the CIA to to manufacture a false pretense for the Iraq war in the form of a backdated, handwritten document linking Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda, an explosive new book claims.

The charge is made in “The Way of the World: A Story of Truth and Hope in an Age of Extremism” by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Ron Suskind, released today.

Suskind says he spoke on the record with U.S. intelligence officials who stated that Bush was informed unequivocally in January 2003 that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction. Nonetheless, his book relates, Bush decided to invade Iraq three months later — with the forged letter from the head of Iraqi intelligence to Saddam bolstering the U.S. rationale to go into war.
More here.
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post #2 of 26
8/5/08 at 2:48pm
B-b-but Clinton had oral sex in the White House! Let's keep some political perspective here!

I just dunno anymore. I wanna keep the faith, but it's just. so. damn. hard.
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post #3 of 26
8/5/08 at 2:50pm


"SURPRISE! SURPRISE! SURPRISE!"
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post #4 of 26
8/5/08 at 3:00pm
Imagine the faux outrage from the Limbaugh corners had any of this happened under a Democratic administration. Imagine the calls for accountability and justice. Imagine the idea of checks and balances.

Imagine.
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post #5 of 26
8/5/08 at 5:25pm
Whats that going to change? Whos going to do anything? Right, nobody.
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post #6 of 26
8/6/08 at 12:44am
Jeez, this came from nowhere. Can we just impeach them now?
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post #7 of 26
8/6/08 at 9:48am
I look forward to seeing whether other journalists are able to verify the story.
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post #8 of 26
8/6/08 at 10:39am
And yet, you'll probably end up with President McCain.
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post #9 of 26
8/6/08 at 11:02am
I watched Suskind this morning on the Today show. Didn't really come across as credible (perhaps he just doesn't interview very well); however, I would love to see other journalists validate this story too.
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post #10 of 26
8/6/08 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastronikolas View Post
And yet, you'll probably end up with President McCain.
Even if this story is accurate, I don't see how it reflects on McCain.
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post #11 of 26
8/6/08 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti View Post
Even if this story is accurate, I don't see how it reflects on McCain.
I think he's saying that Americans are dumb enough to vote for a guy who's spent the last few years riding the current administration's jock, even after this, over any black dude.
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post #12 of 26
8/6/08 at 11:46am
Pretty much. Although I'd say that it's people in general and not just Americans who are that dumb.
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post #13 of 26
8/6/08 at 12:06pm
But a vote for McCain isn't necessarily any more a "dumb" vote than a vote for Obama. If we aren't willing to accept that reasonable, smart, and good-intentioned people can come to different conclusions than we, than our polity is well and truly screwed.
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post #14 of 26
8/6/08 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti View Post
But a vote for McCain isn't necessarily any more a "dumb" vote than a vote for Obama. If we aren't willing to accept that reasonable, smart, and good-intentioned people can come to different conclusions than we, than our polity is well and truly screwed.
I really, really, have to disagree here. McCain runs on his foreign policy credentials and basically proves he doesn't know much, if anything, about the subject every single time he opens his mouth (and Joe Lieberman is near him and doesn't have too much cock in his mouth to pipe up). Also, to get the nomination, he basically aligned himself with the Bush political machine. On top of that, by reversing himself on 9/10 topics he's ever held and buddying up with the Religious Right, he's basically turned in his integrity card. Oh! And he also brags about not being the sharpest tool in the shack at school. Pair a guy with that kind of background with Bush money and I guarantee you what you will get will indeed be an extension of that administration. Except for the issue of torture, he's already demonstrated he won't stand up to his masters--he even eventually back off the torture thing--and he's not even in office. That's a pretty dumb vote.
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post #15 of 26
8/6/08 at 12:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti View Post
But a vote for McCain isn't necessarily any more a "dumb" vote than a vote for Obama. If we aren't willing to accept that reasonable, smart, and good-intentioned people can come to different conclusions than we, than our polity is well and truly screwed.
True, but if you look at facts and look for information beyond the narrow band of right-wing radio and dumbed down corporate news that a lot of people are accessing, you have to see that the policies McCain will continue are what have driven this country into the ground. I honestly don't see how anyone making less than $200,000 a year can in good conscience vote for McCain.

