Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles Season 2

I'm curious how Cameron survives being blown up. I suppose they just rebuild her, but considering she's an advanced model, I don't know how Sarah or John would know how to do that.

Edit: Just read the article. They are saying she was just engulfed in flames? Maybe I'm misremembering, but the car blew up, right? Like shit exploded and car parts went flying.

If it were just a fire, maybe I'd agree. But it was an explosion. I mean even Chrome Artie's head blew off in the bank explosion (granted the bank was rigged by The Resistance so they knew how much firepower was needed). But it seemed like the kind of thing that would do more damage to Cameron than just skin melting off.

Just rewatched it on Hulu, didn't seem like a big enough explosion to kill Cam, but it was definitely enough to do some serious damage. I mean, we know she's coming back anyway, so it'll be interesting to see how they manage to patch her up.

Like I said, I hadn't watched the episode since it aired. But I remember it being a big "holy shit!" moment.

I finally caught up on this show and I'm thinking that at worse Cameron should walk away with not much more than some burnt off skin. Then again, the Terminators in this show seem far less durable than the ones from the movies. I mean, Arnie took some serious abuse in order to lose a piece or two, including the chopper pile-up at the end of T3 which left him no worse for wear, while one feller in the show lost a hand just by grabbing on to a passing truck.

There's some spoilers at Beaks' house. Shirley Mason :: me drolling

All Cameron walked away with was a open wound on her face? Credibility, stretched. I'd take burnt skin and charred clothes at this point.

Gotta say, pretty terrible opening. The slow mo music montage almost did me in right there. And John and Sarah can think to rig a trap for Cameron, but they can't think to get a tool sharp enough to cut into her endoskeleton? Boo.

OK, the show is looking up. Pretty obvious Manson was a terminator, but a T-1000? Pretty sweet. I guess this makes her more advanced than Cameron. That'll make for good TV considering the previous models were less advanced than Cam.

I really liked Cameron pleading to John that she's better, breaking down and crying. Glau did about as well with that as is possible.

I've seen some pretty stupid stuff on scripted TV in 29 years, but John handing the gun over to the terminator, and Sarah just standing there watching (!) may have taken the cake.

Doesn't mean I'll stop watching, however. This show's too much of a guilty pleasure, and I'm kind of a Terminator nerd.

One last thing. VFX on television have really become damn good in recent years, but it's surprising that the T-1000 morphing STILL looks better in T2 even though that was made in 1991. Damn, that's coming up on 20 years - I suddenly feel old...

Man, I have to catch this on hulu. When does stuff start showing up on that? Day after?

I'm a Terminator fan, and this was my first full viewing.

Terminators don't fall in love.

This show is balderdash.

I take it you never read Terminator fanfiction then.

Tonights episode was AWESOME!

Loved the intro with the music (so finding that song) and how the big bad Sarah Conner got taken down by a buncha thugs and ended up breaking down at the end. I really like what they're doing with John's character and making him more of a man and a leader. Admittingly, I would have been happier if it turned out the gun was empty...

Hope Brian Austin Green sticks around a lot longer and I'm diggin the T-1000 storyline. ... really great first episode for this guilty pleasure.

Hopefully I'm not completely missing your sarcasm here, but Cameron was still trying to kill him at that point and she was lying to him, right? She still knew John had some horny teenage love for her and she was exploiting that, as John and Sarah said she would in the helpful priest's kitchen.

Totally thought Shirley Manson would be hiding in the stall at the end, a la Robocop. Her reveal as a T-1000 totally caught me off guard.

I thought they were doing the Robocop gag as well. This is a very entertaining and occasionally stupid show. Tonight's premiere was almost as bad as the first two episodes of the first season, but it didn't go to those depths. I'm digging where the season is going, but I hope B.A. gets to be badass soon.

hated the 5 minutes slow motion music intro... but enjoyed the rest. This show looks damn good in HD, even Shirley Manson's evil hairdo.

so to summarize, we have 3 terminators/natrixes running around town?

This is the show that Prison Break is trying to be, without any success. Yes, it's a bit stupid, but it's fun and kinda rewarding.

Go back and watch Season 1. It explains the rules they are following from the movies and which ones they aren't. And Bill is right, Cameron was pretending. Although it does come into question when she just magically overrode her mission objectives later on (or did I miss John fixing her CPU?).

Well, we have Chrome Artie, Cameron, and Manson (do we have a name for her?), but there's likely to be more. Remember last season there were Terminators all over the place collecting parts for Skynet, protecting warehouses, going after the Resistance teams, etc. Their missions aren't to kill John, but if they see him in their sights he's toast.

I think they did downplay the explosion a bit. They needed to have Cameron down for a bit, but not out, so it worked for me as the scene developed.

