CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Political Discourse › The economy - oops
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The economy - oops - Page 50

post #2451 of 2547

Well sure, there are housing divisions all around Mowry Avenue. But you are right, the majority of people who frequent the place (and the ones who eat out apparently) live elsewhere and work in Fremont.

post #2452 of 2547

Unemployment down to 8.5% today.  Got a good trend going here.

post #2453 of 2547

It's only dropping in anticipation of the Republicans sweeping into power in November and saving us all. Duh.

post #2454 of 2547

Trickle down is so powerful, even the anticipation of it gives those small business owners the confidence they need to begin hiring.

post #2455 of 2547

"I can't afford to pay you until November, but you're hired! Here's some streamers and banners - I want Santorum ALL OVER the office."

post #2456 of 2547
Thread Starter 

I guess all that cheap money worked.  I just hope this is a trend rather than a blip.   The problem is confidence could falter if it appears that the Politicians STILL can't sort out the fiscal policies.  What happens in a couple of months after the payroll extension runs out?  What happens if they can't agree to a lasting tax / spending package.

 

Maybe Obama should let the Bush tax cuts expire, as that would only set them back to Clinton-era levels.  The country seemed to be doing just fine then.

post #2457 of 2547
Thread Starter 

 

And don't forget Europe.  It looks like Merkozy and Bundesbank are heading for another fudge.  The US is not immune to the effects of a deep European recession.

post #2458 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post

Unemployment down to 8.5% today.  Got a good trend going here.



The Republicans will do everything in their power to fuck up even the smallest amount of an economic recovery. The question is how much do things have to improve for Obama to convince the public that he deserves four more years to finish the job.

post #2459 of 2547

 

Quote:
So Buffett has pledged to match 1 for 1 all such voluntary contributions made by Republican members of Congress. “And I’ll even go 3 for 1 for McConnell,” he says. That could be quite a bill if McConnell takes the challenge; after all, the Senator is worth at least $10 million. As Buffett put it to me, “I’m not worried.”

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2012/01/11/warren-buffett-to-mitch-mcconnell-put-up-or-shut-up/#ixzz1jFqavFnI

 

http://swampland.time.com/2012/01/11/warren-buffett-to-mitch-mcconnell-put-up-or-shut-up/

post #2460 of 2547

Krugman, IMO, hits the nail on the head....again.

 

 

Quote:

America Isn’t a Corporation

 

“And greed — you mark my words — will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A.”

 

That’s how the fictional Gordon Gekko finished his famous “Greed is good” speech in the 1987 film “Wall Street.” In the movie, Gekko got his comeuppance. But in real life, Gekkoism triumphed, and policy based on the notion that greed is good is a major reason why income has grown so much more rapidly for the richest 1 percent than for the middle class.

 

Today, however, let’s focus on the rest of that sentence, which compares America to a corporation. This, too, is an idea that has been widely accepted. And it’s the main plank of Mitt Romney’s case that he should be president: In effect, he is asserting that what we need to fix our ailing economy is someone who has been successful in business.

 

In so doing, he has, of course, invited close scrutiny of his business career. And it turns out that there is at least a whiff of Gordon Gekko in his time at Bain Capital, a private equity firm; he was a buyer and seller of businesses, often to the detriment of their employees, rather than someone who ran companies for the long haul. (Also, when will he release his tax returns?) Nor has he helped his credibility by making untenable claims about his role as a “job creator.”

 

But there’s a deeper problem in the whole notion that what this nation needs is a successful businessman as president: America is not, in fact, a corporation. Making good economic policy isn’t at all like maximizing corporate profits. And businessmen — even great businessmen — do not, in general, have any special insights into what it takes to achieve economic recovery.

 

Why isn’t a national economy like a corporation? For one thing, there’s no simple bottom line. For another, the economy is vastly more complex than even the largest private company.

 

Most relevant for our current situation, however, is the point that even giant corporations sell the great bulk of what they produce to other people, not to their own employees — whereas even small countries sell most of what they produce to themselves, and big countries like America are overwhelmingly their own main customers.

 

Yes, there’s a global economy. But six out of seven American workers are employed in service industries, which are largely insulated from international competition, and even our manufacturers sell much of their production to the domestic market.

 

And the fact that we mostly sell to ourselves makes an enormous difference when you think about policy.

