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The economy - oops - Page 47

post #2301 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post





So how fucked are we?  In 10 words or less.


Greece is going to default.  Youve heard me (and many others across teh interwebs) say that for almost 2 years now. 

 

All the EU has been doing is just making sure that when the default eventually occurs, Greece and the entire region will be in much worse shape than if they had just let them default back in late '09.  Their economy is expected to shrink more than 5% this year alone, which is huge.  That's primarily due to the increased taxes and austerity measures.  With the way things are looking, once Greece goes expect Portugal to go soon after followed by Ireland.  Even if that doesnt happen, it's essentially September of '08 all over again. 

 

In short:

 

snap018.bmp

 

Fucked to quite fucked.

 

If whatever package theyre working on this week goes through, well just be back here 6 months from now.  Like we were 6 months ago...and 6 months before that.  Just rip the band-aid already.

 

post #2302 of 2754

And thus spoke the Lord.  I'm afraid you're right.  I've had to stop reading the Economist for fear of developing an ulcer.

 

The Germans are really screwing the pooch.  To think that our own mishandling of the recession appears half-way competent to the way the Europeans have been dealing with this mess is shocking.  Another repeat of September 2008 is going to be bad; very bad.

post #2303 of 2754

This is going to sound cruel but I'm starting to wonder if we should have just let the whole thing fall down to begin with.

 

What this nation needs now is a great cleansing of it's political and economic systems and a reality check towards what is truly of value and worth to a society. Out of all the suffering and hardship that was involved with the Great Depression Americans as a whole did learn something about themselves and what it means to live together.  We've seen fits and bursts of that from the founding of this country, before the founding even. Every time we, the American people, become complacent and think "this is the good life" we quickly learn a harsh lesson: You stop changing you die.  That's the lesson taken from the Great Depression by me.  It sucks but sometimes bad shit creates good people.

 

Then we went to war, FDR died and it all got fucked. We became more and more concerned with status, materialism and the boogeymen who paid lipservice to a guy named Marx. Conservatism started to wield a bigger stick in the name of "tradition" and our baser natures as human beings became magnified in places like Selma, Alabama and Saigon. Then, for a moment, we started to wise up again...then, just as quickly, we got Nixon and then Reagan. People got really, really rich and people got really really poor. Then came the 90's and something about cum stained dresses, the dying embers of war via proxy in 9/11, more war, people got fucking REALLY rich and then a lot more people started getting really, really poor...some of whom use to be rich.

 

Now here we are with a fucked economy, a fucked political system and the makings of a fucked society yet again. Everybody with a suit and some Lobbyist money in their pocket has a solution: More taxes, less taxes. More spending, less spending. Less Government, more government! Family Values! Liberty! Hope! Change! I say what we really need is rejection: rejection of a course of action that is lining the pockets of few and starving the many. A repudiation of a system that rewards those best at stomping the neck of his fellow man than offering his hand and uplifting him. To cast aside an outlook concerned with the nostalgia of the past, a myopic viewpoint of life and a stagnant theory of how society should be structured, governed and related to. 

 

It's time to take stock of ourselves, our families, our neighborhoods, our communities and say: This isn't working anymore. We have to do better, we need to BE better.  There's no fixing this with money or elections or anything else that is so fleeting and transitory. The only thing that's going to fix this is for us to fall down and realize that the reason we did is because we were looking over our shoulders at what was behind us instead of the path in front of us.

 

The .02 cents of a sorry bastard who can't sleep much these days.  Don't know if it was appropriate for this thread and I'm sorry if it wasn't but I needed to get that out.

post #2304 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancroft Agee View Post

The .02 cents of a sorry bastard who can't sleep much these days.  Don't know if it was appropriate for this thread and I'm sorry if it wasn't but I needed to get that out.


Well this is just the opinion of one guy on the other side of the world, but from me you get a thumbs up, this and this.

 

...and for what its worth you could apply much of that same speech to my own country, this is something endemic of the west now, not just the US. We are a species losing its way.

post #2305 of 2754

Agreed and well said. This is the golden age. When Rome fell 400 years of the Dark Ages happened.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/09/16/2011-09-16_mayor_bloomberg_predicts_riots_in_the_streets_if_economy_doesnt_create_more_jobs.html

 

Mayor Bloomberg warned Friday there would be riots in the streets if Washington doesn’t get serious about generating jobs.

