Action Draft: Forgotten Heroes - Page 4

Welcome aboard! If there's one thing I got out of the draft, it was respect for your knowledge & enthusiasm. (Taste on the other hand....)

You know your stuff. And those Action Rules were an interesting addition.

(Love to see your list of favorite picks)

Anybody have a favorite villain (or two)? Now that Darth Vader's been neutered, there's no clear cut champion.

My drafted faves:
1. Mitch Leary--Malkovich had a strained relationship with his father. His Dad's favorite Actor was Clint; so in a bit of inspired method acting, he transferred all his anger and hate onto Eastwood in the movie. The oozing darkness (he almost out Hopkins-Hopkins) & sadistic taunting really get under your skin. (All hail the new king!)
2. Gruber-For all his charm; play at sophistication, a cold-blooded killer. Quick on his feet. His downfall: incompetent help

3. Darth Vader--The galactic Stalin to the Emperor's Hitler; not afraid to choke a bitch; biggest crime-lousy husband / deadbeat Dad

4. The Terminator--"It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with! It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, untill you are dead!""

5. Deputy Sgt. Arthur Galt--an amalgem of almost every big-fish-liitle-pond, ego trippin' rednecks ever; the sadistic way he abuses Rambo in jail &the gleefulness in which he shoots at him from the helicopter is chilling; What a dick!

Favorite Villains:

5. Harry Lime 'the Third Man': Orson Welles' best role (yes, including Kane).
6. The Kurgan 'Highlander': Whatever your feelings towards the movie, nobody can deny the pure awesomeness of Clancy Brown.

Gruber: No explanation needed.

Clarence Boddiker: The fact that he has no redeeming qualities is his most redeeming quality.

Norman Stansfield: Oldman took what could have been a standard corrupt cop character and made it completely original.

T-1000: The perfect combination of actor and special effects.

Sgt. Andrew Scott: So much fun to watch. Lundgren at his most unhinged.

I always liked Powers Boothe in SUDDEN DEATH.

WINNERS. Oldman, in particular, is particularly scary. Fuck, just watch him take a PILL and you know that the shit is about to hit the fan.

Johnny Ringo 'Tombstone': Michael Biehn played him perfectly. Val needed a good foil and Biehn provided it with Ringo.

Moxica '1492: Conquest of Paradise': Michael Wincott absolutely stole this movie. Intense, arrogant, and malicious.

I'll go with Stans, Leary and Boddicker too. Malkovich was believably scary in In the Line of Fire, while the other two were slightly more cartoony (if no less effective). I always get chills the way Malkovich delivers this line:

"Do you know how easily I could kill you, Frank? Do you know how many times I watched you go in and out of that apartment? You are still alive because I have allowed you to live... so you show me... some GODDAMN RESPECT!"

(Slams down phone, then serene as a "Hindu cow")

Its a wonderful role (more thoughtful than just a crazed killer) and a wonderful performance, switching from reason to rage. You get the impression he really believes in his reasoning.

"Why'd you shoot that duck, asshole?"

Drafted Villains

More Favorites:

6. Cash Bailey--Talked about him a lot already. Cool. Funny. Badass. Only a Nolte could take him down!

7. Stuntman Mike--A total psychopath; what a performance by Russell (the way he goes from old school tough guy to simpering pussy was great, & kinda courageous for Kurt)

8. Murphy--3000 Miles sucks hard, but Costner's evil Elvis is a a great sleaze and throwback to the classic bad guys; deserved a better movie

9. Wulfgar--Vintage Rutger Hauer; His suave, psychopathic terrorist mastermind's right behind Roy Batty & John Ryder--not his best, but so underrated

10. Brad Wesley--Ben Gazzara riffing on his Saint Jack persona brings some class into this Swayze 'B'. A real bastard.

I posted this earlier in the "Discussion" thread. But it looks like we're all here so...

I don't have a favorite draft. But I do have favorite picks.

And they are (excluding my own) in chronological order (take your laptop into the toilet):

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly - A fantastic action epic full of terrific humor.

The Taking of Pelham One Two Three - Really curious about the Tony Scott remake, but this is hard to beat. That last confrontation between Matthau and Shaw is awesome and the final shot of the movie is classic.

Year of the Dragon - Criminally underrated Cimino (as is most of his work) with a terrific Rourke and very close to my heart since I grew up in Chinatown.

Death Wish 3 - As entertaining as cheese gets. Legitimately solid supporting work from Ed Lauter and just tons of fun to watch. The definitive Cannon picture for me. More so than Rambo if you can believe that.