 

Consider what happens when a business engages in ruthless cost-cutting. From the point of view of the firm’s owners (though not its workers), the more costs that are cut, the better. Any dollars taken off the cost side of the balance sheet are added to the bottom line.

 

But the story is very different when a government slashes spending in the face of a depressed economy. Look at Greece, Spain, and Ireland, all of which have adopted harsh austerity policies. In each case, unemployment soared, because cuts in government spending mainly hit domestic producers. And, in each case, the reduction in budget deficits was much less than expected, because tax receipts fell as output and employment collapsed.

 

Now, to be fair, being a career politician isn’t necessarily a better preparation for managing economic policy than being a businessman. But Mr. Romney is the one claiming that his career makes him especially suited for the presidency. Did I mention that the last businessman to live in the White House was a guy named Herbert Hoover? (Unless you count former President George W. Bush.)

 

And there’s also the question of whether Mr. Romney understands the difference between running a business and managing an economy.

 

Like many observers, I was somewhat startled by his latest defense of his record at Bain — namely, that he did the same thing the Obama administration did when it bailed out the auto industry, laying off workers in the process. One might think that Mr. Romney would rather not talk about a highly successful policy that just about everyone in the Republican Party, including him, denounced at the time.

 

But what really struck me was how Mr. Romney characterized President Obama’s actions: “He did it to try to save the business.” No, he didn’t; he did it to save the industry, and thereby to save jobs that would otherwise have been lost, deepening America’s slump. Does Mr. Romney understand the distinction?

 

America certainly needs better economic policies than it has right now — and while most of the blame for poor policies belongs to Republicans and their scorched-earth opposition to anything constructive, the president has made some important mistakes. But we’re not going to get better policies if the man sitting in the Oval Office next year sees his job as being that of engineering a leveraged buyout of America Inc.

 

 

 

post #2461 of 2547

So it appears that the official 700 billion dollar bailout in reality exceed 7 trillion

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2011-11-28/secret-fed-loans-undisclosed-to-congress-gave-banks-13-billion-in-income.html

 

"The amount of money the central bank parceled out was surprising even to Gary H. Stern, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis from 1985 to 2009, who says he “wasn’t aware of the magnitude.” It dwarfed the Treasury Department’s better-known $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP. Add up guarantees and lending limits, and the Fed had committed $7.77 trillion as of March 2009 to rescuing the financial system, more than half the value of everything produced in the U.S. that year."

post #2462 of 2547

I don't think it's fair to characterize the Fed's discount window and other loan vehicles as a "bailout," as all that money needs to be paid back.

post #2463 of 2547

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-03/payrolls-in-u-s-jumped-243-000-in-january-unemployment-rate-drops-to-8-3-.html

 

Unemployment down to 8.3%.  Wouldnt be as exciting if it werent for this:

 

 

 

Quote:
The jump in employment was broad-based, including manufacturing, construction, temporary help agencies, accounting firms, restaurants and retailers.

 

post #2464 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-03/payrolls-in-u-s-jumped-243-000-in-january-unemployment-rate-drops-to-8-3-.html

 

Unemployment down to 8.3%.  Wouldnt be as exciting if it werent for this:

 

 


Totally agree.  And if Obama can pressure the GOP to pass the in-sourcing and domestic manufacturing tax reforms, maybe manufacturing can come back in this country. 

 

post #2465 of 2547
Thread Starter 
I think Clinton has been whispering in Obama's ear. He's been calling for some of insourcing for a long time.
post #2466 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

I think Clinton has been whispering in Obama's ear. He's been calling for some of insourcing for a long time.



This is all Obama, mate.  Clinton is still onboard with NAFTA, GATT and the WTO.   Obama has not broken away from the free trade delusion but I remain hopeful.

post #2467 of 2547
Thread Starter 
It's not delusional to believe in Free trade.

Anyway, I've definitely read articles with Clinton where he talks about the benefits of in-sourcing and US firms repaitriating overseas income. I'll try to to find them. It might have been the introduction to his recent book.
post #2468 of 2547

haysooos kristous.....

Quote:

 

Campaigning in New Hampshire for Obama's job, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum claimed credit for Republicans, suggesting the gains were tied to voter optimism that a Republican would take the White House.