 

“We have a lot of kids graduating college, can’t find jobs,” Bloomberg said on his weekly WOR radio show.

 

“That’s what happened in Cairo. That’s what happened in Madrid. You don’t want those kinds of riots here.”


Edited by Johnny Daywalker - 9/16/11 at 8:10pm
post #2306 of 2754

Frankly I'm surprised we haven't seen civil unrest in this country. (the US). The Tea Partiers come close, but most of them (at least where I live) are retired or close to it, so they won't be doing much rabble rousing, not after 4 PM (when Jeopardy comes on) at least. 

post #2307 of 2754

Perhaps I spoke too soon (or did I?)

 

Protesters blocked in bid to 'occupy' Wall Street

http://news.yahoo.com/protesters-blocked-bid-occupy-wall-street-220039609.html

post #2308 of 2754

 

wow, in these times....that's some arrogance.... 

 

Multi-Millionaire Rep. Says He Can’t Afford A Tax Hike Because He Only Has $400K A Year After Feeding Family

 

 

<excerpt>

Quote:

Fleming is himself a businesses owner, so Jansing asked, “If you have to pay more in taxes, you would get rid of some of those employees?” Fleming responded by saying that while his businesses made $6.3 million last year, after you “pay 500 employees, you pay rent, you pay equipment, and food,” his profits “a mere fraction of that” — “by the time I feed my family, I have maybe $400,000 left over.”

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/19/322405/gop-rep-whines-400k/

 

also....his "math" doesn't seem to add up....but he's a member of the GOP, so I'm not surprised.

post #2309 of 2754

http://blogmaverick.com/2011/09/19/the-most-patriotic-thing-you-can-do-2/

 

Bust your ass and get rich.

Make a boatload of money. Pay your taxes. Lots of taxes. Hire people. Train people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services. Pay more taxes.

When you make a shitload of money. Do something positive with it. If you are smart enough to make it, you will be smart enough to know where to put it to work.

 

- Mark Cuban

post #2310 of 2754

Do calls to public duty and the greater angels of our nature still work these days?

 

Fuck knows my country's become incredibly myopic and selfish the last decade or so.

post #2311 of 2754
post #2312 of 2754

Elizabeth Warren in 2016.

post #2313 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post

Elizabeth Warren in 2016.



Now that... that I can get behind. 

post #2314 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post

Elizabeth Warren in 2016.



We should be so lucky.

post #2315 of 2754
Thread Starter 
Upbeat assessment on the Euro crisis from the FT's lead economics writer:

"Rescuing the eurozone requires an action plan of a scale hard to fathom. In the coming weeks, Europe’s political leaders will have to decide what to do about Greece, recapitalise the banking sector, fix the EFSF, all in a way that ties in with a clearly laid-out strategy for the future of the eurozone. A short-term fix may impress the markets for a few days. It is not going to end the crisis.
Based on previous performance, it is hard to imagine that the European Council will rise to the occasion. If it does, it is even harder to believe that they can get the support back home.

I have never seen Europe’s policymakers as scared as I saw them in Washington last week."


http://m.ft.com/cms/61de3a26-e515-11e0-9aa8-00144feabdc0.html
post #2316 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

Do calls to public duty and the greater angels of our nature still work these days?


No.  Freak.

 

Public Duty was co-opted by political extremists in 2002.  Greater Angels are available for a reasonable fee in any large metro area.

 

post #2317 of 2754

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/prophets-of-doom-12-shocking-quotes-from-insiders-that-are-warning-about-the-horrific-economic-crisis-that-is-almost-here

 

 

The following are 12 shocking quotes from insiders that are warning about the horrific economic crisis that is almost here….

 

#1 George Soros: “Financial markets are driving the world towards another Great Depression with incalculable political consequences. The authorities, particularly in Europe, have lost control of the situation.”