Since Reagan, and exacerbated greatly by Bush II, we have gone from the biggest lender nation in the world to the biggest debtor nation in the world, from the biggest exporter of finished goods to the biggest importer of finished goods. The disparity between the richest 1% of the population and everyone else hasn't been this wide since just before the Great Depression. Trickle down/free market economics is a failure. Global warming is real. The dangers of continued fossil fuel reliance is real. Wars for control of foreign oil have depleted this country in body and spirit.

Obama may not be the messiah (or even the false messiah the latest McCain ads would like to portray him as), but at least he's dealing with reality. McCain's two issues seem to be "I know how to win wars" and "drilling is the answer to our problems," when the first can't be quantified and the latter is just flat-out false, if you look at the facts.

It's more than each individual coming to a conclusion about his likability or character. Independent facts - for people who are absorbing them - favor Obama.
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post #16 of 26
8/6/08 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
True, but if you look at facts and look for information beyond the narrow band of right-wing radio and dumbed down corporate news that a lot of people are accessing, you have to see that the policies McCain will continue are what have driven this country into the ground. I honestly don't see how anyone making less than $200,000 a year can in good conscience vote for McCain.

Since Reagan, and exacerbated greatly by Bush II, we have gone from the biggest lender nation in the world to the biggest debtor nation in the world, from the biggest exporter of finished goods to the biggest importer of finished goods. The disparity between the richest 1% of the population and everyone else hasn't been this wide since just before the Great Depression. Trickle down/free market economics is a failure. Global warming is real. The dangers of continued fossil fuel reliance is real. Wars for control of foreign oil have depleted this country in body and spirit.

Obama may not be the messiah (or even the false messiah the latest McCain ads would like to portray him as), but at least he's dealing with reality. McCain's two issues seem to be "I know how to win wars" and "drilling is the answer to our problems," when the first can't be quantified and the latter is just flat-out false, if you look at the facts.

It's more than each individual coming to a conclusion about his likability or character. Independent facts - for people who are absorbing them - favor Obama.
Both you guys are missing Franks point entirely. It's also worth noting that you are wrong. Pick, this thread or the Presidential where I reply to your question from yesterday (I've been busy). It'll take me about two hours to formulate the reply.
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post #17 of 26
8/6/08 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
Both you guys are missing Franks point entirely. It's also worth noting that you are wrong. Pick, this thread or the Presidential where I reply to your question from yesterday (I've been busy). It'll take me about two hours to formulate the reply.
I'm not sure that they miss Frank's point so much as they prove it.
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post #18 of 26
8/6/08 at 2:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
Both you guys are missing Franks point entirely. It's also worth noting that you are wrong. Pick, this thread or the Presidential where I reply to your question from yesterday (I've been busy). It'll take me about two hours to formulate the reply.
Probably the other thread since this is off-topic for this thread. But: how am I missing FC's point?
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post #19 of 26
8/6/08 at 3:07pm
Even better, how do we prove Frank's point?

Because, the way I see it, the Republicans need to be penalised for making the world a shittier place over the last seven years.

And McCain has proven to be in bed with the Bush administration, as far as it's the contested policies are concerned.
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post #20 of 26
8/6/08 at 6:04pm
I suggest that a quantum of understanding (Btw, I'm trying to a deal with the Broccolis through which I get a small commission every time I use "quantum" in a sentence.) is vital to the functioning of any polity. If we're unwilling to believe in the sense and goodwill of the other, we devolve into armed camps.

America has had enough political balkanization. Based on both candidates' rhetoric in the primaries, I'd hoped that this election might be the beginning of a turnaround in American politics. Based on both candidates' behavior, I'm sad to report that my hope was misplaced.
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post #21 of 26
8/6/08 at 6:35pm
McCain is running on policies remarkably similar to the policies orchestrated by the current administration. So in order to have a civil debate, we must ignore the reality that these policies fucking suck? We aren't allowed to point out that hey, you know, McCain is talking about doing the same shit George Bush has been doing, and that it really hasn't worked out too well for our country?

