Oh Frank Miller... The All-Star Batman and Robin # 10 Mess - Page 2

See also Loeb's Ultimates 3.

I actually think Loeb thinks it's good, though. There's a big difference there. Both are wretched pieces of work, but in entirely different ways.

Oh yeah, it's not intended to be parody, but it too is one of those shitty books that really really sell for some reason.

Miller says the series is building to the reveal of why Batman has a giant mechanical dinosaur.

And John Byrne has humourlessly pointed out why he has it has already been revealed. I hate how Frank Miller continues to be proven right. Fucking detestable, hateful art being validated. What a sad world we live in.

Is this the comic where Alfred tears off his shirt to reveal a "ripped" torso?

If so, it has to be a joke.

He also spends an issue talking about what a beautiful boy Bruce was.

Then he burns down a jungle. He BERRRRRRRNNNS it down!

All star Alfred is twice the man Michael Caine is. He's RIPPED and has been in the shit! Ex-Royal Air Force! Ex-British Secret Service! Cool under pressure! When Vicky Vale is injured, he drops this knowledge on her:

"Stop now, love. Don't go bleeding all over yourself. It's very important that you stop bleeding all over yourself."

Hahahaha that's what WOMEN do!

It's called satire. It's not a prank. Some consider it a form of humor.

Here's an idea, stop buying the book if it makes you angry.

Unfortunately there's also bad satire - which is what this is.

We need an Alfred: Year One movie with Jason Statham.

I think you're on to something.

See second part of post you quoted.

Which would apply if it made me angry.

So you read it apathetically with hints of mild annoyance?

Not so much. Your post was more like Columbus discovering the Americas only to realize that people were already there.

Satire tends to come across as nothing more than spiteful bullshit when it's 1) Not very funny and 2) Coming from an increasingly irrelevent old man. Also, as I pointed out, the frustration tends to come from the fact that at times he's right, especially because people start giving such a crummy work more recognition it deserves. It's like if I took your post and made it say "Grarghforoalo."...is that fucking brilliant satire too? Am I in the same league as Frank Miller because I'm able to distort the reality of what you've said to suit my own needs the way he does?

Well, I've already got a subscription so I can't cancel. Or maybe I just bought a couple of issues to sell on ebay. I can't remember which. Know what the fuck you're talking about before you start shit.

How can he know what he's talking about when your psych meds don't even allow you to know the situation?

How do you not qualify as a troll?

He works here.

And nobody likes you, so they don't mind.

Alright, that kind of made me laugh.

What about the other threads you derail endlessly? Just because you rarely deign to actually talk with people doesn't excuse the way you dick around elsewhere. Insane double-standards applying here. I don't care if you work here or not, getting somebody banned for such offenses as mocking your inability to make Judd Apatow laugh is pretty rich considering the shit you pull.

Also, a lot of people don't know what sarcasm is, apparently. If you want to know the extent of my purchasing this shitty book, it was mentioned earlier, but by all means, continue to twist things to your own ends.

Is it alright to appreciate the book on art alone (I personally like the writing and the art)? Or is liking Jim Lee's art uncool these days?

I don't know about the taste police on these boards, but I'd say you like what you like so who gives a fuck? I have always thought Jim Lee is a bad match for Batman, though. Doesn't really capture any sort of mood or emotional storytelling.

You know, one of the reasons I was drawn to the site was that I liked, specifically, your, Devin Faraci's, reviews. I found (and find) them well written, thought out, critical.

And then I see this destructive, unintelligent, trolling going on in the forums. Is it just that you are so busy writing your articles that you have no time to devote to the forums other than as a punching bag to blow off steam?

I hope you got that bronchitis taken care of, and are not still feeling sick.

As for Miller, I have not read "All Star Batman & Robin" but from my familiarity with Miller's other work, any "Joke" is likely to be from a homophobic point of view. Is this something to celebrate? I'm sure it is "divisive". The homophobic jackasses who like it when the Batman comic is Steroided-up to grim machoness, and has anything that could possibly be interpreted as "gay" stripped out of it, will find it "funny" if Miller mocks the comics that came before his Ultra-Right-Wing version of Batman. Is that what he's mocking? "Batman before me was gay"? Sure sounds divisive, but in a Troglodyte way. Divisive does not equal intelligent, and Macho mocking of the "weak" or "gay" has always sold.

OR, as in "300", Miller is just going so overboard in professing Machoness that it is unintentionally looking gay in it's obsession. This could produce "division" in the people who find it absurd, and the people who love it because they are Troglodytes who love OverMuscled Machoness. We may laugh at Alfred pulling off his shirt to show how ripped he is, but this doesn't mean Miller was. This also would be "divisiveness", but not by intelligent design, but simple rejection of Miller's un-ironic obsession with physical male prowess.