I think Cameron will be shown to have a different OS or AI that allows her to adapt better to the situation to protect John. Last season there was the Terminator who was acted as a husband for a while so the AI can get away with acting but I think Cameron will develop to actual feelings. Its going to be something John learns present to affect how he adapts her in the future to send Cameron back to protect him.

Like a lot of people, my standing for slagging this show for stupidity is eroded by the fact that I've willingly watched multiple episodes of Heroes.

Still...this show is getting dumber. A T-1000 corporate head? Not only does this show NOT have the budget to do those effects any sort of justice, but Shirley Manson is about as obviously "eeeeeeeevil" as can be. But as long as they've started programming Terminators with a Wordy & Esoteric Diatribe mode, all is forgiven?

Cameron just magically fixing/overriding herself? Cromartie openly following the FBI agent?

Really?

They know what John will become, the leader of the human revolution, and have been waiting for him to stop being the whining teenager and step up. He did that. I think they were letting him, despite the risk be that, person he's supposed to become.

According to the link in the first post, the writers aren't interested in Cameron learning about her human side. I hope they don't go that way either. It's been done.

The Shirley Mason character was certainly hinting at a computer doing divergent thinking, so not necesarily human feelings but an AI which is capable of thinking in human terms. There's the element that the human is more adaptable than machine, even for those that can morph, there's an element of "crossing against the light" than machines don't have.

I wouldn't call thinking irrationally uniquely human, but it is certainly more so than purely AI thinking. But thinking outside the box does not, and should not, equate with feelings. A machine can know the "right" thing to do, chose to do the opposite, and have a reason for doing so outside of emotion overriding logic.

Man, this show is dumb. I am still watching, but there are so many 'ugh!' moments, it's getting harder to give the show any respect.

This show has so many shortcomings. I think I just realized that it was John 16th birthday in last night's episode. So, that makes this show just like 90210, where every adult problem, emotion, and situation happens to a teenager, one that acts like he's 10 years older than he is. "When do I get to love?" When you grow up, punk.

I understand budget issues, but I don't like how everything happens in a microcosm of the world. There are never any bystanders around, the work environments they go through are always empty, they can never get away (c'mon, you can't drive away from an injured Terminator) and people show up at the slightest moments request.

I have to learn to fight through all the Ugh! moments, but it's getting harder to do. I keep hoping for something, some action, some new idea, and all I get is refurbished storylines that are old and dumb.

I don't think anyone respects the show. I fought through the same feelings last season when I felt like my favorite movie franchise got punched in the face. You just have to go into it as a guilty pleasure and not expect much more.

And I stand by my statement from last season that this is the worst John Connor ever (even worse than Furlong).

Well I have a feeling he'll become a better JC in this season. Making him tougher with a new hairdo that coincidentally looks exactly like the one Bale is sporting in T4. hmmmmmm....


I like this show a lot. It IS a guilty pleasure but I really like the characters. I don't think Cameron will start having feelings but they'll show us little bits that will make us question that, but I could see JC falling in some weird love with her over time.

It's 14,000 times better than Terminator 3.

I don't know, it's hard to judge. Until we see Bale, John has only been a whiny teenager, so the writing of the character is more to blame than anything else I think. Glad to see he ditched the emo hair, and hope they use Dean Winters more to his potential.

Maybe my memory has eroded over time, but wasn't the John Connor in T2 a whiny little bitch? I see to remember him throwing several tantrums. He doesn't even fire a weapon.

Your memory is correct. Also, I only saw T3 once (mercifully) and I really can't remember anything about that John, except that he was, well, forgettable. I think one of the problems with the franchise (at this point) is that John is the main focus (in 2 and 3, and in the plot at least of 1), but until he grows into his eventual role, he's not terribly interesting. He's a kid with a militant crazy mom. Hopefully, this show will be smart enough to get past the whole "What's going on?!?!" phase and get on with making him an interesting main character,not just the clay that Sarah is molding. Of course, that might be a bit to ask, considering the show is not called The John Connor Chronicles.

Thing is, Derek should know that he eventually gets to bang someone that's pretty cute, so it's not exactly going to be problem. Unless they ignore Kate Brewster, but still. Derek should be able to talk to him about all the righteous tail he must be getting by being the fucking savior of mankind. Check out the female portion of the cast list for the next movie. The future is not hurting for attractive females.

As for Furlong, he was much more proactive than any of the other John Connor's so far. When faced with the situation he was the one that wanted to go after his mom much more fiercely than say, Stahl's shoot himself in the head ploy, and did more breaking into stuff to contribute. Dekker's growing on me, but he needs to do more proactive war-effort stuff.

Thing is, John Connor is supposed to be a fairly mythic and inspiring person. Kyle Reese would die for him. Right now, none of them have been very convincing, even if they are young.

