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The Sarah Palin Troopergate Thread

post #1 of 107
9/5/08 at 4:47pm
Thread Starter 
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...oopergate.html

How bad will it get?
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post #2 of 107
9/5/08 at 4:47pm
Thread Starter 
Pet Theory: W pardons her.
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post #3 of 107
9/5/08 at 4:54pm
Why do I get the feeling that the list of people Bush pardons will be kept secret as a matter of National Security? Either that, or Ken Lay's going to have to make room on his island for some old buddies.
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post #4 of 107
9/5/08 at 4:59pm
They already vacated Lay after he died.
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post #5 of 107
9/5/08 at 5:00pm
Well, my joke didn't work, then. That's what I get for posting sober.
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post #6 of 107
9/5/08 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie-wanker View Post
That's what I get for posting sober.
Never a good idea.
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post #7 of 107
9/5/08 at 5:20pm
Who knew that her ex-brother-in-law was Greg Grunberg?



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post #8 of 107
9/5/08 at 5:32pm
I think in theory it could get very bad. The fact that she went home for 2 weeks is to me a serious measure to try to bury the thing before the elections.
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post #9 of 107
9/5/08 at 5:35pm
Josh Marshall has been following the story before Palin was even announced as he's got the latest from the announcement today:

Quote:
The investigators up in Alaska have come out with their press release announcing how they plan to deal with Gov. Palin's stonewalling of the trooper-gate investigation. It seems Palin has now gotten seven others to also refuse to speak to the investigators (they all signaled their refusal to testify post-Palin announcement). And they've now decided to meet on September 12th to decide whether or not to issue subpoenas to compel testimony. However, they will not issue a subpoena for Palin herself. Why? The press release from the investigators says it's because: "She has told the public that she intends to cooperate with the investigation, indeed, she has told the public that she welcomes the investigation and I have every faith that she means it."

Now, this is a bit artful since just two days ago Gov. Palin made clear that she will not cooperate with the investigation. She is insisting that she will only provide testimony once the committee closes down its investigation and allows the probe to be taken over by the State Personnel Board made up of three members appointed by the governor. So she's saying she's not going to cooperate but they're insisting on taking her at her earlier promises to cooperate.

Now, there's some backstory here that's critical to understand. The point-man for the committee which voted to start the probe is Democrat Hollis French. However, the committee, that voted unanimously to begin the probe has a Republican majority.

So what if Palin just absolutely refuses to testify and continues to stonewall?

TPMmuckraker's Zack Roth just spoke to GOP Rep Jay Ramras, also a member of the committee. And he says no, that even if Palin refuses to cooperate, compelling her to testify would be "inappropriate conduct given the unique political circumstances" and "disrespectful."
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post #10 of 107
9/5/08 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
Pet Theory: W pardons her.
I'm not sure he can...is there any federal aspect to Troopergate?
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post #11 of 107
9/5/08 at 5:43pm
No from what I've heard. Clearly a state issue. Not to mention this smacks more of a civil concern than criminal. Although claims of abuse of power can be made.
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post #12 of 107
9/6/08 at 1:38am
Quote:
Alaskans Speak (In A Frightened Whisper): Palin Is “Racist, Sexist, Vindictive, And Mean”

by Charley James –

“So Sambo beat the bitch!”

This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama’s win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination.

According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat’s primary battle came up. The governor, seemingly not caring that people at nearby tables would likely hear her, uttered the slur and then laughed loudly as her meal mates joined in appreciatively.

“It was kind of disgusting,” Lucille, who is part Aboriginal, said in a phone interview after admitting that she is frightened of being discovered telling folks in the “lower 48” about life near the North Pole.

Then, almost with a sigh, she added, “But that’s just Alaska.”

Racial and ethnic slurs may be “just Alaska” and, clearly, they are common, everyday chatter for Palin.

Besides insulting Obama with a Step-N’-Fetch-It, “darkie musical” swipe, people who know her say she refers regularly to Alaska’s Aboriginal people as “Arctic Arabs” – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful “mukluks” along with the totally unimaginative “f**king Eskimo’s,” according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article.

But being openly racist is only the tip of the Palin iceberg. According to Alaskans interviewed for this article, she is also vindictive and mean. We’re talking Rove mean and Nixon vindictive.