 

#2 PIMCO CEO Mohammed El-Erian: “These are all signs of an institutional run on French banks. If it persists, the banks would have no choice but to delever their balance sheets in a very drastic and disorderly fashion. Retail depositors would get edgy and be tempted to follow trading and institutional clients through the exit doors. Europe would thus be thrown into a full-blown banking crisis that aggravates the sovereign debt trap, renders certain another economic recession, and significantly worsens the outlook for the global economy.”

 

#3 Attila Szalay-Berzeviczy, global head of securities services at UniCredit SpA (Italy’s largest bank): “The only remaining question is how many days the hopeless rearguard action of European governments and the European Central Bank can keep up Greece’s spirits.”

 

#4 Stefan Homburg, the head of Germany’s Institute for Public Finance: “The euro is nearing its ugly end. A collapse of monetary union now appears unavoidable.”

 

#5 EU Parliament Member Nigel Farage: “I think the worst in the financial system is yet to come, a possible cataclysm and if that happens the gold price could go (higher) to a number that we simply cannot, at this moment, even imagine.”

 

#6 Carl Weinberg, the chief economist at High Frequency Economics: “At this point, our base case is that Greece will default within weeks.”

 

#7 Goldman Sachs strategist Alan Brazil: “Solving a debt problem with more debt has not solved the underlying problem. In the US, Treasury debt growth financed the US consumer but has not had enough of an impact on job growth. Can the US continue to depreciate the world’s base currency?”

 

#8 International Labour Organization director general Juan Somavia recently stated that total unemployment could “increase by some 20m to a total of 40m in G20 countries” by the end of 2012.

#9 Deutsche Bank CEO Josef Ackerman: “It is an open secret that numerous European banks would not survive having to revalue sovereign debt held on the banking book at market levels.”

 

#10 Alastair Newton, a strategist for Nomura Securities in London: “We believe that we are just about to enter a critical period for the eurozone and that the threat of some sort of break-up between now and year-end is greater than it has been at any time since the start of the crisis”

 

#11 Ann Barnhardt, head of Barnhardt Capital Management, Inc.: “It’s over. There is no coming back from this. The only thing that can happen is a total and complete collapse of EVERYTHING we now know, and humanity starts from scratch. And if you think that this collapse is going to play out without one hell of a big hot war, you are sadly, sadly mistaken.”

 

#12 Lakshman Achuthan of ECRI: “When I call a recession…that means that process is starting to feed on itself, which means that you can yell and scream and you can write a big check, but it’s not going to stop.”

post #2318 of 2754

299643_288363457841306_114517875225866_1167258_1962866926_n.jpg

post #2319 of 2754

Corporations can eat a dick.

post #2320 of 2754

A whole bag of 'em.

post #2321 of 2754

And an Asian gentleman can watch.

 

I wouldn't count on our current batch of opportunists, retards, bean-counters, cowards and criminals rising to the occasion for any reason other than by accident. The generations of politicians that pulled Europe out of the ruble and turned it into the most educated, progressive and socially fair part of Earth should fucking rise from their graves and start taking heads.

post #2322 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
The generations of politicians that pulled Europe out of the ruble and turned it into the most educated, progressive and socially fair part of Earth should fucking rise from their graves and start taking heads.


I suggest you start working on that screenplay immediately before someone steals your idea.

post #2323 of 2754

*inbeforeElectricBoogaloo*

 

 

Its crazy watching all of this, while our economy is doing alright. Hopefully we can keep ourselves afloat and not get pulled under when the US finally goes....

 

 

post #2324 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post




I suggest you start working on that screenplay immediately before someone steals your idea.


I can see that in my mind. Schuman, Adenauer and De Gasperi armed with machetes and flamethrowers barging in a conference of the European heads of state. 

 

"You incompetent fucks, you're ruining everything!"

 

And then they proceed to wholesale slaughter of Inglourious Basterds levels. While Ode To Joy plays in the background.

post #2325 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

I can see that in my mind. Schuman, Adenauer and De Gasperi armed with machetes and flamethrowers barging in a conference of the European heads of state. 

 

"You incompetent fucks, you're ruining everything!"

 

And then they proceed to wholesale slaughter of Inglourious Basterds levels. While Ode To Joy plays in the background.


skorpio.gif

 

post #2326 of 2754

Drudge has this buried on his page...NBC has it listed under the heading of News> Weird:

 

Detroit holds jobs fair -- for ex-cons only!

