Diablo Cody versus the haters - Page 2

Can we do a revote?

It's in the book, you giant tool.

It's reassuring to see that your disastrously wrongheaded close readings aren't restricted to the Rowling canon. Cody doesn't give the impression that she was particularly detached while she was a stripper, at least not in the way that you seem to think she has.

Based on the fact that her upcoming projects actually sound pretty great, I'm curious as to what data you're using to come to this conclusion. A blog post?

::blink::*

I found it fairly apparent that Juno was in love with Paulie Bleeker from the word go, even if he was, in name, her friend. Adolescent sexuality is tricky like that.


* - Kind of a blinky day on the boards.

She should've done a video similar to Will Ferrell's new one.

Really? And her affection for him was realistically portrayed by sitting him in a chair? That scene didn't seem to be very naturally affectionate. It was distant, strippery, lapdancey.

Of course, one COULD explore WHY a teenage girl would be that distant, clinical, in her approach to sex. I don't think the film really did explore that. That coldness, that practicality, that distance extended all the way through to the adoption process, and right to the final, "happy" ending where the absent child is seen as a great thing for the fledgling adolescent romance finally back on track. Cold as hell. I can't see a relationship based on such coldness actually surviving.

I love it when post #2 contains everything a thread needs.

Serious question: have you ever had sex?

Shoulda bailed on this thread a long time ago, happy to do it now.

Ugh, Diablo Cody is using the tired "Well, if you don't like my ____, you try making ____" argument. Well, if somebody can love them and not make movies, surely somebody can hate them and not make movies of their own. Otherwise her fans are also invalidated.

I didn't like Juno. Does this make me a sexist/chauvinist? That's like watching Spike Lee's early movies and being called a racist if you didn't enjoy them (though yes, as in Cody's case with sexism, there were racists who hated his movies). I think Sofia Coppola is a great filmmaker. My motives for not liking Juno are related to how grating I found the movie to be. What is cutesy and offbeat to some is an irritant to others. I couldn't discern much wit in the dialogue; it was either gibber to me or characters speaking the plainly obvious in a quirky way.

And the scene in the hospital (seeing the baby) disturbed me.

EDIT: Just because she has a public blog doesn't make her any more "real" or "fake" than anybody else. If you're quick to point her out as an everyperson, that's just from a good publicist at work...

Am I too late to make a Diabolical Biz Codee joke?

Also, the lady's cool.

As long as you can work in a reference to how the more hateful Cody detractors have caught The Vapors, it's never too late.

Well, basically everyone in this thread has been level headed and had the exact opposite of the typical internet reaction to something like this...

Then NoDiggity reminds me why it's embarrassing to post on message boards.

Weren't you the guy, and I'm so sorry if I've confused you with someone else, that bought five tickets to see The Dark Knight opening weekend before he'd even seen it once? The whole argument on why that's bizarre is because you could use that time to catch up on other movies. No one's saying you have to go outside your comfort zone and rent some obscure pretentious pseudo classic, but you sure as hell could have caught up on the best picture nominees from last year.

Absolutely, it does. That's exactly what she's saying - "if you don't like my movies, you hate women." If you get any meaning besides that out of her blog post, you're completely misreading it.

I bought one ticket initially for opening weekend. For a Friday midday showing at Arclight. I had wanted to go to the midnight screening, but they were all sold out, and Arclight is my preferred theater. But as it got closer to release, I went ahead and bit the bullet and got one for the Thursday midnight screening at the Grove. I figured if I didn't like it, I could always get a refund for the Friday ticket. I don't see anything unusual about that.

I saw every best picture nom except Juno because of all the hype. I passed a theater playing it almost every day, and was tempted to go, but I didn't want the hype, which turned me off, coloring my reaction, because I'm normally averse to quirky indie movies. It didn't help that I hated Little Miss Sunshine, and I think it had something to do with the jizz express that flew through the population in regards to that movie. I subsequently watched it again after everything calmed down and still didn't warm to it. As far as Juno is concerned, I simply forgot about it...but I'm sure I'll be seeing it sometime soon.

EDIT: Although I did plan on seeing Dark Knight multiple times opening weekend if I really liked it, which I expected to, and I did. I think some people misread that as excessive, when it's what I and many other people have done for big summer releases we're eagerly anticipating based on a character or franchise we have a love for. It's probably childish, but fuck it, I got enough adult problems and that's alot of my relaxation.

i mean at least she's hot and all but what about all them fuckin lesbos posting in her blog comments ammirite bro

As per the Leo/Shia hatred, it's always been seen as that many fanboys are either closeted, or deeply uncomfortable in their sexuality, so anyone who exerts less masculine tendencies in their appeal becomes threatening to them.