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/USCP/PNI/MONEY/2012-01-07-PNI0107biz-economyART_ST_U.htm

 

post #2469 of 2547
Thread Starter 
That's hilarious.
post #2470 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-03/payrolls-in-u-s-jumped-243-000-in-january-unemployment-rate-drops-to-8-3-.html

 

Unemployment down to 8.3%.  Wouldnt be as exciting if it werent for this:

 

 

 

 


And wonder of wonders; no Government action needed! Turns out the wage income is narrowing, IP Theft is a real concern, and people care about quality!

 

post #2471 of 2547

Anecdotally, I got a raise this week!  So things really are looking up, or the bottom is about to fall out again (in my limited experience).

post #2472 of 2547

We're not out of the woods yet until we see what happens on March 20 with Greece's bond payments, but this is great news.

post #2473 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

It's not delusional to believe in Free trade.
 


Not if you're a CEO or shareholder.  But if you are a worker, it puts you in competition with people making 75 cents a day, who have to sign contracts not to commit suicide because working conditions are so horrible. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Anyway, I've definitely read articles with Clinton where he talks about the benefits of in-sourcing and US firms repaitriating overseas income. I'll try to to find them. It might have been the introduction to his recent book.


Ross Perot was right about the "Giant Sucking Sound."  Clinton has not disavowed NAFTA and free trade in general, and U.S. firms will never repatriate their overseas income unless the U.S. taxpayer foots the bill.  They won't pay what they owe unless forced, and they won't be forced because they have lobbyists. 

 

 

post #2474 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post


Not if you're a CEO or shareholder.  But if you are a worker, it puts you in competition with people making 75 cents a day, who have to sign contracts not to commit suicide because working conditions are so horrible. 

 


Ross Perot was right about the "Giant Sucking Sound."  Clinton has not disavowed NAFTA and free trade in general, and U.S. firms will never repatriate their overseas income unless the U.S. taxpayer foots the bill.  They won't pay what they owe unless forced, and they won't be forced because they have lobbyists. 

 

 

 

 

Haha just how do you enforce a contract that prevents you from committing suicide?

 

To the larger point, what's happening in many cases is that happy, well paid and competent workers beat that .75 cents per day slave. And that is also happening with things like Customer Service and Support. To be sure, there are lots of manufacturing processes that just don't need "smart labor".

 

I'm more optimistic about bringing money parked overseas back to the US. It won't be the full amount, but I can see Obama negotiating some percentage "discount" if corporations bring lots of cash back. It may not satisfy some people's need for economic "justice/vengence" but it will result in higher tax revenue, which is the objective.
 

 

post #2475 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

 

 

Haha just how do you enforce a contract that prevents you from committing suicide?

 


 


 

Shift the penalty onto a family member probably.

 

 

 

post #2476 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

 

 

Haha just how do you enforce a contract that prevents you from committing suicide?

 

To the larger point, what's happening in many cases is that happy, well paid and competent workers beat that .75 cents per day slave. And that is also happening with things like Customer Service and Support. To be sure, there are lots of manufacturing processes that just don't need "smart labor".

 

I'm more optimistic about bringing money parked overseas back to the US. It won't be the full amount, but I can see Obama negotiating some percentage "discount" if corporations bring lots of cash back. It may not satisfy some people's need for economic "justice/vengence" but it will result in higher tax revenue, which is the objective.
 

 



Nardo's right.  They withhold pay from family members.

 

Happy, well paid and competent workers are not in the majority in China.  Maybe call centers in Bangalore, but not manufacturing sweatshops.  There is no justification for this.  I have always believed that if a company considers itself American it should obey U.S. laws no matter where it puts its factories.  Workers' rights didn't come easy, and they're definitely not coming easy in the third world.  Companies that do this kind of undercutting of U.S. labor laws, to me, are committing crimes.

 

Why should corporations that dodged taxes in the U.S. get a discount?  If you dodged taxes, you'd get huge fines, possibly jail. 

post #2477 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post



Nardo's right.  They withhold pay from family members.

 

Happy, well paid and competent workers are not in the majority in China.  Maybe call centers in Bangalore, but not manufacturing sweatshops.  There is no justification for this.  I have always believed that if a company considers itself American it should obey U.S. laws no matter where it puts its factories.  Workers' rights didn't come easy, and they're definitely not coming easy in the third world.  Companies that do this kind of undercutting of U.S. labor laws, to me, are committing crimes.

