Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles Season 2 - Page 2

I hear you. I'm just trying to separate "fights against programming" and feelings. I really hope the show doesn't go into the latter, and the producers have said they weren't interested in exploring that.

I don't think it is free will as per say. In the case of Cameron's "overiding" and Arnold's in T3, I think it's more like a shortcircuit and instead of 1 program there are 2 programs running. Their CPU's then calculate their way to the most likely program to run.

But I'll still say that Cameron's "choice" is simply a matter of her rebooting and continuing where her last program stopped, but with the CPU being fixed now it automatically overrides the faulty program.

THIS

Well, I'm enjoying the show, no apologies.

I find it odd that some people are acting like the show is dumb, when they're the ones not understanding what seemed like simple enough scenes. Cameron was obviously lying when she professed her love for John, the fact that she's still in TERMINATE mode when rebooted makes that clear. Overriding that command was clearly not a matter of free will, as even still having the TERMINATE command at all indicates her "protect mode" is an override, and they showed John working on the chip (and had him talk about it).

As for being whiny... well, his life kinda sucks. He gets to watch other people being blissfully ignorant, while he lives in constant fear of death by metal, all the while knowing the apocalypse is imminent. I get whiny over crap far less crappy than that. Plus, it's a series with character arcs, and they're in episode 10 (in which he just killed a man)... people expect him to be mini-Bale already? How boring.

The show's not on the level of something like LOST, but dropping it into the same cesspool as HEROES is intellectually dishonest.

John reprogrammed Cameron's chip!

HA! Actually that clip reminds me that I merged two deleted scenes in my head. There's a scene where Arnold is damaged and talks John and Sarah through how to open up his head to get the CPU and fix him. Once the chip is out, Sarah goes nuts and tries to smash it, but John stops her and puts it back in. I guess Chronicles is cribbing liberally from the movies.

He reprogrammed it by wiping it with a cloth?

John did reprogram her, but in the future before he sent her back to him. It's entirely possible that he reprogramed the chip to override terminate mode after the chip was removed from Cameron. I'd have to go back and look at last season where the chip was removed.

Come on now. Why would he being cleaning the CPU? For shits and giggles? Let's put two and two together:

John whines to mommy that he can fix Cameron, he's seen manipulating the chip on the van ride over, he puts the chip in confident that Cameron would not kill him, and Cameron seeks out Sarah to tell her never to let John do that again. Do you really need a shot of John and a screwdriver to make the connection?

Personally, Cameron's words are the clincher for me. If she had free will, there would be no issue regarding whether John should reanimate her; she would just override her programming herself. But that's not the case. She follows orders.

He did mention is took damage but I think it's stretching it to say they found a place that had a computer that could read future code. Didn't he have trouble last season when he pulled the chip? He has to modify his computer to be able to read the code. A screwdriver is not going to be able to reprogram a chip.

I think we agree that she had a counter program which overrode her terminator porogram and we can agree John did the reprogramming.

By the way Diva, I am the one with the avatar. (How low I feel, you don't remember me even in this thread.)

And to farsight, I can name off the top of my head plenty of scenes in this episode that are flat out DUMB. And that's just one episode. You should be able to also. It's not about understainding what's happening. It's about storytelling, and the shortcuts this show takes.

When you couple so many dumb moments in a show, it makes it hard to believe the legitimate aspects of the story. It's why there is a whole conversation here about one single part of the show, which is an important plot point that the characters lives hang on.

I was joking about the screwdriver and agree we've spent way too much time talking about this topic.

Chris, I'm a 3rd year PhD student who just started my semester and who's brain is already frying from all the work already piling up!!! (also, I'm a dumb ass :P )

So why are people picking ones that are easily explained?

I dunno, maybe I'm just reacting because it seems like every thread for every movie/TV show/game lately (regardless of actual quality) is dominated by nitpicking. With regards to this show, I'll just say that if you viewed T2 with the same critical eye as this series, you'd have to hate it, as it has some of the most idiotic plot holes I've ever seen in a major movie.

I liked the premiere. I agree that the T2 from T-1000 could have killed John kinda quickly without the alluded plot holes.

The dumbest scene in this series was the one in the classroom in ep1. Instead of slowly walking to John's desk and crush his head, the terminator dug a gun out of his thigh. I lolled pretty heavily at that.

But I agree, nitpicking these TV shows serves no real purpose. You tend to nitpick the shows that don't fall in your taste and see through fingers with the shows you do like.

For the record, I am not nitpicking. I can suspend my disbelief quite easliy.

I am more refering to what I call UGH! moments, where you can't believe the writers did what they just did.

