The Cold War 2.0 Thread - Page 2

Sure, but you'll only know things are really serious when Zombie Joe tears the Washington Memorial straight out of the ground and uses it as a javelin to pierce Vampire Truman straight in the heart.

The one thing I find more revolting than the greedy rich stealing from the poor are the cowardly neocons putting brave and hard working soldiers in harm's way to fulfill their sick Napoleonic fantasies of empire.

That general is just reminding Poland of what would happen if a war broke out. Of course they would make themselves a target with those missiles in their country, the same way Cuba made themselves a target when Russia put weapons on their soil. I know we're not talking nuclear missiles here, but they are missiles that could render Russia defenseless.

It always sounds scary when Russian generals speak their mind but they are just calling a spade a spade. Some people in the middle-east probably feel the same way when american politicians and generals talk about bombing Iran and whatnot.

But it will be quite a few years before the Russians even have a strong enough conventional force to cope with that of Nato. Their regular army is really a mess beyond belief.

Well, the terrorists suddenly stopped being America's no. 1 enemy. Ain't that a hoot?

I'm waiting for a convincing answer to the question of why it's alright for Georgia to use its armed forces against dissidents in Ossetia but it was wrong for Serbia to use its armed forces against dissidents in Kosovo. And why it was alright for the US to use force against the Serbs but wrong for Russia to use force against Georgia.

Cuz they're the US.

Seriously, it's pretty much that, sort of a parental behavior that is a " you'll do what I do when you're an adult" type of thing. Serbia had a tendency to go into ethnic cleansing mode, so there's an argument there I guess, but that's about it. Georgia was dumb, but you raise the question of when is it OK to use force to squash dissidence, and when is it acceptable for a foreign country to help the dissidents. There's no rules, and there won't be, unlike what the United States would want to.

Kosovo was an illegal war on our part, that's for sure.

I'm sure we killed more civilians than Russia did also. We kick their ass at EVERYTHING!

Because that was a non-binding non-precedent where it was all about the right to self-determination and democracy as opposed to those greedy and shady Communist aggressors.

Seriously though welcome to the beautiful world of double standards. International Law is not exactly know for being handed out evenly. Kosovo opened just another can of worms with results everyone could have expected. Same story as the so called justification for US to fight the war on terror. Is anybody surprised that Russia discovered even more terrorists in Chechnya, China is suddenly hunting down terrorists in their vast empire?

Why does the world not do as I say but does as I do?

And sorry for the double post but Russia will surely love this:

US and Poland sign missile shield deal.

I love this part:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

beyond diplomacy ... so like, that's alarming. Excuse me, I need to check google maps to find out if I am down wind of NYC.

FUCKKKKKKKKKKKK

Russia halts military work with NATO: Norway

And the hits just keep on coming..

Today, we are all Georgians (in poking the bear until we get our asses handed to us). Another great call, McCain.

This is why we should elect McCain. Out of both candidates, McCain will look best sitting in his command bunker underneath the charred ruin of America giving out orders that no one will give a fuck about.


This morning I already encountered two people who represent why the human race is doomed. One was "it's okay. The media's just convinced the libtards that our military is stretched too thin. We'll nuke 'em!"

The other was "Russia's communistastic regime hates Georgia because of their democracy and capitalism"

I can't decide which one I consider scarier.

Would you look at that - Musharraf pulled a Nixon. I didn't think he'd let go. Wonder what the next guy's outlook on foreign policy towards the US, Russia, and India will be.

I'm of the opinion of not giving a fuck about either with a dash of understanding on Russia's part. Especially when met with hypocritical rhetoric from the United States.

A bit of a strawman arguement, but

How do you think the US would react if Russia signed an agreement with Mexico to setup missile sites in their country to protect against potential threats from Central & South America?

Maybe some people are not ready to get their "better dead than red" T-shirts out of the closet because Russia was no more wrong to attack Georgia than Georgia was to attack South Ossetia. Meaning that this is a conflict with a lot of gray areas and no discernible good and bad guys. And none of the West's business.

Why pick sides? Because Condie Rice tells you to? Aren't these the same people responsible for Iraq? Afghanistan still resembling something out of Mad Max? The rest of the world going from "we are all Americans" to "screw America"?

Maybe some people are not ready to support a new cold war because this whole mess is the Republican administration itching to pick a fight with Russia.

Maybe it's because the War on Terror (TM) is fizzling out and they need to bring back a popular villain for the sequel.

Are we supposed to believe that Russia is now back to being a great global threat and an enemy of Freedom (TM) because it won't give up its interests in its geopolitical neighbourhood?