No wonder the vast sea of white, cheering faces at the Republican Convention went wild for Sarah: They adore the type, it’s in their genetic code. So much for McCain’s pledge of a “high road” campaign; Palin is incapable of being part of one.
Continued at the link ... in brutal, painful detail.
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post #13 of 107
9/6/08 at 1:46am
This reads like a newsmax article.
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post #14 of 107
9/6/08 at 1:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
Continued at the link ... in brutal, painful detail.
Wow. I mean wow.

Sambo. That's old school. How utterly disgusting.

If it's not bait. This could be another trap. But it's certainly plausible.

EDIT - reading this.
Quote:
No legislative experience other than a city council of a village of 5,000 people, which is smaller than some high schools in Chicago.
Interesting wording for a story in LAprogressive.com, about an Alaskan village. Proves nothing but it's curious.

EDIT - The author's from Toronto, FWIW.
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post #15 of 107
9/6/08 at 2:02am
Yeah, then again, maybe a more, ahem, mainstream outlet will follow this line of questioning and see if there's a story there?

Yeeeeahh...no. Doesn't seem likely does it.
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post #16 of 107
9/6/08 at 2:11am
Well, there's the rub. We want good journalism to be good journalism; two independent confirming sources before going to print. The ol' Bradlee riding Woodward and Bernstein bar to rise to, or at least sources going on record with their full names and willing to risk the consequences.

I'm inclined to believe these stories, cause I've known my share of rednecks, but sometimes there's a reason the non-tabloid press doesn't leap on the blog leads. The material needs to be empirically substantiated, otherwise it's a left-wing swift-boating.

No need to hand over that ammo to the folks who manufactured it.
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post #17 of 107
9/6/08 at 2:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie-wanker View Post
Interesting wording for a story in LAprogressive.com, about an Alaskan village. Proves nothing but it's curious.

EDIT - The author's from Toronto, FWIW.
Well, you know the url tells you what the stories are about, at least that much is honest. But, really, there's a certain style of story and first page count on the front page that really tells you everything you need to know about how reliable any article in there is.
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post #18 of 107
9/6/08 at 2:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
Continued at the link ... in brutal, painful detail.
And Daily Kos will make it front page news and Palin will get even more sympathy from the public. Have we already forgotten last weekend? Let's get some people on record about this. In the meantime, back to business.

EDIT: Read the story. It jibes with how I feel about Sarah after Wednesday night. It makes my blood boil. It pushes all the right buttons. What that tells me is that until verified by real reputable news, I call shenanigans. It's Babygate 2.0 and we know how that went.
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post #19 of 107
9/6/08 at 3:55am
I agree. The important thing is that John McCain the reformer is going to block an investigation into corruption for someone in his own party, er, ticket. Sound familiar?
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post #20 of 107
9/6/08 at 6:09am
Thread Starter 
I honestly don't get the Palin love. I don't want politicians to be just like me, and when they pretend, they're usually the worst possible thing (cfi: GWB). On top of the fact that she's been in the global political universe for exactly one week. But the fact that she left Wasilla with a ton of debt (19-23 Million) after entering with a surplus, the fact that she played Right wing rhetorical games to get in office, along with lying about the whole bridge to nowhere business, and then the troopergate stuff... She may very well be a racist, but that's not the best reason to distrust her. Of course the Right wanted to smear Obama with Rezko, but how did he handle that? By sitting down and answering questions. I hope she goes supernova fast.
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post #21 of 107
9/6/08 at 11:09am
America has always had a preference for candidates "just like us," I suppose it validates the whole pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps, protestant work ethic, any-child-can-grow-up-to-be-president thing we've always had. I think it was a NY Times columnist who was recently pointing out, though, that we've moved away from "philosopher kings" who managed to impress the electorate by being able to empathetically relate to the common man (like FDR and Kennedy) and with W completed the shift to actually electing a "common" man in the worst sense. Lowest common denominator. Palin's appeal seems to be more of that, she literally could be the big fish in any Small Town, USA pond, warts and all. 6 colleges in 5 years? Sounds like plenty of folk from my home town.

Personally, I'd like a president who is a little smarter and works a little harder than me, but I'm just insane that way.
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post #22 of 107
9/6/08 at 11:20am
I don't think comparing Bush to Palin is remotely close.

Bush had name recognition and Gore had the taint of the Clinton impeachment, it was the perfect storm to get him barely elected in the first place. If it wasn't for 9/11 there wouldn't have been a second term. I fail to see how anyone doesn't understand this and tries to imply it is 'common man' appeal.
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post #23 of 107
9/6/08 at 11:47am
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if what that waitress says is true. Nothing to base it on, but my gut tells me she's that kind of woman.
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post #24 of 107
9/6/08 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
I don't think comparing Bush to Palin is remotely close.