Diablo gives the world the amunition to hate her, it's too bad that generally those that do only hate her for the things she wears as armor. Diablo told you these things, and you took the bait. People who can't seperate the artist from the art are idiots, though. That's different than art being so bad or mediocre that you can't divorce yourself from whatever X is. I don't ever watch City Lights, or Chinatown and think about how the directors had sex with 14-year-olds.

Chaplin had sex with 14 year olds? No shit.

I always thought most of the negativity aimed at those kind of actors had more to do with the fact they live the lives we desperately want.

Why is it people say "Oh, I avoided that film because of all the hype," but they have no problem buying into other highly hyped films?

I kind of see what you mean here. It happened with Orlando Bloom too. I wouldn't call this necessarily a fanboy thing so much as a teenager thing though. I'm just spitballing here, but maybe it has to do with the subversion of traditional masculinity. 'Someone like Russell Crowe fucks everyday and makes millions because he's so bad ass. How come Orlando Bloom does the same when he's such a fucking pussy? I mean, did you see what a pussy he was in Troy, and yet still-it's raining sex on Orlando Bloom.'

I remember in high school, every guy hated DiCaprio. Every guy. Now that I'm not hanging with insecure high school kids that are still figuring sex out, the only place I see Shia hate is an AICN talkback.

I'm deeply uncomfortable drawing any parallels between Leo and Shia. One's one of the more talented actors of his generation, who had the good luck/bad luck to star in the most successful film of all time and subsequently had to deal with the overexposure that accompanies that. The other's an average, not-bad-not-great actor whose hobbies include driving drunk in a laughably huge pickup truck in LA, and who apparently has incriminating photos of Steven Spielberg in a very, very safe location somewhere.

I don't know.

These are movies they haven't been hyping themselves. If it's not a superhero movie or a sequel and people are hyping it up, it must be bullshit or overrated.

You don't like Shia? Clearly you're sexually frustrated.

Also, DiCaprio only truly won everyone over when he convincingly played a hard ass in The Departed.

Indeed! How can you say "I skipped Juno because of all the hype" and then buy tickets to two (TWO) DARK KNIGHT midnight screenings? Goddamn if any movie that I can think of recently had THAT much hype going into it.

Everyone hated DiCaprio and Timberlake in high school and now they're the shit.

Because we're biased. Duh.

EDIT: But you sort of misread me Dickson. I avoided it because of the hype, but moreso because I wanted to like a movie I normally wouldn't like. I was my own worst enemy and I was trying to fix that.

To further tangle and derail the topic, a lot of fanboys felt the same way about Ledger when he was first cast by Nolan. It's easy to forget how he was perceived before going 'dark' and dying in rock star fashion.

DiCaprio won me over when he went full retard in WHAT'S EATING GILBERT GRAPE.

Ah, but he had to go home empty-handed...

The main problem with Shia, at least to me anyway, is that the recent high-profile films he has appeared in have sucked asbestos.

The thing is, that argument is absurd. "If you didn't like Juno, you obviously hate women." That's just silly, and doesn't really hold any water. To say nothing of the women I know who didn't like the film("cloying and over-sentimental"), it's just not an argument you can really effectively apply on any large scale. "If you don't like No Country For Old Men, you obviously hate men." See? It doesn't really flow that well.

If Juno was, say, a rousing portrait of Susan B. Anthony that was met with a resounding "what a slut lol" response, then yes. I could buy that argument. Otherwise, it strikes as remarkably insincere.

SARCASM, DUDE.

Oh. Oh, you annoy the life out of me, kiddo. So I'm going to say this - Does anyone else here think that it wasn't completely, painfully obvious within the first fifteen minutes of Juno that she was in love with Paulie Bleeker? Anyone. Anyone at all.

But as to your other point: Sometimes, when a man and a woman (or a boy and a girl) love each other very much, they have sex. And, sometimes, when they do this, the woman (or the girl) is on top. There is nothing inherently "strippery" or "lapdancey" about it. If that's what you're seeing there, I think you need to take a step back, have a good think about the implications of that reading, and maybe abstain until you get your head straight. 'Cause that's weird.

What's cold about making sure a child you can't take care of has a loving home?

And why do I keep falling for this garbage?

I'd also like to add (because I have nothing of substance to really add to this conversation) that a girl on top is the best thing ever.

NoDiggity is the least self-aware person on the internet.

Well, I fucked up, then. This is my reward for posting with a high fever.

Juno was the one taking the initiative, she is the strongest personality of the two, she was on top. It's a creative choice and fairly obvious one.