Die Hard - A master class in genre screenwriting. Pretty much a perfect movie from a storytelling perspective.

They Live - Best fight scene of all time. A defining movie of my adolescence.

Lethal Weapon 2 is my favorite action movie of all time. The pacing, the plot, the humor... The soundtrack... The way it's put together. (No credits until the end... Titles and throw you right in) This is how it should be done.

Johnny Handsome - Underrated thriller from Walter Hill with another great Rourke performance. Slick, tense and moving. Love this movie.

Bullet in the Head - Woo's masterpiece. Bar none. It's complex and full of great layers. Really emotional. It gets under your skin like few movies in the genre.

The Rookie - An underrated Eastwood. Where he shows he can do Joel Silver action as good or better than the rest of them. And a great final dispatch line - possibly the best ever.

Miller's Crossing - My favorite of the Coens. People don't pick this when discussing great gangster movies. They should.

Out for Justice - It's fascinating to watch Seagal's attempt at a Scorsese picture. John Flynn's gritty treatment helps.

In the Line of Fire - Petersen's best. A satisfying thriller with a great Malkovich. One of the best villains of all time.

Heat - How did this movie not get any Oscar nominations? It's never made any sense to me. A dynamite action picture with real weight and depth of character. A masterwork. Don't think Mann will ever top this.

The Incredibles - Really glad someone picked this. Better than a lot of live action examples of the genre.

Running Scared - It feels like the best graphic novel that was never published. Fantastic pulp. Revelatory performance from Paul Walker. But it bombed, so he's back to the pin-up crap.

(Honorable mention to all those wonderful pre-60's choices. Interesting and daring picks all)

Basically, these are the ones I would have picked myself. Many of them were actually on my list in fact. But I stumbled onto a 90's centric theme and that's where it sort of stayed for me.

(By the way: My theme was "Underrated 90s Actioners That Deserve More Love" not "The John Lithgow Villain Trilogy" or "Ice-T: From Anti Hero to Hero to Villain")

11. Sheriff of Nottingham--Basil Rathbone was like the original Gruber

12. Raven Shaddock--Slimey Dafoe; Pure comicbook; Who'd believe he'd go on to play Jesus?

13. Scorpio Killer--can't get much crazier than this!

14. Castor Troy--This Cage-Travolta creation is a blast!

15. TIE: Auric Goldfinger/ Kim Jong --Gotta love to hate the evil masterminds


EDIT-Great points, Erix!

Best Villains?

Hans Gruber is the only correct number one choice.

Geoffrey Rush in Pirates of the Caribbean 1 was terrific. He worked as much as Depp for me. Bringing him back was a great idea, and that's why everyone left the 2nd one feeling jazzed. But they fucked it up by making him pretty much a good guy. After making the absolute most of each act of treachery, big or small, they put him in a movie that is wall-to-wall backstabs and double crosses and he is somehow the only character to stay true to his word the entire length of the film. God damn, that third one really fucking killed it...

David Thewlis is always a great villain, even in shitty movies, and even in movies where he's playing a hero. Speaking of which, Ralph Fiennes is doing some pretty creative work in the Harry Potter movies, considering Voldemort is not a particularly original or engaging character.

Ed Harris and William Hurt in History of Violence are pretty fun.

Powers Boothe is always good at villainy. All that's been mentioned already, plus Cy Tolliver in Deadwood, and speaking of Deadwood, Francis Wolcott and George Hearst are fucking rad.

I could go on, I realized, so I'll end it here.

Oh, and Gary Oldman. I remember in the 90s, he got a bit of shit for always playing villains, but in retrospect, he really did quite a bit to make them all somewhat different. But Dracula is different from Stansfield is different from Mason Verger. He even took the stock villain of Air Force One and made him as understandable and sane as he could, in defiance of the script. Ditto that Joan Allen political movie I forget the title of. I even liked him in Fifth Element, I guess.

Lost in Space did defeat him, but who wouldn't have been crushed by that?

How can we be talking about villains/bad guys and not bring up the KING, Billy Drago? Has he ever NOT been the bad guy in a movie? His Frank Nitti in 'the Untouchables' is probably his best work, but he's in countless B action films...I'll leave that to Mort to list them all.

We're doing villains? Ok, I'll play. These are my favorite drafted villains. (This list does include some of mine. Again, chronological.

Scorpio - Andrew Robinson is positively chilling. How did he not become a bigger star?