Now, if you want to argue that McCain's policies differ from Bush's, then let's hear it. But I'm not gonna meekly accept that the last eight years have been 'okay' in the name of civil discourse. That shit was whack, and voting for McCain is equally whack, unless there is some hidden policy platform of his that is shielded from prying eyes.

EDIT: I guess you could also argue that the Bush administration hasn't been that bad. Go ahead. Try it.
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post #22 of 26
8/6/08 at 6:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti View Post
If we're unwilling to believe in the sense and goodwill of the other, we devolve into armed camps.
FC, I think that's the core of the problem with the prevailing GOP power base of the past decade. There are too many lies mixed in with the truth. I'm not talking about verbal gaffes, but real lies. How can you ask a people who have been lied to consistently and destructively for two terms now to believe in the sense and goodwill of the other?

I linked to a Bill Moyers program a few weeks ago in which traditional conservatives were discussing the radicalized GOP of today. Those two men, while I didn't agree with them on 75% of what they were saying, were rational and forthright. If the McCain campaign were more like those Republicans, I think they would deserve the benefit of the doubt. But the oil drilling "solution," degrading TV spots and fear-mongering through niche groups are just the latest example of how McCain is falling into the same pattern of deceit and distraction as Bush.
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post #23 of 26
8/6/08 at 7:00pm
I do believe in the goodwill of many Republicans - one of my sisters votes Republican, some of my childhood friends do as well, etc. It's hard to maintain a stiff prejudice against people you actually know.

However, there is simply too much money in politics to ever give politicians the benefit of the doubt. Why would I believe in the goodwill of a campaign? It shouldn't be about the candidate as much as it should be about their policies.

Yes, I realize where the complaints about Obama and the cult of personality come from. In my estimation, he's a likable guy backed up by reasonable policies. I'm willing to judge those policies on their own merits. Unfortunately, John McCain's policies are far too similar to Bush's for me to magically believe they will have any differing results: massive deficits, structural weaknesses in the economy, widening disparity of wealth, global dismay at our foreign policy, fucking mercenaries fighting our wars. I don't pretend that Obama can just dismiss all of this through sheer strength of will, but McCain? How, exactly, is he going to avoid these trends when his ideas are so ensnared with the dominant Republican ideology that has led to where we are today?

Best case scenario: McCain is putting on a front to get Republicans to vote for him, when in reality his heart is closer to the 2000 McCain. But if you're voting on that slim possibility . . . that just doesn't seem a good decision.
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post #24 of 26
8/6/08 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
FC, I think that's the core of the problem with the prevailing GOP power base of the past decade. There are too many lies mixed in with the truth. I'm not talking about verbal gaffes, but real lies. How can you ask a people who have been lied to consistently and destructively for two terms now to believe in the sense and goodwill of the other?

I linked to a Bill Moyers program a few weeks ago in which traditional conservatives were discussing the radicalized GOP of today. Those two men, while I didn't agree with them on 75% of what they were saying, were rational and forthright. If the McCain campaign were more like those Republicans, I think they would deserve the benefit of the doubt. But the oil drilling "solution," degrading TV spots and fear-mongering through niche groups are just the latest example of how McCain is falling into the same pattern of deceit and distraction as Bush.
How are the ad's decietful and distracting?

Does Obama support drilling? Does he want to raise taxes? Did he vote for a bill or support a bill that would increase our taxes at the pump?
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post #25 of 26
8/6/08 at 7:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
How are the ad's decietful and distracting?

Does Obama support drilling? Does he want to raise taxes? Did he vote for a bill or support a bill that would increase our taxes at the pump?
Snaieke, since this thread is derailed anyway, why do you want John McCain to be the next president?
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post #26 of 26
8/6/08 at 8:39pm
Yeah, yt. How are McCain's ads deceitful and distracting? Aren't McCain and Obama running for president? Didn't he approve that message???
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