The kind of hatred towards Cody that's evident around the net is definitely a display of misogyny. Of course, terminal nerds are bitter and petty towards everyone who's made something out of his or her life and is successful and liked by people. Shia LaDouche anyone?

I don't really see the comparison between Shia and Leo, other than the fact that they're both hated by internet fanboy types and loved by me. It took me a while to come around to liking Leo, but I've thought Shia was hilarious since Even Stevens. I remember in a "kids like you" ad for the Disney channel, where they have actors talking bout everyday things, he professed his love of Elton John "until Candle in the Wind". Then he sorta looked in the distance and shook his head, funniest fucking thing I ever saw on the Disney channel.

Look at it this way:

Diablo/Shia/Leo -> Amadeus
Fanboys -> Salieri, if he were completely tone-deaf

He meant the Princess Diana version, right? Sounds pretty funny from your description.

I was going to post that I've never seen Shia Labeauf in anything, but had to check on imdb. Turns out I saw him in Constantine and in some minor roles in Freaks and Geeks and other things. Oh, and SNL. That's about it.

I don't mean to disparage a guy I've barely seen, but remember that when DiCaprio was his age, he'd already racked up a pretty good number of if-not-universally-acclaimed, fairly eccentric and challenging roles (This Boy's Life, Gilbert Grape, Basketball Diaries, The Quick and the Dead, Romeo and Juliet). Labeauf's picks have been a bit more pedestrian - the picks of a fanboy, not a serious actor. I mean, that's fine. Robots need their sidekicks and all, and it would be hard for most young actors to pass up playing second fiddle to Indiana Jones. But it just doesn't seem like these two guys are going for the same thing at all.

They're not going for the same thing. Shia is a comedic actor (and he is good at it).

Not only does that gloss over most of Amadeus, it's just so easy and smug and falsely superior. Whenever fanboys come up, it's always a huge chance to break our arms off patting ourselves on the back for being more mature, or some shit. Why is the sharpest and most angry vitriol on Chud always directed by the small and easily ignored (and absent on Chud) fanboy minority? Most of these hated fanboys are fourteen year olds that weren't so different from us when we were that age. It's like everyone's still working through high school shit here, sometimes.

Saying you like Juno and Diablo Cody does not instantly give you a "I have a mature understanding of women (and I've been laid too!)" medal.


This isn't really aimed at Mastro specifically, btw. Sorry to single you out.

The only thing that Shia and Leo have in common is a non-rugged masculinity that can border on feminine. Very few famous people don't have their haters. But there are good reasons to hate things (lack of talent, directly stolen material ala Dane Cook), and bad ones. Diablo is complaining about specific hating, which eminates from places like Defamer. Now... were her EW columns terrible? I would argue yes.

The problem with hating is - unless you are a critic - subjecting yourself to entertainment or people you don't like repeatedly makes you a hater. To invest enough in people or things to the point that you hate them is jealousy. As one comes to grips with the world, and finds that life is uniformly unfair, the best way to deal with things like that if it doesn't effect your daily life is to ignore it. I guess you can get apopletic over Tyler Perry, or You Got Served, etc. but to have a real opinion on it, you'd have to experience it, and if you do then you're likely wasting your time.

I used to think they were all 14 years old, then most of them lost their minds when Bay changed the (hahahahahahahaha) "mythology" of Transformers.

Nothing about Shia ever struck me as very feminine. He's not incredibly manly, but he strikes me as more neurotic and nebbish than feminine.

Really, even though Chinatown clearly makes references to mollestation. Wonder why Polanski would have an interest in exploring such topics....

I like your work Andre, just saying.

Diablo Cody is pretty annoying. I really have nothing else to ad.

Right. It's not the dislike of Juno or Cody; it's the degree to which you allow yourself to dislike them and the reasons for the dislike. As soon as you cross over into ridiculous hyperbole (to say nothing of the creepy violent vagina-related things you'd like to do or see done to Cody or Ellen Page), I'm going to assume there's a little something extra working behind your opinion, be it jealousy, misogyny, or whatever.

I'm sure the Saw sequels are terrible. I'm not curious about them. So I don't watch them. I'm sure I might hate them if I saw them, but then that would require energy. I enjoy my life too much to willingly subject myself to art I think is inferior for the sake of nothing.

Shia's is skinny, and in Transformers it's Megan Fox who cuts the head off the lil' Transformer, while Shia screams for it to get off of him. I wouldn't say he's a "pretty boy," in the same way Orlando Bloom or DiCaprio are/are accussed of being, but he plays comically weak, which is socially codified as feminine.