 

 

 

I don't see a problem with this.  Does anyone else?  I can imagine for a non-violent offender it can be a bitch to get a job.  My only caveat would be that none of the "200 potential job openings" would be government positions.  Those shouldn't be restricted.  If they want to gather private employers and allow them the opportunity to restrict this occasionally then more power to that community.

post #2327 of 2754

Shoulda listened to Dingell.

post #2328 of 2754

Eric Schneiderman, Beau Biden and Kamala Harris, AGs of New York, Delaware and California, respectively, are executing the investigation into the meltdown that has needed to be done for years.  Watching this interview with Schneiderman gave me an incredible dose of hope that those responsible (not everyone on Wall St. is a crook but they get griftier near the top) will face justice.

 

Must watch:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wkEPY8zudM

 

post #2329 of 2754

Ten Reasons Not to Bank On (or With) Bank of America

Charging customers for a debit card is just one reason not to bank at BoA. Recent Occupy Santa Cruz Bank of America incident illustrates how sensitive B of A is to protest.  This "too big to fail" bank may collapse like a house made of junk bonds and become a taxpayer burden. Here are a few other reasons why you shouldn't bank with them.

 

http://www.truth-out.org/ten-reasons-not-bank-or-bank-america/1319648479

post #2330 of 2754
post #2331 of 2754
Quote:


Wil Wheaton - yeah, that Wil Wheaton - posted this link on G+. I agree with his one word summation of those involved:

 

Shitbags.

post #2332 of 2754

Seconded. We've let criminals with no souls run that which they never should have.

 

Glad Jimmy Stewart and Frank Capra are dead and don't have to see this shit.

post #2333 of 2754
post #2334 of 2754

I don't understand how the EU cycle of "We have a plan!  Oh wait, nope..."  keeps perpetuating?  It's going in tighter and tighter circles.

 

Also, this sounds bad: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45114515/ns/today-today_news/t/corzine-run-firm-admits-using-clients-money/

post #2335 of 2754

It is bad. So bad that even a trade publication that services Wall Street, and a research firm that covers Financial firms, are now supporting OWS

 

http://www.wallstreetandtech.com/articles/231902047?cid=nl_wallstreettech_daily

post #2336 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post

I don't understand how the EU cycle of "We have a plan!  Oh wait, nope..."  keeps perpetuating?  It's going in tighter and tighter circles.

 

Also, this sounds bad: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45114515/ns/today-today_news/t/corzine-run-firm-admits-using-clients-money/



This is 2008 again, times 100. Once again, agencies that the market trusts to ensure an honest, level playing field are shown to be clueless. Or in on it.

post #2337 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother View Post

Further proof the American people have no clue.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/poll-economy-fix-americans-pick-reagan-over-roosevelt-164905667.html


Nah, all that proves is that the right thinks in lockstep more than the left. The second, third and fourth place presidents were all Democrats, it's just a matter of not being able to decide on which one. I mean, Jefferson, who wouldn't want him back running the country?

 

Actually that poll's a bit of a microcosm of where political thought is among the masses--the right is a minority, but they're focused and have had certain ideas ground into them ("REAGAN GOOD") whereas the majority is at least vaguely left by any objective standard, but they don't all move in sync.

 

post #2338 of 2754


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post



This is 2008 again, times 100. Once again, agencies that the market trusts to ensure an honest, level playing field are shown to be clueless. Or in on it.



I'll lean towards in on it.  Corzine is one of Obama's BFF's, and was tasked with raising funds from wall street for his 2012 campaign.  Scandalous.

 

Can someone parse what the 'Greek Referendum' really is?  Is it a vote to accept or reject the EU austerity measures, and to stay in the EU economic bloc, and to to go back to the drachma or not?  Plus there's another no-confidence vote planned? I'm really confused.

post #2339 of 2754

Pretty much all of the above at this point.

 

post #2340 of 2754
The broad picture, if I understand it, is that the Greeks get the opportunity we didn't get, which is a vote on whether to bail out the "too big to fail."