The Duke of New York - There's something so iconic about Isaac Hayes chasing down Kurt Russell in his pimp mobile... He doesn't take any shit. He's going to pop those fuckers himself.

Toht - A definite creep. One of the most satisfying moments of screen history is watching his face melt away. (Belloq's actually kind of likable. Not this asshole.)

Bennett - I don't know what they were intending with this. But it's just so fucking flamboyant there's no way to get it out of your head.

Clarence Boddicker - Kurtwood Smith created one of the most delicious portraits of pure, merciless evil the screen has ever given us. Few villains make you cheer their gory demise the way he does.

Hans Gruber - Of course. I must have missed 60 Minutes. What are you saying?

Arjen Rudd - The only villain who ever actually made me say the words "Fuck You" out loud after delivering his immortal final line. Only to be seconded a moment later by Danny Glover himself.

Bernie Bernbaum - Still John Turturro's masterpiece for me. This guy is such a bastard. You weep for him in the woods and then in the end he stabs you in the back... You want to kill the motherfucker. That last moment with Gabriel Byrne is aces.

Nino Brown - A galvanizing son of a bitch of the highest order. Much like Boddicker, you really cheer when Bill Cobbs sends his soul where it's required.

Milo - Taylor Negron's gayness makes this bad guy really unforgettable. That precise delivery of his. His soft-spoken demeanor and time bomb explosions... It's a great performance. Truly.

Mitch Leary - That scene on the roof where he puts Eastwood's gun in his mouth. He's in control and everyone knows it... Just awesome.

Fallon - Denis Leary doesn't get enough credit for this. The guy is really fucking scary. That scene where you know Piven is doomed is a powerhouse.

Stansfield - EeeeevvvrrrrryyyyONE!!!!

Captain Dudley Smith - A great, classic bad guy in the noir tradition. A guy who's just a real prick from top to bottom. He deserves to be plugged in the back like that.

Agent Smith - Leave it to Hugo Weaving to make saying a person's name one of the most quotable things in history.

Kim Jong Il - Oh yeah? I've got Arric Barrwin.

Colin Sullivan - What a fucking douchebag!

Anton Chigurh - Call it.

The Joker - You know? You remind me of my father......

EDIT: Thanx for reminding me Judas. Can't believe that slipped my mind.

No love for Belloq or Toht?

Regarding Bennett in 'Commando'...it takes a massive leap of imagination to believe that a pumped up Aussie Freddie Mercury would last 5 seconds against Arnold's Matrix (even if he did have an injured arm). That whole final battle is absolutely glorious in its absurdity, capping an already outrageous movie. It's great fun.

Favorite Drago villain has to be as Ramon Cota in DELTA FORCE 2. He really saves the film and makes it watchable. 100% pure sleaze bag.

His approach to acting is a valuable tool for anyone looking to get in the biz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-vwJper1hY

Fixed.

Some of my fave drafted movie baddies:

-there's the straight up classics e.g. Boddicker, Scorpio, Gruber

-Henriksen and Vosloo: awesome double act, Fouchon is all seething fury at the little ant fucking up his plans, and Van Cleef is just evil incarnate (witness the chuckle just before he kills Poe)

-Bolo, Han (from right out of a comic book), and O'Hara (the formidable Bob Wall)

-James Best aka the Sheriff from Dukes of Hazzard in Rolling Thunder- no flash to the character, just needs to get what's coming to him AfuckingSAP

-Lord Humungous ("just walk iwway")- charmingly goofy

-and SCREWFACE! Stop de bladclaat cryin!!!

also Galt from First Blood, played by master director Jack Starret.

"you lookin for trouble... you came to da right place."

Drago's alright in my opinion. Unlike some of his baddie peers, I don't think he knows quite how to use his evil face for maximum menace. Yeah, he's got The Untouchables, but he's also got The Hills Have Eyes remake, where he's basically an angry homeless.

"Man said clean him up, clean him up" (kick)

"Can't you see he's crazy?"

"I don't give a shit."

One I thought of, then forgot: Near Dark. Can't think of a better mixture of Action & Horror thats come around since. (Blade 2 perhaps the closest)

Why is that so hard to do right?

I LOVE 'Near Dark'. I remember watching this shortly after viewing 'Aliens' for the umpteenth time and being blown away by the mini-reunion of my favorite cast members.

Fun script, perfect PERFECT casting, and solid direction. When it all comes together, the results can be glorious.