 

Why should corporations that dodged taxes in the U.S. get a discount?  If you dodged taxes, you'd get huge fines, possibly jail. 

 

Well than all/most companies are de facto criminals in that view. Which is logically coherent but not the most practical philosophy. And I'm not saying that to condone or excuse: it's just the reality. Now would it be cool if the Obama Administration and/or US Chamber of Commerce and/or Business leaders and/or Labor leaders came out and really hammered home just how bad the worker's lives are in China? Yes, and I hope that happens.

 

I've been reading about Apple and Foxcomm and how Apple Execs created a set of standards they expected Foxcomm to adhere to. Then they actually audited Foxcomm facilities and found numerous violations.

 

Now you might say that Apple Execs are full of shit and just created those standards as a wink wink nudge nudge CYA exercise. I think they were sincere, but the problem is how can you track what's going on at numerous facilities with literally tens of thousands of workers?

 

And yeah I was not thinking when I did my "haha "on Suicide contracts. That is barbaric.

post #2478 of 2547

Don't hold your breath with regards to the US Chamber of Commerce speaking up. 

A good deal of people think that the USCoC is an "official" government agency, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

They are nothing more than a big business lobbying organization and are about as conservative as you can get these days.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Chamber_of_Commerce

 

They could probably give a shit about Chinese workers....hell, they probably think they are getting paid too much.

post #2479 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

Don't hold your breath with regards to the US Chamber of Commerce speaking up. 

A good deal of people think that the USCoC is an "official" government agency, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

They are nothing more than a big business lobbying organization and are about as conservative as you can get these days.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Chamber_of_Commerce

 

They could probably give a shit about Chinese workers....hell, they probably think they are getting paid too much.


True, but at least in theory their purpose is to support AMERICAN business AKA jobs in USA.

 

post #2480 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

 

Well than all/most companies are de facto criminals in that view. Which is logically coherent but not the most practical philosophy. And I'm not saying that to condone or excuse: it's just the reality. Now would it be cool if the Obama Administration and/or US Chamber of Commerce and/or Business leaders and/or Labor leaders came out and really hammered home just how bad the worker's lives are in China? Yes, and I hope that happens.

 

I've been reading about Apple and Foxcomm and how Apple Execs created a set of standards they expected Foxcomm to adhere to. Then they actually audited Foxcomm facilities and found numerous violations.

 

Now you might say that Apple Execs are full of shit and just created those standards as a wink wink nudge nudge CYA exercise. I think they were sincere, but the problem is how can you track what's going on at numerous facilities with literally tens of thousands of workers?

 

And yeah I was not thinking when I did my "haha "on Suicide contracts. That is barbaric.


In my view, they all are de facto criminals and Apple is the worst offender, being the market leader and making obscene profits on the backs of slaves.  They're an American company.  If you turned back the clock to the '70s and even the '80s, what Apple is doing with Foxconn would have destroyed its reputation and ruined the company.  Times have changed and outfits like the Chamber of Commerce and the Heritage Foundation have done much in terms of long-view marketing to ensure that people just accept disgusting greedy practices as the new normal.  The meme is that people gotta have their gadgets.  It's such horse*&^%.  It would cost Apple $75 per unit more to make its products in the US.  Reduce the massive profits at the top by just a tiny degree and you've got that paid for.  F%$k Apple. 

 

And yeah, they are full of s$#t about expecting Apple to adhere to their standards.  That's such a load.  They haven't moved their operations and must therefore own every horror that happens there. 

 

post #2481 of 2547

Thought this was interesting.  Had completely forgotten about Iceland, to be honest.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-20/icelandic-anger-brings-record-debt-relief-in-best-crisis-recovery-story.html

 

 

 

Quote:
The island’s households were helped by an agreement between the government and the banks, which are still partly controlled by the state, to forgive debt exceeding 110 percent of home values. On top of that, a Supreme Court ruling in June 2010 found loans indexed to foreign currencies were illegal, meaning households no longer need to cover krona losses.

 

post #2482 of 2547

Iceland is fascinating.  Not only did they tell the newly born investment class to go f*&^ themselves, in many cases women wrested power away from men to set their course straight. 