And notice that it's the republican administration I'm referring to, not the Bush administration. McCain, the old fossil and Bush-supporting warmonger he is, has already taken a side. And it's the side of those risking even greater global turmoil in the name of "a New American Century". Or even better "a New Corporate Century".

I was going to respond but everyone has pretty much already posted my response with much more clarity.

It's not a question of "rooting for" Russia. It's a question of smart foreign policy rather than stoking tensions for political gain. John "My chief foreign policy adviser is on Georgia's payroll" McCain comes out with this ready-made statement about Russia, the "aggressor," after the US and probably McCain himself assures Shakashvili (I'm sure I mangled his name) to invade South Ossetia, implying the US will have his back and give Georgia its money's worth? It's fucking idiotic, reckless and endangers basically the entire globe.

Then, to speak for the nation by saying "we're all Georgians" - when most average people had zero clue about what was even going on - recalling famous words spoken by another country's leader (Iran?) in the wake of 9/11 just adds a sick layer of opportunism to the whole thing.

In this folly, something like 2000 people died, all of the millions in US-provided munitions and training have been destroyed, and the chess pieces throughout Eastern Europe have all been disrupted.

This is a man who is running for President of the United States. It's like something out of a Naked Gun movie or something.

You should all also take into account the fact that Corporate interests always resented Russia because it distributed its wealth to local scumbags instead of overseas scumbags. Western corporations didn't get to buy Soviet industries or gain access to soviet resources for peanuts.

Absolutely. Excellent point, mastronikolas.

I recommend Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" to anyone interested to find out more about this. I'm sure you've already read it, yt.

Anyway, in my book this crude attempt to revitalise the cold war is one more reason why McCain must not win the White House in November.

I have it, but every time I pick it up to read, I get too sickened and freaked out and have to put it down. Books like Shock Doctrine really show how useless and corrupted the mainstream news is. I'm going to try to finish it, but I'll have to do so in broad daylight surrounded by my family and pets, or I might open a vein.

I know that I should have lost all ability to be surprised by this administration, but I absolutely cannot believe the complete lack of irony with which they deliver their condemnations of a country that would invade a sovereign nation and overthrow its government. They must understand what they're saying, right? They have to. Right?

I see your cynicism is set at 11.

The problem with Russia is that they cannot be trusted = they are not stable. They opened their economy to the West to get our expertise in oil/mineral extraction, then hounded those companies out of the country (literally in the case of the BP guy based in Russia and in charge of operations there: he had his home ransacked a couple of times and was bascially threatended with murder if he didn't amscray).

With the invasion of Georgia they promised to withdraw and have yet to do so. They also "accidentally" bombed the only bridge linking Georgia with Tiblisi, so a major transport artery is gone, crippling Georgia for the near future.

I really get weirded out by these boards sometimes. Are you guys really salivating over this "moral equivalence" meme you've got going? Does the US invasion of Iraq somehow mean we can never ever point out that what Russia is doing is a dangerous precedent and wrong? And will you feel the same way when Putin decides to cut off natural gas supplies to Europe one winter?

This hole thing with Poland's missile shield does not add up. On paper Russia should be able to overwhelm it easily. So why are they worried about it? Unless what my grandpa, who was a aerospace engineer, told me was true back in the 80s. That the Russian long range missiles don't have a very long shelf life, and most would not get off the grown, and most of the ones that did get off the grown would just land in Russia. So is Russia just a paper Tiger, after all?

Nobody's salivating. But for Bush & Friends to hold a press conference wagging their fingers at Russia for doing exactly what we've done is plain hypocrisy. Yes, it was wrong for Russia. It was also wrong for us. The masterminds behind the invasion of Iraq don't get to be morally superior.

Putin should absolutely have to face consequences for this. But Bush should have faced consequences long before this.

Wow, yt you too? I have seriously tried to read it about a dozen times and Im only about a quarter way in. I just get too depressed and angry reading it I have to put it down.

I know I need to know this information, and I will finish it eventually, but that knowledge sure aint good for my soul considering how bitter and cynical I am already.

I know I'm playing armchair general here but let's call a spade a spade. Installing an anti-ICBM system in Poland or Georgia is as close as the USA can go to attack Russia short of actually bombing its missile silos. The Russians have every right to lose their shit over this.