Maybe I'm alone in this. (Though I think Keith had the same idea)

But I think Romero's Dawn of the Dead is a great example of an action/horror film. It was on my list of possible draftees. The opening siege on the tenement is an action powerhouse...

And the whole thing with the bikers in the mall. That's straight up action in my eyes.

Son of a bitch.

Can't believe I forgot FLASHPOINT.. and it wasn't even that long ago that I watched the damn thing.

I'm sorry, Donny!

Yeah, I nearly wwent with Flashpoint in the bonus round. Its the best martial arts/action film i've seen in a while, that's for sure.

I never got around to FLASHPOINT. How does it compare to KILLZONE (SPL)?

I don't think anyone did. I thought about it and decided against it. I'm not quite sure why.

I'm probably in the minority here... But I quite enjoy Assassins. Yes, it's kind of silly, but I thought Banderas made a good over-the-top villain. Overall, it's a slick and entertaining film from Donner and the Wachowskis. It was on my list of possibilities for the Bonus Round. Hollow Point won out in the end though.

Yeah... Even with James Woods, The Specialist is pretty weak. I will say this though: I saw it sitting at the front row with a friend of mine, we had done a few hits, and we pretty much laughed all the way through it, annoying the piss out of everyone.

Still a fond memory for me. As a comedy, it's aces.

As action, it sucks.

Hated to see Hal Needham shut out.

Watched KISS KISS BANG BANG the other night. Gotta say, despite Prive Eye/ Mystery conventions, it's totally Action (especially second half).

Also the case was made for ENEMY OF THE STATE & MARATHON MAN.

I'm rather surprised that the original 'Mad Max' wasn't drafted as well. While the sequel is obviously the superior entry, the first one was a solid low budget actioner.

Following that line of thought Judas... I would have preferred El Mariachi be drafted instead of Desperado. There's more charm to that picture (even with the horrendous acting - part of what makes it cool, actually). I don't hesitate to say I think it's Rodriguez's best film.

There's something to be said for giving it your all.

Go back and forth between the first two MAD MAXs as to which is my favorite, Right now I'm feeling ROAD WARRIOR. The third unfortunately gets a bad rap; pretty great in its own right. Maybe the best depiction of a post-Apocalyptic civilization. The dramatic second half shift seems to throw a lot of people off.

'Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome' feels like 2 movies merged into one. It isn't so much the tonal shift that's jarring, it's the complete change to the overall pace of the movie that is just OFF.

That being said, I still think that it's a very good movie with some excellent sequences in it. The whole thunderdome fight is exceptionally well staged, for instance.

I even like Tina Turner...shoot me.

I absolutely love the first half of Thunderdome, but the second half was so boring and forgettable that I don't really look at the movie that fondly. But it's been like ten years since I've seen it, so maybe I should revisit it.

I think the main problem is the obvious one.

Miller followed a tough, gritty and revolutionary action film with a pretty standard PG13 80's adventure picture.

There are great bits in Thunderdome... As a self-contained adventure story it sort of works. But as the follow-up to one of the great action films of all time, it's kind of dismal.

I know that Miller was going to make a 4th Mad Max film at one point (like 6 years ago ) called 'Fury Road'. Did anyone ever get a copy of the script for this? I'd be curious to see where Miller intended to take Max...beyond Thunderdome.

I'd heard recently that he was working on something now... But without Mel.

Absurd, retarded fucking idea that is.

Reppity Rep Rep, that made me laugh hard. God, that was a cheesy music video...

Wasn't Heath Ledger as "Son of Max" alleged at some point?

I thought I heard that Heath was going to be playing an older version of the feral kid (from 'Mad Max 2'/'The Road Warrior'), but I could be mistaken.

Mel was going to do 'Fury Road' as a favor to George Miller, from what I understand. Have they had some kind of falling out, or is Mel just not interested in the project anymore?

Wondered about that myself. From what I understand, Miller had set it up and was ready to go. Think Mel bailed on him at the last minute. Not sure if Mel's "troubles" caused him to pull out, or if he just questioned returning to old characters. (wasn't THUNDERDOME made during the peak of his alcholism, maybe he feared getting back into that frame of mind)

From what I understand, it was all set up and ready to go, but they were going to film it in a place that was at severe risk of terroristic activities. This was right after 9/11, so everyone was scared to take any kind of risks. Production got postponed and then just fell apart into oblivion.

Before this draft started, would've bet money GROSS POINT BLANK gets picked. Color me surprised.

Well, shit. I woulda happily had that in mine.