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The Long Halloween

post #1 of 28
9/5/08 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
Love the art to pieces, but I honestly found the story kind of opaque at times. I'm not particularly a comic book guy so I don't know if this is standard procedure but it just seemed like it was the shorthand form of the story.

I mean the effect is kind of cool and gives each segment a bizarre sort of dreamlike quality, but it also made the narrative seem vaguely not there. Case in point being Harvey Dent amassing an army of supervillains days after he's escaped the hospital.

I suppose the question I'm asking is are there issues of the comics that appeared inbetween issues of the Long Halloween that weren't collected in the graphic novel?
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post #2 of 28
9/5/08 at 4:51pm
No.

(Please note I'm going into detail about the story. So the ones who bitch about spoilers can fuck off)

The 13 issues in the Trade Paperback are the 13 issues. There's Dark Victory which is the sequel and Catwoman: When In Rome which is set between the two stories.

There were a couple of pages cut out which tried to explain away the Alberto Falcone murder and a little epilogue where Alberto and Calendar Man are sniping at each other. Those were re-inserted back into the absoulute edition.

I assume you are referring to the ending. It's been talked about before. A bit strange but you figure that Gilda was in on it.

It's also the time when Gotham converts from being mob-owned to "freak"-owned. Something that Nolan took and acknowledge as such with Begins and Dark Knight.
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post #3 of 28
9/5/08 at 5:24pm
I bought this trade on recommendation from various sources. I can't stand this story, and I find the art ugly. This is right there with Jeph Loeb's Hush storyline in the nonsense mystery, with a villain an issue. I have yet to read something good from Jeph Loeb.
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post #4 of 28
9/5/08 at 5:26pm
It's actually my favorite comic story with a mainstream superhero as the central character.
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post #5 of 28
9/5/08 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by James May View Post
I bought this trade on recommendation from various sources. I can't stand this story, and I find the art ugly. This is right there with Jeph Loeb's Hush storyline in the nonsense mystery, with a villain an issue. I have yet to read something good from Jeph Loeb.
You must not be a fan of Tim Sale then?
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post #6 of 28
9/5/08 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
You must not be a fan of Tim Sale then?
Not really. I'll take Darwyn Cooke over Tim Sale any day of the week.
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post #7 of 28
9/5/08 at 5:41pm
Well there ya go. If you didn't like the guy's art and you clearly don't like Loeb. You're not going to like the story.
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post #8 of 28
9/5/08 at 5:49pm
I love it, but I can see how it might have worked better waiting a month between chapters instead of reading them all in a row.
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post #9 of 28
9/5/08 at 5:51pm
Yeah, that reveal of Alberto must've been a big kick in the balls. Of course when Dark Victory was coming out, I picked it up month per month. I can tell ya there was some drama there. That's for sure.
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post #10 of 28
9/5/08 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by James May View Post
I bought this trade on recommendation from various sources. I can't stand this story, and I find the art ugly. This is right there with Jeph Loeb's Hush storyline in the nonsense mystery, with a villain an issue. I have yet to read something good from Jeph Loeb.
Feel pretty much the same. It also seems very repetitive despite not being all that long. I'm similarly baffled by all the praise for The Dark Knight Returns, although I understand that its effect in shaping the industry is part of the acclaim. The only famous Batman story I've read that really delivered was The Killing Joke (once you accept that the vigilante character is somehow the face of law and due process in the story).
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post #11 of 28
9/5/08 at 5:53pm
Then what's your opinion of Year One then?
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post #12 of 28
9/5/08 at 6:09pm
I didn't get much out of The Long Halloween, either. I haven't regularly read mainstream comics for a long time, but I enjoyed Year One and really like The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight Returns.

The story itself behind The Long Halloween doesn't seem bad but I didn't think they told it very well. It also bugs me that this is supposed to be another "early adventures of Batman" type story but the entire rogues' gallery is already well-established and there's too much "superhero" Batman for what is supposed to be a detective story.
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post #13 of 28
9/5/08 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
I didn't get much out of The Long Halloween, either. I haven't regularly read mainstream comics for a long time, but I enjoyed Year One and really like The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight Returns.