Bush had name recognition and Gore had the taint of the Clinton impeachment, it was the perfect storm to get him barely elected in the first place. If it wasn't for 9/11 there wouldn't have been a second term. I fail to see how anyone doesn't understand this and tries to imply it is 'common man' appeal.
I don't think you can pinpoint directly what the cause of Bush's rise to power was. I would argue that his elections in 2000 and 2004 had more to do with the massive clusterfuck of opinions of the Democratic Party and how they really couldn't agree to do anything during the campaign and they were just so god damned unorganized that they didn't get a grasp of their act until it was too late.

Gore tried his absolute hardest to step back from the Clinton legacy, but that was the problem. He had no real legacy to speak of outside his environmental record (and back then, a good environmental record didn't get you shit.) By stepping back from the campaign and being his own man, he lost a lot of the firepower he could have used against GWB. I realize that hindsight is 20-20, but Gore would have been better suited running after his global warming campaign. He is well-liked even moreso by people who wouldn't have voted for him in 2000 (I was one of them.)

As for Kerry, his campaign was terribly unorganized and it didn't have a real message outside of Fuck Bush. It's not going to get you elected at all and I just feel that way about McCain-Palin. It's Fuck Obama this time and I don't think it will play that way, nor should it.

As for the "common man" appeal, our greatest president ever was more common at his birth than any of these people including Palin. The point is that "common man" appeals are still valid, but they've got to act like "common men." Bush was never common in his life and neither has any of these candidates running for office. "Common Men" don't have to be retarded either.
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post #25 of 107
9/6/08 at 12:37pm
This should be the Sarah Palin scandal thread as there will be many.

This just about proves McCain didn't investigate her at all. And she really can't be going home for 2 weeks? Link? I jus can't see that being true.
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post #26 of 107
9/6/08 at 1:03pm
Ben Smith, from politico.com

Quote:
Howard Fineman reported tonight (and I heard something similar) that Sarah Palin will, after a brief stretch on the trail, head back to Anchorage and away from the national media.

"They're basically taking Palin back to Alaska," said Fineman, citing a senior McCain campaign official.

Fineman's source (and mine) said she'd spent much of the time between now and the middle of next week (when her son leaves for Iraq) straightening her affairs, tending to her official duties and packing her bags — having departed abruptly for the national stage. She also seems unlikely to do many major media interviews between now and then, and the campaign seems to feel no urgency about putting her on the Sunday shows.

The campaign will "also use the plane time and time on the ground to begin the education of Sarah Palin," Fineman said. "They want to take that pause to train."

Also, youtube link of Fineman speaking about this to Olbermann:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh-HFZ8I_0Y

No mention of two weeks, but about a week...
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post #27 of 107
9/6/08 at 1:40pm
Quote:
According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat’s primary battle came up.
I can't get a waitress to remember to put my salad dressing on the side. Are all the attention-paying waitreses in Alaska? Damn.
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post #28 of 107
9/6/08 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
I can't get a waitress to remember to put my salad dressing on the side. Are all the attention-paying waitreses in Alaska? Damn.
Bet she was a lousy tipper. Wait staff never forget those.
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post #29 of 107
9/6/08 at 2:06pm
As a former inattentive waiter, I would say that if the governor was in my section making slurs against my race, I may have remembered it.

Maybe. Waiters really, really don't give a fuck about their customers.
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post #30 of 107
9/6/08 at 2:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
I fail to see how anyone doesn't understand this and tries to imply it is 'common man' appeal.
You don't think part of Bush doing as well as he did has anything to do with his mockery of Gore's stiffness, and his "I'm from Texas" tude, and his gaffes? With both Gore and Kerry, part of Bush's attack was "look at the elitists." That's republicans stock in trade. McCain plays it (Beer heiress wife) Romney played it (Millionaire), etc. etc. Republicans spent the convention making fun of Obama for being a community organizer. "That's so weird, useless, and maybe a bit creepy."
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post #31 of 107
9/6/08 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
You don't think part of Bush doing as well as he did has anything to do with his mockery of Gore's stiffness, and his "I'm from Texas" tude, and his gaffes? With both Gore and Kerry, part of Bush's attack was "look at the elitists." That's republicans stock in trade. McCain plays it (Beer heiress wife) Romney played it (Millionaire), etc. etc. Republicans spent the convention making fun of Obama for being a community organizer. "That's so weird, useless, and maybe a bit creepy."
Precisely. That's how he appealed to the beer-drinkin' crowd, by making fun of the stuffy egghead liberals. My parents and their friends bought that shit hook, line, and sinker. A lot of them thought of him as a genuinely funny, down-to-earth guy that was a 'true Texan', whatever that's supposed to mean.
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post #32 of 107
9/6/08 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Precisely. That's how he appealed to the beer-drinkin' crowd, by making fun of the stuffy egghead liberals. My parents and their friends bought that shit hook, line, and sinker. A lot of them thought of him as a genuinely funny, down-to-earth guy that was a 'true Texan', whatever that's supposed to mean.
Is anybody else starting to get the sinking feeling that McCain is going to take this thing, or am I just suffering from red state paranoia?

