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How to win, pt 3: Outsource the vote to private companies owned by Republicans

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Report: E-Voting companies being charged with counting votes

David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Thursday August 21, 2008

Although many states have rejected electronic voting machines because of their vulnerability to errors and outright fraud, a third of the nation will still be using them this fall.

What's worse, notes CNN's Lou Dobbs, "a new report says election officials often are outsourcing their responsibilities to the very companies that make the e-voting machines, even trusting those companies to count the votes."

That report (pdf) was issued by voting rights group VotersUnite.Org, whose founder Ellen Theisen told CNN, "Elections should be accountable to the people and run by public officials who are selected by the people. ... When that's handed over to private vendors, these public elections are no longer public."

The problem is particularly serious when voting machine companies also tabulate the votes, because the companies own both the equipment and the propriety software which runs it and election officials have no way of double-checking their tally.

The VotersUnite report concludes, "The depth of the current dependence is shocking, but even more shocking is the fact that our elections are dependent on vendors whose records reveal their unethical and even unlawful behavior, as well as their incompetence."
More here.
post #2 of 20
So, how would you recommend national election votes get tallied YT? I see a lot of posts about corruption but I don't believe I've seen what alternatives you're for posted.
post #3 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
So, how would you recommend national election votes get tallied YT? I see a lot of posts about corruption but I don't believe I've seen what alternatives you're for posted.
That's not yt's job. It's up to Washington to come fourth and admit there's a giant flaw in our democratic election process first. Once that happens, we can move forward and create a better system. Nobody can say there is absolutely no other solution.
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
That's not yt's job. It's up to Washington to come fourth and admit there's a giant flaw in our democratic election process first. Once that happens, we can move forward and create a better system. Nobody can say there is absolutely no other solution.
Clearly you're forgetting that the burden of proof is always on those who state that we obviously need change at a higher level. I'm disappointed in you, Parker!
post #5 of 20
Didn't Iowa get rid of all their electronic voting machines and return to paper ballots after a huge mess in 2006?
post #6 of 20
Maybe I phrased it poorly, I'm not saying YT needs to come up with a solution, I'm asking if she has FOUND a solution and it isn't used or only used in some states. If she has a recommendation that is better.

My view, there has been voter tampering since recorded history and it doesn't matter what methodology you do or use or what oversight you have there will always be tampering. It's not a Republican thing, it's a human race thing. I am for transparency and at least ATTEMPTING to reduce the amount of it however.
post #7 of 20
Here's a crazy idea: try using paper ballots, counted by non-partisan volunteers, with witnesses from both parties present if required. I know this system has a desperate lack of little flashing lights and video game noises to keep people interested in voting, but I have a crazy hunch it might work. Based on the fact that it worked for several hundred years beforehand.

Snaieke's douchebaggery and moral equivocation aside, it's simply not as easy to cheat under the old system. The US is replacing it with a system that makes it VERY easy to cheat. Because it has TECHNOLOGY!!!!, you see.
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
Here's a crazy idea: try using paper ballots, counted by non-partisan volunteers, with witnesses from both parties present if required. I know this system has a desperate lack of little flashing lights and video game noises to keep people interested in voting, but I have a crazy hunch it might work. Based on the fact that it worked for several hundred years beforehand.

Snaieke's douchebaggery and moral equivocation aside, it's simply not as easy to cheat under the old system. The US is replacing it with a system that makes it VERY easy to cheat. Because it has TECHNOLOGY!!!!, you see.
No. That would never work. I suggest they go one step further and use strategically located psychics to gather the election results out of the ether. The results would then get pooled and put as parameters into a random number generator. This would produce a telephone number. The person answering the phone would be then asked to flip a coin that would determine who the next president would be.
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
Here's a crazy idea: try using paper ballots, counted by non-partisan volunteers, with witnesses from both parties present if required. I know this system has a desperate lack of little flashing lights and video game noises to keep people interested in voting, but I have a crazy hunch it might work. Based on the fact that it worked for several hundred years beforehand.
I basicly wanted to post this.

It should not even be a question really. After Florida 02 and the subsequent voting-disasters one might think this issue would be solved by now. At the end of the day one might think that the actual process of voting is a vital part of the hollow thing called democracy.

But then again no one who is about to get voted seems to really want that, do they?
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
I'm pretty much for manual counting and paper ballots as well, and keep the vote out of private hands. Election systems need to be conformed also, since everything can be transparent, fair and honest in one state, and utterly corrupt and disastrous the next state over.

It is one of the most fundamental aspects of our democracy, and this rush to privatize has nearly destroyed it.
post #11 of 20
I'm completely against hand counting, this is a process that should be fully automated. Not to mention that a touch screen is more usable and easier to adapt in all kinds of situations (disabilities, different languages, etc).

Since there is so mistrusts of these companies, the government should just sponsor an open project for the hardware and open source development of the software, lead by an organization created by the fed. govt.

Make it open and transparent, allow people to check their votes online (and to vote online eventually) and you can still keep a paper trail of receipts as backup in case there is some problem with the system.

This is not a hard problem to solve at all, just need more initiative and leadership from the government.
post #12 of 20
Boy, the Republicans sure haven't gotten their money's worth, then, after getting rolled in the Congressional elections in '06...
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors View Post
Boy, the Republicans sure haven't gotten their money's worth, then, after getting rolled in the Congressional elections in '06...
So unless the fraud is massive and obvious, let's not give a shit, is that it?
post #14 of 20
If the Republicans' evil scheme for world domination includes them losing both houses of Congress in spectacular fashion, the conspiracy runs deep indeed.
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I'm completely against hand counting, this is a process that should be fully automated.
Why? I really don't get where you're coming from. The primary concern with something as important as an election should be to make it as tamper-proof and verifiable as possible. Automation and comfort should be nowhere near the top priorities.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I'm completely against hand counting, this is a process that should be fully automated. Not to mention that a touch screen is more usable and easier to adapt in all kinds of situations (disabilities, different languages, etc).
I don“t agree that a touchscreen is necessarily easier to use than a pen and a piece of paper.

And I wonder how countries all over Europe handle their elections over the decades with just pen and paper without having any serious trouble about the validity of the votes.
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors View Post
If the Republicans' evil scheme for world domination includes them losing both houses of Congress in spectacular fashion, the conspiracy runs deep indeed.
Oh fer chrissakes. Hyperbole much? No one's accusing anyone of a massive evil conspiracy. But if there's corruption in the process it needs to be addressed, period. And if the machines are making mistakes, as they were in Iowa, that needs to be addressed. I don't want EITHER SIDE to get screwed.
post #18 of 20
I totally agree with you Jake. My comment was directed more towards yt, whose "How to win" series has contained allegations against the Republicans ranging from unlikely to completely preposterous.
post #19 of 20
Fair enough.
post #20 of 20
I don't think it's really possible to have a 100% fair, uncorrupted tally of the votes, whether thats done by hand or machine. Something will always be inevitably screwed up.

Granted, it should be simple, but we're dealing with the human race here.
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