Declaring Shenanigans on Elm Street - Page 4

If you guys haven't done so yet, you should check out NEVER SLEEP AGAIN. It's like a four hour retrospective on the series, but it's utterly fantastic. Watching the entire crew take the piss out of Freddy's Revenge* and listening to Renny Harlin and everyone's Renny Harlin impression is worth the price alone. It's also neat listening to Renny Harlin explaining his thought process, the dog pissing on Freddy's corpse to resurrect him seems to be a big mythological thing for him.

*Clu Gulager in particular is hilarious

And it's 25% off on deepdiscount till the 20th:
http://www.deepdiscount.com/index.cf...-74321AE5F72D/

Sounds awesome.

Better late than never, my ranking of the Englund Nightmare movies(my favorite horror franchise...

1. Dream Warriors(best blend of creepy/sardonic freddy and imagery and character backstory, plus, Dokken for the win!)
2. Nightmare on Elm Street(damn effective for a low budget spookfest, the most traditional horror movie of the bunch and showed how much potential was in this idea)
3. Dream Master(the tipping point of the series, super slick and popcorny, but a blast to watch.)
4. Freddy vs Jason(its everything it promises to its fans.)
5. New Nightmare(A little slow, but I love all the Meta shit in it, "Freddy" returns to being truly a creeper in it, but Langenkamp still can't act.)

the other 3 are all interchangably weak, but at least Freddy's Revenge still has a creepy Freddy and plays up Craven's original idea of Freddy as a male witch, plus some pretty good imagery, albeit being very slow, and so very homoerotic. That being said, 5 and 6 are the ones I've rewatched the least, just ridiculously boring and uninspired

Haven't seen Nightmare 2010 yet, looked like rental fodder to me.

I loved the documentary. It was thorough and entertaining for most of its running time. The only thing that drove me nuts was that they would crop in during the talking head interviews and it created a very noticeable and jolted cut.

‘Never Sleep Again’ - I might be taking my life in my own hands by saying this, but I loved that the crew were totally honest about how cheesy some of the stuff in the first Nightmare movie was, but it made me laugh when the crews of the later films would speak of the first Nightmare like it was Citizen Kane.

Well, by comparison...

Well, to be fair, different things are cheesy to different people. I haven't seen the documentary, so I don't know what you're talking about, but I always thought Freddy's extended hands was pretty silly. Then I showed the movie to my sister and wife for the first time, and they both thought that scene was pretty scary. They said the freakiest thing about it was that it was showing the girl couldn't get away, which is scary to most women. So I guess its all relative.

And yeah, compared to the Power Glove scene, everything in the first one could have come from Casablanca.

NEVER SLEEP AGAIN was really fantastic. I'm not even a big Freddy fan, but I loved listening to the stories and details all the same. I especially liked how frankly everyone at New Line discussed the shittiness or fan disappointment with the various sequels.

The puppeteering of the arms is pretty obvious now, but that scene got mentioned a lot back in the day.

Hadn't heard the female perspective put like that before though. Nasty.

The Doco is great. Much more respect for the second film now and totally buy that they weren't unknowingly playing the gay/confused sexuality line. Loved the constant cutting back to the writer "That was supposed to be SUBTEXT!".

DREAM CHILD is my most hated NIGHTMARE film. I can't accept that an extended cut is significantly better, but given how poorly paced and choppy the film is, I'd be interested to see such a cut.

And Lisa Wilcox is actually BETTER looking now, I think. It makes no sense. Her husband must be proud.

Btw. *cough cough* My epic review of the NIGHTMARE 8 film box set finally went up. If anyone has a huge amount of time they need to kill.

Okay so after reading the epic 8-film box set review I decided to rewatch part 2. What...a mistake. I'm sorry but the film is just horrible. It's filmed like an after school special, and everyone feels like a caricature: from the father-knows-best dad to Lisa's skanky friend to Ron the jock, no one feels real. I'll give Mark Patton the benefit of the doubt, he creates a nuanced character and takes chances with his acting I wouldn't expect from a movie like this, but this just isn't what I want from my Freddy.

Speaking of Freddy, this is one of his better appearances. He's less in the shadows and a bit more talkative, but everything he says is menacing or fucked up. Plus there's creepy close ups of his crazy eyes! I also appreciate his continuing sado-masochism (burning his hand on the boiler, pulling off his own skull cap).

The special FX are also incredible, with Freddy's emergence from Jesse in Ron's bedroom being a highlight. Speaking of that scene, is there anything more creepy and pervy than Freddy's snickering nod to Ron as he puts his hat on. Like "yeah fucker, you're dead."

All in all, it feels like a non-movie, especially in the wake of the tight continuity 1 and 3-5 form, with the latter three essentially being a trilogy. Kudos to the later movies for staying consistent with Freddy's abilities, however: he seems to want to possess fetus Jacob in 5 the same way he possessed Jesse here. Kudos, as well, to New Nightmare for bringing the "You are all my children now" line back. I'd like to think that was Robert Englund's idea, since I'm assuming Wes Craven never watched 2.

It's a shoddy film, but I find FREDDY'S REVENGE to be more interesting than parts 4-6. I'll watch it any day over those three. Maybe over the self-serious NEW NIGHTMARE as well.