For example, put your self in this position: You are running away from a damaged terminator, so you get in a car and drive. You're safe, right? Until you crash into another car, and then drive in a different direction, down a tunnel that is perhaps 300-400 yards long, and who is waiting at the end of the tunnel, just standing there? Car punch!!! FUCKING UGH.

This series is full of them. For every instance they get right (Cameron's pleas of "I love you, John") they get soooo many others wrong.

And a plot hole is much different than lazy writing. I''l take a perfectionist-asshole creator James Cameron take every day over the pretenders writing this show.

And again, sue me, I will still watch.

Didn't see the T-1000 thing coming.
That was nice. Enough to bring me back for a few more weeks.

It's supposedly a T-1001.

And i know it's a Tv budget and all. But the 1991 effect looked better. 17 years. My god we are old.

I think it's enough to not totally pull me out of it. It's better than what you're going to see on Sci-Fi's crappy creature features.

Well, the 1991 film had a budget something like 100x (probably much larger after inflation) as large as this episode. I didn't see obvious green-screen or anything, so it didn't bother me.

As long as they aren't actually impossible, I'm more forgiving of coincidences when they are detrimental to the heroes. Plus, it led to good scenes, and avoided boring 'driving away for hours' scenes. Getting so worked up over it seems a little bit like picking at nits to me...

I'd say James Cameron made both the most entertaining installment of TERMINATOR, and the stupidest.

Yeah, I didn't find Sarah's inability to outrun a limping terminator to be that bad. As Farsight said, it led to some entertaining scenes. However, I did kind of roll my eyes when Cameron didn't kill Sarah after she said John wouldn't come back. But obviously this is the Sarah Connor Chronicles so I wasn't all that surprised. I do miss terminators actually terminating people. Other than the SWAT team massacre, have there been any deaths via the terminators?


Edit: Nevermind, Cameron killed Enrique (way cool scene) and Chrome Artie killed the actor and scientist. Derek's colleagues were also killed although their deaths were off-screen, I believe.

Actually, I believe it was shown in flashback/memory when they went through Vick's chip. First person mode even.

I think not hitting Cameron with the car was a tactical thing. A moving car wouldn't damage her enough to disable her, considering she was just blown up, and there was a very good chance the collision would damage their escape vehicle and leave them pretty vulnerable. It's not out of character for her to want to run when she's been shown worrying about John's condition.

Oh yeah. Man, I really do have to rewatch Season 1. For all the stupid moments, there were some really cool ones as well.

That was definitely the most questionable part. First, she can mimic voices, so shouldn't need to make her scream (I guess that part could've been damaged). Then the non-kill makes sense when you take into account how the Terminators in this show have repeatedly ignored non-targets they don't consider a threat.

The only thing is, I was thinking... wouldn't killing his mom make John easier to catch? But hey, I guess I'm smarter than a Terminator!

But once HEROES starts up, I don't even want to hear TERMINATOR mentioned as the dumbest or 2nd-dumbest (don't forget the virtual paint-huffing that is PRISON BREAK) show on monday night... wait, I think BOSTON LEGAL is moving to mondays, and that Christian Slater show will be on too... So good odds you won't even be able to claim TERMINATOR is the 4th-dumbest show on Mondays with a straight face!

Okay, I just looked up the listings, and also found Two and a Half Men and CSI SuperCaruso on mondays as well. Damn. For Monday fare, TERMINATOR is brilliant. QED.

The terminators are consistent in that programing of not killng as Cromeartie didn't kill the FBI Agent because he could be used to track John and Sarah, so Cameron might have had that in there, also, leaving her alive as a way to find John if he escaped.

I was surprised as well. Definitely one for my "Aw hell no" file.

P.S. Baby wipes + staple gun = win. Even if the car bomb should have messed Cameron up a lot more. Torn her clothes off, at least. Or am I projecting?

I'm getting uncomfortable with the Christianity motif. The references were a little more prominent this week, what with the Mission, Ellison's line about 'doing the devil's work', and the bible quote. I guess it all ties into people/humanity getting 'saved' and all (and of course it dates back to '92 with the 'Judgment Day' subtitle), but where is the show really going with it?

I don't think so. It was lazy and kinda lame quoting the bible I would prefer some other source let's say. And the delivery from Manson was bad (she is always sexy IMO).

Sexy? Really? She looks like the ghost of a ghost

Right, but what I'm asking is, are the writers just using the Bible stuff as 'epic-style' window-dressing or does the show actually have a theological agenda? In James Cameron's own films, for instance, there's almost always a token character with a name like 'Bishop' or 'Monk'; T2 contains the afore-mentioned Armageddon reference, and The Abyss has a whole Divine Comedy connection going on.