I'm not going to lie, Obama doesn't do it for me like I wish he did, but Jesus, the thought of four more years of this bullshit is more than I can take.
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post #33 of 107
9/6/08 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Fordyce View Post
Is anybody else starting to get the sinking feeling that McCain is going to take this thing, or am I just suffering from red state paranoia?
See if you feel that way once Palin get off The Bush scriptwriters lines. Wait till reporters have a couple weeks in Alaska and the real truth about Palin comes out. Wait till Palin answers her first question.

Not worried at all.
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post #34 of 107
9/6/08 at 3:44pm
The point isn't that Palin is like Bush in style. Although clearly she is the same fucking brand repackaged for 2008. (Now with boobs!) The point is McCain is stonewalling a corruption investigation approved unanimously by a GOP-controlled Senate, while trying to claim the mantle of reformer and party maverick. If it didn't work so well on a populace that likes to hear that kind of drivel, I'd laugh it off.

ETA:
Something tells me Palin will be interviewed like Colbert, minus the irony. "So, are you more qualified than Obama, or are you more qualified than the entirety of the Democrat party?"
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post #35 of 107
9/6/08 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Fordyce View Post
Is anybody else starting to get the sinking feeling that McCain is going to take this thing, or am I just suffering from red state paranoia?

I'm not going to lie, Obama doesn't do it for me like I wish he did, but Jesus, the thought of four more years of this bullshit is more than I can take.
Honestly, I think it's largely paranoia. The Republicans are just coming off the unveiling of their big shiny new star, and the luster isn't going to last. Meanwhile, they have exactly one issue they can actually talk about, and that's Petraeus saying we can set timetables for withdrawal because the surge worked. It's a good point for McCain, but the more it makes Iraq seem like a done deal, the more it undercuts the need to elect him just to keep Obama from losing the war. The fact that they want to run an election on character does not bode well when they're running against a candidate who has 10x the charisma and personality of their guy. And when you factor in Obama's ability to bring out young and black voters (demographics easily overlooked by traditional polling), I think there is potential for a lot of "what the hell happened?" from the punditry come November. It's not a slam dunk, but I'd say McCain is still the one fighting uphill, and carrying more baggage to boot.
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post #36 of 107
9/6/08 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Fordyce View Post
Is anybody else starting to get the sinking feeling that McCain is going to take this thing, or am I just suffering from red state paranoia?

I'm not going to lie, Obama doesn't do it for me like I wish he did, but Jesus, the thought of four more years of this bullshit is more than I can take.
I agree with others that McCain is the one who has the uphill battle. Even during August in the worst of the withering attacks on Obama, he wasn't able to get ahead in the polls. In fact I think there was maybe one day where McCain surged ahead a 2 whole points but that was only for a day. I think Palin's star is going to drop quite a bit after the debates but then again she could surprise. We'll see!
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post #37 of 107
9/6/08 at 6:04pm
Obama has the electoral votes right now. Eight weeks is a long time, though.
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post #38 of 107
9/6/08 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Obama has the electoral votes right now. Eight weeks is a long time, though.
8 weeks is a long time and with the introduction of George Bush in a skirt some of those states we're close in are probably going to be harder to keep. If the election is about the issues, Obama wins. If it's about noise, then Palin.
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post #39 of 107
9/6/08 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Howard Fineman reported tonight (and I heard something similar) that Sarah Palin will, after a brief stretch on the trail, head back to Anchorage and away from the national media.
What, is the national media not allowed in Anchorage? Last time I checked Alaska was one of the UNITED STATES.
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post #40 of 107
9/6/08 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie-wanker View Post
What, is the national media not allowed in Anchorage? Last time I checked Alaska was one of the UNITED STATES.
Well, not if Todd Palin has his way.