I kinda agree with BS. He makes valid points. Especially in hindsight and looking at where the series went. I'm just not really bothered by anything until the shitfest of FREDDY'S DEAD though. That one actually pissed me off.

Part 4 used to be my favorite until I rewatched the first four a few months ago. I couldn't believe how bad it was. Visually I think it's the best. And that's what won me over all these years, I think. Bart, I think I responded to much the same things you did in part 2. The texture and seediness of the film in some ways was never matched in the series. But it IS awful, all in all. Big surprise, I enjoyed 3 the most, despite much of Nancy's involvement being beyond believability. 5 and 6 are, for me, the absolute worst. I never had the interest or the patience for New Nightmare. I didn't want a reinvention of the franchise. Still doesn't do anything for me on the level of the idea.

Well, honestly, I don't know how you can hold it against 2 that none of the characters feel real, if you're comparing it to the other films in the series.

The film does have a weird tone (after school special comparison is apt) for a NIGHTMARE film, but viewing it as stand-alone, just as a movie, it presents a more cohesive narrative than, say 4 or 5, which are just assembled bits riding the big wave 3 made. 2's cardinal sin was not riding the big wave 1 made.

I used to hate the movie, but watching the whole series end-to-end made me realize it has merit. That's not to say it is a good. I just don't think it deserves to be singled out for poor quality in filmmaking. Especially since pretty much everyone would agree that it has the scariest Freddy. That's something.

NEW NIGHTMARE isn't so much a re-invention as a side-step. I don't think anyone intended to sequelize that film.

FREDDY'S REVENGE is similar to HALLOWEEN III in that they are both sequels nobody wanted, but by going off point they end up being a little more interesting than some of the entries that play it straight (no pun intended).

Yeah, FREDDY'S REVENGE is way more of a body horror film than an actual shasher movie. It would have been neat to see the series sort of expand and take in other aspects of the horror genre as it went on, all loosely pinned around Kruger.

It's a possession movie more than anything.

Yeah, you're right about that. And your Halloween 3 comparison is bang on. The thing is that Freddy as a character really opened up a bunch of possibilities that the film never really dwelled on. I'd argue that the later Freddy movies, particularly 4 and 5, are more like Saw style torture porn than traditional slasher films.

Well in the Friday or Halloween films they could ramp up the kill count, with Freddy they seemed to keep the mortality rate fairly low (I think the fourth film might have the most onscreen death) but instead focused on the protracted suffering Freddy is dishing out. In the original Freddy stalk and harrasses, but the kills are quick and brutal. By number 4 he's drawing out deaths for minutes at a time. As such the films become more about how Freddy tortures people and less about the stalk and slash aspect.

Pool party notwithstanding, still say it's the scariest Freddy.

I mean, Scariest Freddy is a very short race. 1 is the only other competition.

I'd have to call it 1 by a nose. It's hard to see from this end, what with Freddy squirt guns and all, but if you watch it with the thought that nobody knows who or what Freddy is he's much more menacing.

I'd say it's also due to New Line keeping the budgets of the films at a reasonable level. It's cheaper for Freddy to kill fewer people on screen than his slasher counterparts. Freddy's kills, especially once you got into the more elaborate dark fantasy imagery of the third film, are going to cost considerably more to produce on screen than the slash and hack kill sprees that Jason and Michael went on in each of their franchise's installments. It's not a coincidence that the fourth film has the most onscreen dream deaths and also the highest budget given to a Nightmare film.

Wow. Those toys. And I thought the big head Jason figurine adorning my desk was silly.

1 is such a better film, it's always gonna win in an overall sense. But I think if you removed just the scenes where Freddy is on camera and compared the two, 2 might win. Though I've never done this. So who is to say?

I kinda wish I'd had that squirt gun back in my neighborhood-water-fight days.

I like the trend that 2 starts of Freddy being a leech that needs the protagonist. In 4 he needs Alice to suck other people into her dreams, 5 he needs Jacob, 6 he needs his daughter as transport to other towns, New Nightmare has Nancy needing to accept his existence, and FvJ needs Jason to spread the fear. Even the remake has Nancy and Joy Division kid being used because their memories give Freddy power.

I appreciate the Freddy as leech/parasite/virus metaphor. Taken from a Marxist perspective, Freddy is an assault on the 80s class system, especially since Springwood and Elm Street specifically looks to be an upper middle class kind of place. Freddy, with his grungy clothes, janitor job, and less than genteel attitude, forces the rich to acknowledge the dark underbelly of society.

With Freddy being an orphan fom obvious poor roots, I'm sure he gets a kick out of killing these Beverly Hills-wannabes.

Very true. I believe Freddy only kills one person in FVJ. 1.5 kills if you count possessing the Jason Mewes lookalike and making him attack Jason.

They just needed Freddy diapers to top that.

Yeah, but Jesse was under Freddy's influence. And of course a bondage bar is the kind of place the rich would indulge in under the cover of darkness but would never discuss during the day, just like vigilante justice.

As for Freddy merchandise, I loved the little kid running around in a Freddy mask and glove in The Wedding Singer.