This. Yes, Furlong threw tantrums, but mainly it was when he desperately wanted/needed a mom and Sarah wasn't giving him that emotional assurance. But when it came to make decisions, he did it. Furlong's John was spunky and had ingenuity. He was hot-wiring ATMs at 10, riding scooters, and being a rebel. At that point in time, Sarah had already taken him to live with Enrique so John had intimate knowledge about guns and other weapons. NAd when Sarah ran off to kill Dyson, John figured it out before Arnie and led the way.

This series acknowledges the events of T2 (we met Enrique last season), yet its like John regressed. I guess the actor is trying to portray teenage angst, but he comes off as a whiny, little bitch. We saw a few times last season that he is still capable of hot-wiring things, but it seems like a last resort or his mom telling him what to do. neoolong hits the nail on the head. For me, I just need this John to be more proactive and accept responsibility for his future role (I still can't get over his whiny "I don't wanna be leader" of whatever he said to Sarah in Season 1).


As for the girlfriend discussion, the link in the first post says John will get a girl (not Cameron) this season. I expect a lot of whiny tantrums each ep after Sarah tells him to dump the girl.

I would say Sarah is just as whiny. She spends half the time groping John looking for injuries, crying if he's alright.

Throughout this series I think he's done plenty of stuff but as I mentioned earlier it's pretty clear that they are going to toughen him up now. Cutting the hair is pretty symbolic in that regard.

I think it is cool that character in a series develop over the course of seasons instead of a single episode.

Can't argue with the comment about Sarah (in the TV show) being just as whiny. However Sarah (in T2) was also constantly groping John to see if he was alright.

I'm all for character development, but if you are going to crib from an existing franchise, start John off with the same skills that he had previously. He shouldn't regress into an angsty emo.

Edit: to clarify

To be fair, wasn't that only when they initially broke her out and she hadn't seen him for quite a while? She's a mother, that's what mothers do.

Barring the planning on blowing a building up part.

I definitely agree with this. I do wonder if the creators/network are cautious about having John handle guns since it would be a teenager shooting the hell out of things. So far, it's been his hacker/computer skills so far hasn't it?

I don't trust the writers at all.

Example: I would like to believe that Cameron's pleas to John before he pulled the plug, especially the 'I love you' and all, were meant to be fake; a last ditch effort of a female terminator to save herself in the position she was in. So I was glad he pulled the chip, right after she said 'i love you'. I thought "they got that right." BUT, trusting absoultely nothing at all and giving her the gun makes no sense, unless the gun was empty, and unless she actually fires it, but with some sort of physical display of her attempting to disable her programming (like Arnie did in T3). I mean, how can you miss out on that opportunity there? Instead, she's just miraculously back to normal.

Well stupid as it was, they did show him fixing/cleaning the damaged chip. And also it shows why JC is going to be this strong leader. He takes risks!

Cameron is not free-willed. She told us that Reece had her reprogrammed. Additionally, she told Sarah not to let John bring her back to "life" again. It's not like she came back to protect John because she wanted to. It's her job.

I think it said "Terminate" because she had just booted up again and this had been the last command. Her system the reset itself after a few seconds now that her chip had been fixed.

Oh and at one point John says "I need her, she saved my life, she saves my life"

What does that mean?

Do you know why that is a question at all? Shitty writing. That is the answer.

The Special Edition cut of T2 has scenes about the ability of terminators to learn. They are sent back in time in read only mode. Read/Write Mode is possible and not used to prevent them from learning too much. Potentially to preven them from gaining free will.

Even the end of T2 suggests this, whereby Sarah speculates that "if a machine, a Terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too."

I'm not saying this is a good or bad way to go, but that it isn't something completely unknown in the franchise.

Exactly. Rewatched the ep. John was definitely fixing the CPU in the van ride over to the where they were going to burn her body. Cameron had to reboot and then the override could commence. Again, if it were about free will Cameron would NOT have made a point to tell Sarah never to let John do that again.

I'm pretty sure in Season 1 we learn that Cameron was John's protector in the future, or at least "saved is life" at some point before he sent her back in time. I need to rewatch Season 1 just to familiarize with the plotpoints.

Learning the value of a life is not the same as having feelings. Arnold even says "I now know why you cry, but it is something I can never do". He understands, but he can't experience it. (As an aside, if you haven't seen it, the deleted scene where John turns Arnie's learning chip on is great and tries to teach him how to smile is great. Some Chewer has it as their avatar.) I posted earlier that a Terminator's ability to override logic does not mean that it is able to emote. I'd argue becoming self-aware still doesn't equate with having feelings. One can have a desperate urge to "live" but not experience an emotional reaction to it. I mean, lower species can do that.

True, but I mostly meant that the idea of terminators becoming more than just unthinking machines has been established. They might not feel, but they can choose to act in ways contrary to their original programming.

Arnie in T3 fights against his programming as an example.