On the whole Cameron/Termination Override thing:
I thought it would have been better not to show Cameron's vision saying that the command had been overrided. Then at least it would keep everyone wondering whether she was actually "fixed" or if she was just hatching an elaborate plan to kill him at a later date. Now it's just that she may have a glitch and go all evil again at some point.

Something ate Busy Philips and is wearing her skin.

That was the worst episode yet imo.

I didn't mind the new girl and the subplot with her but that Nuclear plant action was so stupid. Maybe it's because I've actually toured a plant before, but so many things were just far out.

Gotta say I like that theme they're playing from time to time. The one that played near the end when Sarah's taking a shower!

Absolutely terrible episode. The nuclear plant guy was just "replaced" by a terminator? By who? It would've been so much simpler to have him be the Shirley Manson terminator.

Hmm. The new girl looks like Emily DeRaven from Lost and Kristi Swanson merged into one. So I immediately thought she was a terminator.

That terminator planned to stay for the nuclear meltdown. It appears that Shirley Manson's model has bigger plans than becoming toxic waste.

Not a bad observation, or a bad combination... I did like the actress, so I'll hope there will be a point to her role. And sure it's superficial, but I always give bonus points to a show that can fill its cast with actresses that are both gorgeous and can act. (On that note: yay for more of Penny from LOST!)

I enjoyed the character stuff, but yeah, the main story was pretty forgettable. Still... Sarah perhaps irradiating herself, Cameron observing that they're both ticking time bombs, John forcing the girl he just met to use anti-terminator codes when calling him (and the reveal of his new room!)... The little stuff saved this episode for me.

Terminators have replaced people before, the husband from last season, so it's nothing new if you've been watching the show. The future is playing a lot more active role in trying to affect changes, not just going after John and Sarah. SkyNet has the knowledge to do that. It's like Skynet and the Resistance are playing a game of chess in the past.

The episode was about the future. Both John and Sarah unable to think about the future because they are stuck thinking they know what will happen and every time someone comes from the future to them it reinforces they have done nothing to change their fates.

The Time Displacement place in the future seems to have a revolving door. Why not just start replacing world leaders if it's that common place?

Yeah, this is my biggest gripe with the show. In the movies, the time displacement equipment were destroyed after someone went through. It literally was life or death whether that one person/Terminator accomplished their mission. The fact that numerous terminators (and resistance members) are being sent back in the show, not necessarily on missions having to do with John, just diminishes their (Sarah and John) importance.

Also, I understand the need for the show to push the story into 2007 due to budget constraints, but time traveling forward just goes against everything we know about the time displacement machines. And then there's the issue of Chrome Artie's head being able to go through... Gah!

So, Greenway-888 seemed to be stripped of his skin pretty quick. Is that an effect of what they did to replace him so quick? Or was that electrical shock supposed to strip him of it?

I'm starting to feel like this show is turning into Quantum Leap and the evil leaper is undoing all the "right" Beckett fixed.

I couldn't figure out what was going on. Apparently Cameron never gets more than a scratch, but her opponents are always easily taken out.

Yeah that baffled me too. Would have been easy to apply some burn and metallic makeup instead of a skinless T-800.

Also, I'm interested if the show will ever pick back up on this storyline, but in Derek's flashback last season, we learn that he was captured by Skynet and tortured Clockwork Orange style (e.g., Chopin playing in the background) either by Cameron or a Cameron-model terminator. After being released, he sees Cameron hanging out at the Resistance camp and rightfully freaks out, as he also did at seeing her back in 2007. I'm hoping there's more to their story and that the show will pick up on it. In the same episode, Cameron takes down a malfunctioning Terminator saying sometimes they inexplicably "go bad".

All I want is what's been promised in the teasers for upcoming episodes. John manning up and kicking terminator ass.

This felt very Terminator of the Week to me. And if the Resistance can keep sending guys back, did they send more guys to start stockpiling weapons?

Yeah, I hope they pick that back up because in the ballet episode Derek saw Cameron practicing to the very song he was tortured with. It seemed to be more than a coincidence. I'm thinking with her memory problems they'll investigate her past memories.

Really bad episode. The new girl sucks, and i swear to god when i first saw her at the school i said "She looks like Busey Phillips but uglier... what is Busey Phillips up to know anyways?" 4 seconds later, Whalis Busey Phillips enters the room.

Freaky!

I say there's something up with thew new girl. Nobody on this show just cozies up to someone without there being an ulterior motive.

With the way things are going she's probably an ultra-advanced Terminator.

If she's a terminator, she wasn't "activated" yet. She had 200 thousand opportunities to kill him. Maybe she's a good terminator that will save John from Cameron when she flips again.

She's weird though. And even if john is a stupid teenager, he should know better than to befriend a total stranger and take her home so quickly. Or at least bone her.