 

This line is important, but is being ignored in the Eurozone and red states alike:

 

Quote:
Iceland’s approach to dealing with the meltdown has put the needs of its population ahead of the markets at every turn.

 

post #2483 of 2547
Thread Starter 
Lucky for Iceland they're not in the Eurozone. Unfortunately for Greece, they are. Fuck the idiots who concocted this economically illiterate political dream.
post #2484 of 2547

Anybody read the NY Times Magazine piece this past Sunday, about daily worker/family life in modern-economic-crisis Greece?

 

As a Greek-American, it pained me to read parts of it, while other portions were more long-run optimistic.

post #2485 of 2547

The problem with the Foxconn stuff is that they build parts for everyone.  The only way to get away from their slave labor is to not buy technology.  I wish I were exaggerating.  Apple is just the most odious example with their self-righteous crap.

 

Enjoy something else to worry about, Japan!

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/20/us-japan-economy-trade-idUSTRE81J00720120220

post #2486 of 2547

currently listening to episode of "This American Life"

 

anyone here from Trenton, NJ....holy shit?! my sympathies

 

Quote:

What Kind of Country

All across the country right now, local and state governments are finding they can't pay their bills. Schools are losing teachers, street lights are going dark, garbage is piling up in public parks, and cops are suddenly an optional expense.

 

This week we travel to Colorado Springs, to Trenton and to the office of Grover Norquist to ask: Is the kind of country we want? One where government gets smaller? Or should we all pay higher taxes, and keep government bigger?
 

Prologue.

In the town of Nowthen, MN, residents held meetings to debate whether a police force is worth the cost. And in Springfield, IL, the state police motorcycle division has been cut, leading to an increase in highway fatalities. Host Ira Glass talks about these and other examples of the battle between proponents of small government and those fighting to maintain public services. (4 minutes)

 

Act One. The Sound of Sirens.

New Jersey governor Chris Christie has led some of the most sweeping budget cuts in the country. Producer Sarah Koenig reports from Trenton, where one third of the police force has been laid off, leading to dramatically increased crime. (14 1/2 minutes)

 

Act Two. Dream Come True.

Perhaps the biggest proponent of smaller government in the United States is lobbyist and activist Grover Norquist, head of Americans for Tax Reform. He envisions a government reduced in size by half, and has compelled scores of conservative politicians take pledges to never raise taxes. Host Ira Glass speaks with Norquist about his strategies and beliefs, and learns which side seems to be winning. (14 1/2 minutes)

 

Act Three. Do You Want a Wake Up Call?

After the recession hit, Colorado Springs was in rough shape. City services were being cut left and right. Then one man wrote a manifesto—a blueprint for how the city could solve its problems. Planet Money's Robert Smith tells the story. Robert is a member of the Planet Money team. (27 minutes)

 

 

I've said it before....FUCK Grover Norquist!

post #2487 of 2547

In the US the GOP fights to eliminate the Minimum Wage or at least keep it where it is. In literally every part of the world that America has outsourced to, countries are creating a minimum wage. Fucking Malaysia is implementing a minimum wage, as per today Wall Street Journal.

 

Seems the Arab Spring has really scared the governments of China and the rest of Asia. The gen pop now has access to the Internet and can research what their peers in other countries are making, plus how much more their elites have than they do. And they are getting pissed.

When will the US remember Henry Ford's philosophy of paying workers a good wage so they will buy the products we make?

post #2488 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

In the US the GOP fights to eliminate the Minimum Wage or at least keep it where it is. In literally every part of the world that America has outsourced to, countries are creating a minimum wage. Fucking Malaysia is implementing a minimum wage, as per today Wall Street Journal.

 

Seems the Arab Spring has really scared the governments of China and the rest of Asia. The gen pop now has access to the Internet and can research what their peers in other countries are making, plus how much more their elites have than they do. And they are getting pissed.

When will the US remember Henry Ford's philosophy of paying workers a good wage so they will buy the products we make?


Fun fact, Ford was sued (and lost) for putting the welfare of his employees and the public good above maximizing profits.

 

post #2489 of 2547

this article is making the rounds this morning...