The threat of democracy breaking out in the industrialized west has sent Wall Street into a panic, and the New York Stock Exchange has collapsed in response.
post #2341 of 2754

I don't think the NYSE is collapsing because of OWS. I think it's a collapse of trust in the EU to actually prevent a total financial meltdown. And the collapse of MF Financial, and the revelation that they were blatantly disregarding basic rules of conduct ain't helping.

 

One thing that keeps getting lost in the shuffle: the Bailout in the US succeeded in preventing a total collapse, and in fact has paid back the US Taxpayer with interest. The problem is, the same jackasses who got us into this mess in 2007-2008 are still in charge, and have never been brought to book. That IMO is a major cause of the current outrage.

post #2342 of 2754

A 2.8% drop is now a "collapse"?  Hyperbole anyone?

 

Not saying the worst isn't yet to come... but come on, have a little perspective.

post #2343 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuddL View Post

A 2.8% drop is now a "collapse"?  Hyperbole anyone?

 

Not saying the worst isn't yet to come... but come on, have a little perspective.



We've been seeing the markets rocket up and down between 2% and 6% per week, sometimes per week. This shows that very smart people can't see any long term direction from the markets, so they react to daily and hourly news.

post #2344 of 2754

Pretty sure the stock market is run by various Skynets and WOPRs now.

 

Meanwhile, this is probably nothing: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8863728/Greek-military-leadership-changes-spark-opposition-outcry.html

 

 

 

Quote:
As Greek politics grew ever more chaotic strong political protests erupted as the government moved to replace military chiefs with officers seen as more supportive of George Papandreou, the prime minister.

 

post #2345 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

I don't think the NYSE is collapsing because of OWS.

Neither do I. If OWS was making that much of a difference, there would have been another "Guantanamo on the Hudson" by now.

No, I mean the Greek government putting their proposed bank bailout up for public referendum, instead of the "who the fuck do you people think you are? You're just the People! You don't make the laws! We make the laws!" approach that Washington took in December '08.
post #2346 of 2754

CylonBaby is correct.  All the Credit Default Swaps and systemic risk that tanked everything in 2008 are happening again, only in Europe.  With the same big banks behind it all:

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-01/selling-more-insurance-on-shaky-european-debt-raises-risk-for-u-s-banks.html

 

I enjoyed having a job again for a little while...

 

 

post #2347 of 2754

I was just coming here to post that.  Here we go, folks.

 

Also, good blog I've been reading lately on the economy (I think our resident expert, The Closer, posted a link from this blog once, which is how I came upon it):

 

The Big Picture

post #2348 of 2754

It's not happening "again"; it's still happening.  Think of the multi trillion dollar dark market of derivatives as a giant raincloud hovering over the entire earth.  It happens to be raining in Europe right now.  Goldman Sachs helped Greece hide its debt then bet big against the Euro.  It's the same people. 

 

Meanwhile, the Republicans filibustered another component of Obama's jobs bill - to create construction jobs repairing our crumbling industry, and paying for it on a .7 tax on all income ABOVE $1 mil.  Their top priority is to make Obama a one-term president, and taking the economy further is how they're evidently trying  to do it. 

post #2349 of 2754

Correct you are on both. Except this both parties serve themselves.

post #2350 of 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker View Post

Correct you are on both. Except this both parties serve themselves.


Next time the Democrats try to strip women's rights, voting rights, labor rights, minority rights, etc., or try to eliminate the estate tax or corporate taxes or environmental/safety/food/etc. regulations, let me know.  The system is corrupted thanks to a deliberate half-century-long strategy that has reaped massive benefits to a small group of sick, selfish neanderthals, but all of the people who produce that unending EEEEEE of whining need to start working on changing that rather than throwing up their hands and saying the whole thing's a disaster.  This system has taken a long time to corrupt.  It's not going to be changed overnight, and if you take a long, hard look at what happened to Alan Grayson and Russ Feingold and what almost happened to Peter DeFazio, you see that one person trying to change it with corporations now able to throw as much money as they want at any race they want and half-the public hypnotized by idiotic corporate "news" and only 20-30% voter turnout you'll see that the system desperately needs to change on all levels, but in the meantime, any vote not for a Democrat is a vote for a Republican.  Period.  And not voting to make some kind of statement that both parties are the same is a vote for a Republican. 

 

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