Yeah, I read the first issue of this. I got that it was satire... I mean its the same joke Miller's been telling for over twenty years. I know people didn't get the joke when he told it in Dark Knight Returns... so he told it again with Dark Knight Strikes Again and went even bigger with it... and now he's telling it again and I guess people still don't get it. I got it the first time and thought it was pretty funny. I guess if you hate fanboys the fact that they don't get it is pretty funny. Fanboys just make me sad. Calling attention to their ignorance just compounds that sadness.

A brilliant medium is doomed to obscurity by the buying habits of emotional retarded thirty year olds with the minds of thirteen year olds. Why is that funny?

I've never read an interview where Frank Miller claimed anything about the Dark Knight Returns outside of the moronic reaction to it was a joke. In one of his introductions he explains his motivation in writing it flat-out, and he speaks with a greater tone of reverance for the character than virtually any fanboy I've ever seen. The book is awash with it.

The Dark Knight Returns isn't Miller telling a joke, it's him unwittingly setting it up and then waiting twenty years to deliver the punchline. Both The Dark Knight Strikes Again and All-Star Batman & Robin are undeniable examples of Miller taking the piss, but I'll say again, in trying to negotiate the content of this book with his work outside of it, the line between satire and pure indulgence is blurred.

That's not really a criticism of the book, I do think that a lot of fanboys' unwavering call to handle this kind of material as earnestly as possible is rather embarrassing (though I'm very glad that I don't feel the need to obsess over what geeks do or don't do with their dicks), but Miller's insistence on playing the rake and railing against his own legacy will never be as interesting as seeing him say something new, something now. Which he has heretofore, failed to do.

100% right. It's like Miller himself is in a rut, so he decides to tear down what he was formerly capable of 'cause he has nothing new and exciting to say.

In my eyes Miller cemented himself as a great writer on Daredevil, and I don't think anyone can take those praises away from him. His Daredevil runs were great, and still hold up to this day. With the exception of Batman: Year One has been working to destroy that credibility and raw talent he once displayed.

I went back and started reading the first issue out loud in a raspy scream and it is actually funny. I retract my previous statement.

God, I can't wait for Frank Miller's "Holy Terror, Batman", the comic where Batman goes to Afghanistan to fight Al Quaida.

That's how I read Devin's posts, only there's more snivelling with those.

I think Frank realized what a dumb idea that was, and has come up with a new basis for the story. Basically, no more Batman, which is a shame.

So true, I went back into a comic book store for the first time in YEARS and was shocked with what I saw...pretty sad really..

It would probably have been a terrible comic, but i wanted to read it.

What was shocking? The people or what was on the racks? ... I think in terms of clientele, pretty regular people from all walks of life frequent the one I go to.

Funny thing, the new mayor of Detroit is a regular at my shop.

I realize things here in the S.F. Bay Area are a bit on the unique side, but I have about a half-dozen different shops close enough for me to frequent (and about as many again I visit now and then). Obviously, their top-selling stuff superhero stuff tends to be featured prominently (just as Borders or Barnes & Noble pile books by Dan Brown or Stephanie Meyer to the ceiling), but they all have extensive indie sections, and for the most part, the staff's at least as knowledgeable about those as they are about stuff from the Big 2.

Yeah, sounds about right. I was interested in what was so shocking from a few years ago. I think if anything, more and more places are becoming mainstream and carry alot more variety. I think it was probably just a case of going into the wrong comic shop.

Forget looking at the selection of your local shop. Check out the actual sales numbers if you want to be depressed about the impending fate of comic books.

I'm not sure I can think of a medium where the quality stuff isn't a minority taste.


Lots more people read All Star Batman or Ultimates 3 than Scalped or The Nightly News... and lots more people watch American Idol or Oprah than watched The Wire or Arrested Development.

Be nice if it weren't that way, but I can't see comics as being any worse an offender in that regard than movies, music, books, etc.

Some of the lines in this thing are golden. Green Lantern screaming, "Damn you and your lemonade!" at Batman just kills me.

eh..well just picture a comic book shop in the mid-west... ha ha ha (It was the people.) There is a comic book store in downtown Indianapolis that I go to now, great people and a huge selection. its the smaller "town-ie" stores with the back-rooms that kind of freak me out....

I wasn't going to bother with this one but after reading this thread and particularly this post, I'm leaving for the comic store now.

Miller recently said he's revised that idea, and that the story, whatever it ends up as, won't have Batman in it.