 

Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

 

<excerpt>

Quote:

Over the course of my career I have had the privilege of advising two of the largest hedge funds on the planet, five of the largest asset managers in the United States, and three of the most prominent sovereign wealth funds in the Middle East and Asia. My clients have a total asset base of more than a trillion dollars. I have always taken a lot of pride in advising my clients to do what I believe is right for them, even if it means less money for the firm. This view is becoming increasingly unpopular at Goldman Sachs. Another sign that it was time to leave.

 

How did we get here? The firm changed the way it thought about leadership. Leadership used to be about ideas, setting an example and doing the right thing. Today, if you make enough money for the firm (and are not currently an ax murderer) you will be promoted into a position of influence.

 

What are three quick ways to become a leader? a) Execute on the firm’s “axes,” which is Goldman-speak for persuading your clients to invest in the stocks or other products that we are trying to get rid of because they are not seen as having a lot of potential profit. b) “Hunt Elephants.” In English: get your clients — some of whom are sophisticated, and some of whom aren’t — to trade whatever will bring the biggest profit to Goldman. Call me old-fashioned, but I don’t like selling my clients a product that is wrong for them. c) Find yourself sitting in a seat where your job is to trade any illiquid, opaque product with a three-letter acronym.

 

Today, many of these leaders display a Goldman Sachs culture quotient of exactly zero percent. I attend derivatives sales meetings where not one single minute is spent asking questions about how we can help clients. It’s purely about how we can make the most possible money off of them. If you were an alien from Mars and sat in on one of these meetings, you would believe that a client’s success or progress was not part of the thought process at all.

 

It makes me ill how callously people talk about ripping their clients off. Over the last 12 months I have seen five different managing directors refer to their own clients as “muppets,” sometimes over internal e-mail. Even after the S.E.C., Fabulous Fab, Abacus, God’s work, Carl Levin, Vampire Squids? No humility? I mean, come on. Integrity? It is eroding. I don’t know of any illegal behavior, but will people push the envelope and pitch lucrative and complicated products to clients even if they are not the simplest investments or the ones most directly aligned with the client’s goals? Absolutely. Every day, in fact.

 

On one hand, I applaud this guy for writing this op-ed piece and laying bare the culture of greed....on the other hand, why did it take him so long to realize that he was "sleeping with the devil" ? 

 

I had a conversation with a friend 20 odd years ago with friend who was big on "investing" in the stock market. After listening him describe the buying and selling he did, I mentioned to him that it sounded pretty much like he was just "gambling". He steadfastly refused that analogy saying that it was all about research and knowledge of a company to determine whether a stock would go "up" or "down". I mentioned that this is nothing more than what a professional Vegas gambler does when it comes to knowing about horses or how many cards are left in a deck when playing blackjack...he was still "betting" that the stocks would go up/down. He wouldn't have any of it.

The bottom line is that "the House" will do (or say) anything to keep the odds in their favor to ensure that they win. 

 

It might be overly simplistic, but I wonder...how many of these individuals that are, at the very least, somewhat responsible for the financial mess this country is in, saw the movie 'Wall Street' and thought that Gordon Gekko was the "hero" of the film?

 

 

post #2490 of 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

It might be overly simplistic, but I wonder...how many of these individuals that are, at the very least, somewhat responsible for the financial mess this country is in, saw the movie 'Wall Street' and thought that Gordon Gekko was the "hero" of the film?

 


This is one of cinema's most famous anecdotes about the public misreading a film, along with Fight Club.

 

I'm a proponent of capitalism. Of the free market. What we have now isn't either of these.

 

 

 

 

post #2491 of 2547

 

A bunch of my friends are Libertarians. They are constantly posting these RSAnimate videos harping on their points. Would they shit a brick if they saw this one?

post #2492 of 2547

I've been DVR'ing Bill Moyers new show on PBS and have been working my way through them. 

 

This one is so good, so worth watching. 

 

 

How Big Banks Are Rewriting the Rules of Our Economy

 

 

Quote:
Big banks are rewriting the rules of our economy to the exclusive benefit of their own bottom line. But how did our political and financial class shift the benefits of the economy to the very top, while saddling us with greater debt and tearing new holes in the safety net? This weekend, on an encore episode of Moyers & Company, Bill Moyers talks with former Citigroup Chairman John Reed and former Senator Byron Dorgan to explore a momentous instance: how the mid-90’s merger of Citicorp and Travelers Group — and a friendly Presidential pen — brought down the Glass-Steagall Act, a crucial firewall between banks and investment firms which had protected consumers from financial calamity since the aftermath of the Great Depression. In effect, says Moyers, they put the watchdog to sleep.