The story itself behind The Long Halloween doesn't seem bad but I didn't think they told it very well. It also bugs me that this is supposed to be another "early adventures of Batman" type story but the entire rogues' gallery is already well-established and there's too much "superhero" Batman for what is supposed to be a detective story.
It's funny you say that because TLH is often one of the main books praised for showing off the detective skills of the character, whether it be going through crime scenes or rounding up mobsters to find out information.
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post #14 of 28
9/5/08 at 6:30pm
And I like the detective, mobster-rousting parts of it. But the shoehorning in of Bats' entire rogues gallery feels out of place and makes a mess of what could've been (IMHO) a much tighter, more Year One-esque story.
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post #15 of 28
9/5/08 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
And I like the detective, mobster-rousting parts of it. But the shoehorning in of Bats' entire rogues gallery feels out of place and makes a mess of what could've been (IMHO) a much tighter, more Year One-esque story.
Agreed, except for the Year One part, since I haven't read it.
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post #16 of 28
9/5/08 at 6:58pm
Loeb has stated that he actually intended for LH to be a sora sequel to Year One. It's been awhile since I've read either of those, but isn't there enough time between the two that shows that Batman has kicking ass long enough in Gotham to put away enough of his reactionary rogues?
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post #17 of 28
9/5/08 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Alive! View Post
Loeb has stated that he actually intended for LH to be a sora sequel to Year One. It's been awhile since I've read either of those, but isn't there enough time between the two that shows that Batman has kicking ass long enough in Gotham to put away enough of his reactionary rogues?
It is a sorta of sequel since it features The Roman front and center and then all the cops referenced in Year One: Loeb, Flass, Merkel, O'Hara, Pratt and someone else.

Jesus I know a lot of trivia.
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post #18 of 28
9/5/08 at 8:07pm
Literally dozens of miniseries and arcs tried to be follow-ups to Batman: Year One. I liked Moench and Gulacy's 5 part "Prey" as a follow-up. It stole a handful of aesthetics from Year One (Gordon and Bruce's inner monologue captions) but cranked up the chroma, introduced the Bat Signal and the Batmobile, and re-interpreted Hugo Strange as a perv who liked to dress up as Batman. I kinda dug it at the time.
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post #19 of 28
9/5/08 at 8:16pm
I think I have that story line. I remember that one being a story in which Strange was a really bastard as a villian.

That and that three part Dark Knight story which took place in Bruce's mind after he was a car crash victim.
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post #20 of 28
9/5/08 at 8:23pm
THE LONG HALLOWEEN is one of the worst pieces of shit I've ever read. Nothing worse than a long, drawn-out mystery that provides virtually no clues, and with a resolution that makes no sense on the basis of the few clues given.

But it's OK, because it pads out the length by depicting a lot of ingenious confrontations between Batman and his supervillains! Like that time where he takes out the Scarecrow by jumping out of nowhere and punching him once! WHOOHOOO WHAT A RUSH.

Pathetic.
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post #21 of 28
9/6/08 at 12:33am
I read it LH as it came out on a monthly basis and as a monthly it worked. As a whole the story has potential but just does not deliver. Love the idea of "traditional Godfather" type mobsters dealing with Batman and the emergence of the freaks. The execution (esp the Joker issues) do not live up to the potential

I re-read the graphic novel version recently and was struck by how often Godfather is quoted as well as other films. And I mean quoted directly.

The Dark Kniight Returns still holds up if you can blank Miller's subsequent "work" out of your mind.
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post #22 of 28
9/6/08 at 2:26am
"I believe in Harvey Dent" was sort of pilfered from Long Halloween, which was pilfering from The Godfather (opening line: "I believe in America"/"I believe in Gotham City").
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post #23 of 28
9/6/08 at 2:30am
I was a bigger fan of The Killing Joke. I love the depth of the relationship between Batman and The Joker.
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post #24 of 28
9/6/08 at 11:39am
Jeph Loeb is actually quite shitty. Tim Sale makes this one.
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post #25 of 28
9/10/08 at 5:45pm
Yeah, I had always heard so much fanfare about this book, but was fairly disappointed when I finally read it. I like it ok, but it's nowhere near the "greats" (Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Killing Joke).

Between this and Heroes, I really don't think much of Loeb's abilities.

I recently tried to re-read The Long Halloween and couldn't even get through it. Ok art, not so ok writing.
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post #26 of 28
9/10/08 at 5:51pm
I re-read Long Halloween and Dark Victory this past weekend and found them still absolutely absorbing. I really think Loeb and Sale "get" Batman, both the Bruce Wayne side and the Batman side and how they threaten to tilt out of balance and plunge Batman into the madness he's trying to fight.
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post #27 of 28
9/11/08 at 6:12pm
Grant Morrison's amazing Batman work never gets the same credit as Alan Moore and Miller. Batman Gothic, and Arkham Asylum are wonderful.
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post #28 of 28
9/11/08 at 8:01pm
Read it only recently, was surprized at how much stuff (the mob guys, bits of dialogue, etc.) popped up in TDK. Reading Arkham Asylum 15th Anniversay Edition at the moment...well, finished the main story, reading the script stuff!
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