By the way, try telling your conservative friends that Jill Biden or Michelle Obama used to be a member of a political party that advocates secession and see what kind of response you get. It's good, clean fun.
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post #41 of 107
9/6/08 at 11:22pm
God damn America, indeed.
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post #42 of 107
9/7/08 at 12:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
He's not black.
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post #43 of 107
9/7/08 at 12:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
It was never about crazy ass sermons and all about the scary black man. Rod Parsley never bothered the Palin base and I'm sure this guy would be less so.
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post #44 of 107
9/10/08 at 2:28am
Abusive pattern established? The trooper in question might be a tool, but if all these other objective observers saw fit to leave Wooten well enough alone, then why should Palin get away with allegedly firing people for not following through on some personal vendetta?
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post #45 of 107
9/10/08 at 2:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
I certainly don't think this should be used to tar Palin by association. I do think she should be asked about it, and asked about her response to it. I don't think these questions are going to be allowed - everything is photo-op and PR from here on out. McCain/Palin has become a psy-op.
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post #46 of 107
9/12/08 at 8:23pm
So the investigation findings come out a month before the election:

Quote:
The judicial committee that started looking into Troopergate is actually composed of eight Republicans and four Democrats, though not all Republicans in Alaska are fans of Palin. But the chairman, Hollis French, is a Democrat who made several ill-advised comments in media interviews that suggested he had already concluded Palin was lying, including mentioning an "October surprise" and using the word impeachment. So the McCain campaign and Palin's attorney and allies in Alaska have been trying to paint the investigation as a partisan witch hunt. French and his committee have tried to address those concerns — he says he didn't subpoena Palin because he believes she'll eventually cooperate and because he wants to "de-escalate" the tension. The committee has also moved up the scheduled release date of its report from Oct. 31 to Oct. 10, claiming it doesn't want any of its findings to come out so close to Election Day.
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post #47 of 107
9/13/08 at 2:36am
Hollis French is the chair of the committee but the actual investigation is being conducted by someone else.
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post #48 of 107
9/14/08 at 1:41am
Newsweek is nailing this story.

Quote:
Eleven years before the current investigation into her dismissal of Alaska's top cop, Sarah Palin was embroiled in a similar dispute over another personnel issue: her firing of the police chief in her hometown of Wasilla. Palin's decision to terminate Irl Stambaugh, months after she was elected mayor in 1996, created a ruckus. It also led to a bitter and protracted lawsuit charging that she fired Stambaugh out of pique—in part because he'd crossed the interests of influential backers, including bar owners and gun enthusiasts who'd contributed significantly to Palin's campaign, according to court and state records reviewed by NEWSWEEK. Palin denied these allegations under oath, and ultimately prevailed, after a federal judge concluded that the mayor had the right to fire any department head she wanted. Palin "made the decision ... because the people of Wasilla had elected her to reform Wasilla's government and he actively worked to frustrate those efforts," says Taylor Griffin, a spokesman for the McCain-Palin campaign.

But the dispute is now getting renewed scrutiny in light of a number of other controversial personnel moves by the GOP veep nominee, including her firing of the Wasilla librarian (she was later reinstated) and Alaska Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan, whose dismissal last summer prompted the investigation, dubbed "Troopergate," by Alaska's legislature. (Monegan alleged he was fired because he resisted pressure from Palin and aides to can a state trooper involved in a messy custody battle with Palin's sister. A state panel last week voted to subpoena 13 members of Palin's administration in the probe, as well as her husband.)

Stambaugh, a former Anchorage police captain who once supervised Monegan, was hired as Wasilla's first police chief in 1993 and created the town's small police force, says former Wasilla mayor John Stein. But weeks after Palin beat Stein in 1996, she expressed displeasure with the chief. One big issue, Stambaugh said, was that he and other police chiefs had opposed a state-legislature bill to permit concealed weapons in schools and bars, which Stambaugh called "craziness." But Palin, elected with backing from the National Rifle Association, which lobbied for the bill, told him she was "not happy" with his position, and that the NRA wanted him fired, says Stambaugh. Palin told him he "shouldn't have done that," Stambaugh told NEWSWEEK. (Palin denied in a deposition that the NRA contacted her about the weapons bill.)
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post #49 of 107
9/14/08 at 5:46am
a state-legislature bill to permit concealed weapons in schools and bars

What the sweet, holy fuck?
Retarded or plain evil, take your pick.
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post #50 of 107
9/14/08 at 12:05pm
What, you want the students and the drunks to just wave their guns around? Someone could get hurt.
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