 

 


Edited by yt - 4/4/12 at 8:10pm
post #2493 of 2547

My best friend is a producer for Moyer's show. They do great stuff over there.

post #2494 of 2547

If Facebook buying a company that has never made money, for one Billion dollars, isn't tech bubble 3.0, then I don't know what is.

 

Also Spain is going to implode and it will be 2008 all over again.

post #2495 of 2547

Zuckerberg told the Board of Directors he was doing the deal practically after the fact. If that's how much input the Board has, what say do you think shareholders are going to have?

 

Spain is a real problem. Their government has apparently understated their debt problem dramatically. 50% of ALL Spaniards 25 and under are unemployed, including a large population of people with Professional degrees.


In a sane world the US would do everything it could to get those professionals to immigrate, but OMG! NO IMMIGRATION! Let's train those out of work US truck drivers to be Engineers instead!

post #2496 of 2547

Oh yeah, it was completely boneheaded, but I already heard from analysts that it's a bellweather for new tech spending, and how social media is going to revolutionize everything.  I thought I had fallen into a time-hole.

 

Spain sounds like Greece x 100.  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-18/italy-follows-spain-in-delaying-deficit-goal-amid-slump.html

 

Also Greece isn't 'fixed'

 

post #2497 of 2547

stumbled across this DailyKos piece via BoingBoing

re: European austerity measures.

 

I can only hope that this giant economic experiment with austerity will be the proof needed to show the followers of Milton Friedman and the 'Austrian school' of economics that their ideas are full of shit.

 

Quote:

The cruel stupidity that is economic austerity

 

When right wing politicians talk about deficits you can be certain that they're waging class warfare. When right wing politicians pursue economic austerity you can be certain that they're waging class warfare. If right wing politicians truly cared about fiscal responsibility, they would raise taxes on those who can most afford to pay more taxes and they would end corporate handouts, whether they be direct subsidies or the indirect enabling that is having the public foot the bill for environmental and other public harms incurred as part of corporate profit making. If politicians cared about balanced books they would do what's best to grow the economy and rectify social and economic imbalances. Prosperity does not trickle down. If given the chance, it can blossom up.

 

In the United States, the only honest fiscal solution is to end the Bush tax cuts, end foreign military adventurism, stop pretending that it's necessary to spend more on military and ostensible national security hardware than the rest of the world combined, and end all forms of corporate subsidies. If a corporation cannot survive on its own it deserves to die. If a corporation's survival serves some vital social or security need and it cannot survive on its own, then it should be socialized rather than publicly subsidized. After all, public subsidies to privately held corporations already are a form of socialism, it's just that much of the money goes into private pockets rather than serving the public good.

<cont.>

 

I thought this was bit was quite pertinent AND really depressing.  redface.gif

 

Quote:

 

In January, Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz provided the perfect analogy:

 

"It reminds me of medieval medicine," he said. "It is like blood-letting, where you took blood out of a patient because the theory was that there were bad humours.

"And very often, when you took the blood out, the patient got sicker. The response then was more blood-letting until the patient very nearly died. What is happening in Europe is a mutual suicide pact," he said.

Keynesian economics, which require governments to help sustain demand, suggests that austerity measures should be imposed when an economy is booming, not waning.

 

post #2498 of 2547

It is the elephant in the room that no one's talking about.  I talked to an Italian reporter a few days ago who was saying the same thing about Italy.  The end result of austerity is a dark place.  All you have to do is look at Germany to see a model worth following, yet the media, Chicago school economists and most politicians pretend it's not even there, talking about it as being a robust economy but not explaining why. 

post #2499 of 2547

This was incredibly depressing:

 

http://www.cringely.com/2012/04/not-your-fathers-IBM/

 

IBM is going to cut their US workforce (everything but upper management, government projects, and sales) by 78% to get earnings-per-share up $20.

 

It's not just the decline of american manufacturing anymore, it's the decline of american everything.

 

I don't think the work I do, or the company I work for can be easily outsourced, but that stuff makes me worry.

post #2500 of 2547

What is going to happen to the EU if the Socialist party pics up the French presidential win?

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Political Discourse
CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Political Discourse › The economy - oops