ICBM missiles are mostly vulnerable during their early part of their flight when they're low, slow and still in one piece. After they reach the peak of their orbit, splitting into much smaller M.I.R.V.s traveling at multiple Machs, they are practically unstoppable. This forces the Russians to rely more on missiles being launched from much further inside their border, meaning they would take a much longer time to reach their targets. In short this gives the US first strike capability against Russia, which no matter what the spin is, is what these systems are about.

As a logical human being I do not want any of the nuclear powers to have a first strike advantage against their rivals. The M.A.D. doctrine was, in my opinion one of the main reasons for not having a WWIII during the cold war. Trying to imbalance that can only lead to trouble.

"Hey third world former superpower! Now that you can't protect yourselves do you want us to do it?" There never was a chance the Russians would have accepted that and everyone knew it. It was just for show.

I debunked this assertion in another thread a few weeks ago.

Say it with me now: re*al*pol*i*tik.

I sure hope you did get the attempt at irony in my post Sir?

And just to split hairs it would be: re*al*po*li*tik.

Russia offered to fold its radars in (Azerbaijan?) into the missile shield. US said it would seriously consider it.

I've been bested! Damn sleep deprivation ...

Don't worry Frank. Germans are supposed to know their Bismark better than the rest of us.

We need to make a pact to finish this book. Agreed?

A little advice from someone who finished it. Make sure you're unarmed and alone, because you will either want to kill someone or yourself.

It's "On The Beach" tragic and "Heart Of Darkness" frustrating.

(When you do finish, throw a copy of Steyn's bedpantastic "America Alone" into the nearest lake. It'll make ya feel just a little bit better)

Done.

I only seem to be able to read it when Im doing so in tandem with one of Obamas books ironically - I guess his words are the spoonful of sugar to Kleins medicine...

President Dmitry Medvedev has declared that Russia formally recognises the independence of the breakaway Georgian regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Yeah, lets spill some fuel into the fire!

This does not bode well. In my opinion Russia might have overplayed their card and are in pretty blatant violation of international law now. Not that this really matters. But the relationships between Russia and Europe/US just took another serious hit.

What's even worse is that now, as opposed to other times, we've got the wrong folks in position to handle the "back channel". I can't fully speak for the Russians, but just look at the American cast of characters. Just look at them!

Ah, I see that Cheney is travelling to Georgia today. I'm sure he will be able to smoothe things out there.

*cough*Kosovo*cough*

What's happening right now is the Bush administration's idiotic foreign policy blowing up on their faces. It was bound to happen.

While I agree with you on a pragmatical level Mastronikolas that Kosovo opened the box of pandora under international law these two incidents can´t be compared.

Why not? Kosovo is a part of Serbia with a degree of autonomy. The locals wanted to secede and the Serbs used force to stop that. A foreign power intervened militarily in favor of the secessionists. Then, that foreign power recognised Kosovo as an independent entity.

South Ossetia is a part of Georgia with a degree of autonomy. The locals wanted to secede and the Georgians used force to stop that. A foreign power intervened militarily in favor of the secessionists. Then, that foreign power recognised South Ossetia as an independent entity.

If the last five years of world events has taught me anything, it's that the very concept of 'international law' means exactly two things - jack and shit.

International law is what the countries that don't have the power to do what they want are expected to conform to.

That pretty much sums this whole thing up. That and the other powers who ignore International law complain about how said power is ignoring International law. All this is is just a bunch of trash talking on a international level, and thousands of poor people dieing. If it was rich people dieing it would be Different.

Kosovo was under the Clinton administration.

What's happening right now has nothing to do with Bush. Russia has been asserting their dominance for over fifty years in Europe and now is no exception. While I'm sure everyone would love to blame Bush or the missile defense shield the bottom line is the West has a long history of making speeches and doing nothing when it comes to Russia, this would have happened under any administration.


They're building nuclear reactors in Iran (started long before Bush took office)
Russia poisoned a man with Plutonium in the U.K.
They flew strategic bombers into British air space.
Russia lays claim to the North Pole
How often have they cut off or threatened to cut off oil and gas to European countries during the winter?
They poised the opposition of one of their stooges in (I forget the country) but remember the guy was good looking then he looked like he could play a mutant in a Romero movie?
Heck, they've assassinated congress people IN Russia and reporters who opposed Putin.


Anyways.. that's all I could think of in about five minutes. There has been a lot more.

Sorry Snaike but Dammit....They're zombies! God damned ZOMBIES. You want mutants look at Troma. Sorry, but that shit get my hackles up every time.

And while we're at it, the folks in 28 DAYS LATER are not zombies....they're infected! Alive and INfuckinFECTED!

You want to see mutants...here's some for you on the rampage in Denver.