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Terminator 2: Judgement Day (1992) - Page 3

post #101 of 225
9/29/08 at 12:52am
Hasta la vista, baby.
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post #102 of 225
9/29/08 at 12:55am
The only thing better in X3 than Furlong in T2 is Beast. That's it.
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post #103 of 225
9/29/08 at 12:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Kimbell View Post
I was about to say "T2 is better, obviously," but then I remembered I hate X3 so much I haven't even seen it.
Ditto.

Maybe that's why I don't get the connection. Why compare these two particular films?
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post #104 of 225
9/29/08 at 1:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Ditto.

Maybe that's why I don't get the connection. Why compare these two particular films?
At some point it was decided it would be interesting to compare a great sequel from the early 90's to a stain of a sequel from '06. An insightful exercise to say the least.
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post #105 of 225
9/29/08 at 1:12am
I guess T3 would be more comparable to X3. I feel like Ratner could have done T3. I don't care for T3, I thought it was unnecessary, and I don't like where the franchise is going. Didn't the story end nicely with T2?

T2 hasn't aged well for me, and I suppose it's the nostalgia effect, but when I saw it in the theater it was one of the most intense movie experiences of my life at the time. I like how the story opened up and explored the ramifications of time travel in a classic sci-fi way (despite the glaring paradox, which is part of the fun), which gives the whole concept of time travel more of a point for being in the story than just an excuse for a super-human killing machine being present in modern times.

The third film undid what T2 accomplished by dumbly asserting that Judgement Day was inevitable for no convincing reason. The continuation of the story abuses the time travel conceit to the point that, going into the 4th and 5th films and beyond, the original story has been weakened and reduced in relevance, which is a discredit to Cameron's work. And that's not to mention the TV series, which I don't watch, but apparently has alot of ridiculous stuff going on. With all this unlimited time traveling, how can the story ever come to a satisfying conclusion?
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post #106 of 225
9/29/08 at 1:14am
I don't think anyone is gonna hold the TV show against the films. Good God I hope that's the case.
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post #107 of 225
9/29/08 at 3:45am
The TV show largely ignores the events of T3, so that's one point in its favor.
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post #108 of 225
9/29/08 at 10:48am
Let us not forget that T2 basically caused the LA riots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post
The only thing better in X3 than Furlong in T2 is Beast. That's it.
Pretty much agreed, but I have to admit X3 had some great action(in comparison to the first 2).
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post #109 of 225
9/29/08 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
Let us not forget that T2 basically caused the LA riots.Pretty much agreed, but I have to admit X3 had some great action(in comparison to the first 2).
No, it really didn't.
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post #110 of 225
9/29/08 at 1:31pm
I assume Nexus was joking.
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post #111 of 225
9/29/08 at 2:03pm
X3 had no good action.
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post #112 of 225
9/29/08 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
No, it really didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
I assume Nexus was joking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bees?! View Post
X3 had no good action.
You're probably all correct, and no I wasn't joking. I've only seen it once and I was somewhat impressed(maybe it was the "Ratner standard"), or the obvious wirework of the first 2(especially 1).

I'll give it another shot. Fuck.
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post #113 of 225
9/29/08 at 2:21pm
Fuck it, I'll say that T2 is one of the defining examples of action cinema. If it's on, I'm watching it, I don't care if I spent one summer watching it every damn day. The effects hold up, the action is still tense and exciting to this day (despite all attempts to mimic them) and even the performances are pretty good. I even like Furlong in it. And it gave Robert Patrick his defining role, he can't be in anything without someone going, 'Oh shit, the T1000 is in a new movie.' And for all the ra-ra Tomb Raiders and Aeon Flux wunder-wymin, James Cameron wrote one of the best, most believable action heroines with Sarah Connor.

Simply one of the best.
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post #114 of 225
9/29/08 at 2:23pm
All I remember about X3 is that they added a whole bunch of new characters who did not add much to the overall story and that it was a giant mess. If we're talking about successful movies followed by disastrous sequels, X3 is a way bigger let down from X2 than T3 was to T2. There really was nothing good about X3.
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post #115 of 225
9/29/08 at 2:24pm
People talk about Furlong being the weak-link but frankly would there have been any child actor at the time that could have done better? And yes the catch-phrase scene is cringe worthy but you could see the reason having it there. It's not that big of a deal.

And I pretty much agree with what Doc says re: Sarah Connor.

Shit, that movie is probably Arnold's finest work.

And as for the X3 - T3 Comparison. It was clear that X3 was going to happen and it would've continued the story. What happened was the fact it got rushed jobbed and they shoehorned Ratner into it. T3 I figure is kind of like Live Free or Die Hard, a bunch of the old players got together and made a movie with a different director. Although T3 is more of a terminator movie than Life Free is a Die Hard movie.
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post #116 of 225
9/29/08 at 2:34pm
"Fuck you, you little dipshit!"

This movie will always rock.
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post #117 of 225
9/29/08 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
You're probably all correct, and no I wasn't joking. I've only seen it once and I was somewhat impressed(maybe it was the "Ratner standard"), or the obvious wirework of the first 2(especially 1).

I'll give it another shot. Fuck.
Look, if it'll steer you from doing something stupid, I concede that the Wolverine/Sabretooth fight is the only bit of passable action in the first one (although it does have some cool "power" moments). The 2nd also has too much wirework, and the end is a letdown in the action department, but it does have the mansion invasion and the Nightcrawler opening, which is far and away the best put together sequence in the series. The third has all the set-up in the world for massive spectacle, but it pretty much all comes out as Wolverine and Beast swinging at redshirts.

If you do insist on revisiting, just do your best to focus on Ellen Page and block the rest out.
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post #118 of 225
9/29/08 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Patrick called Furlong a shitty actor. I responded thats because he wasn't an actor. You said that doesn't excuse his performance. I think it does to a degree.
It's still a critique-able (and critique-worthy) element of the film though. If an "actor" can't act because they're NOT an "actor", the finished product suffers. They shouldn't have been in front of the camera in the 1st place. I'm not as bothered by Furlong's inability to be natural as I am with the personality he projects onscreen. Lil' John Connor (EDIT: to clarify character and not actor), who the audience is supposed to sympathize with, is a little prick, and not a likeable one IMO.

As popcorn spectacle, I think this flick works like gangbusters.
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post #119 of 225
9/29/08 at 3:26pm
Thread Starter 
When I say he is a shitty actor, I mean he is shitty at acting. I don't care why he's shitty at acting.
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post #120 of 225
9/29/08 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post
Renn Brown, Diva, You are right, T2 and X3 arent in the same league...X-Men The Last Stand is a better than T2. As much as I like James Cameron's films...I like The X-Men just a little more. Wolverine vs Juggernaut, and The X-Men Vs the Brotherhood is quite...Epic in the action department.
Your opinion will no longer be taken seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Few Action movies can stand up to THE KILLER.
You ain't just whistlin' Dixie partner!
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post #121 of 225
9/29/08 at 5:14pm
This flick was probably my first exposure to an R-rated movie. My brother and I watched it constantly, so therefore I'm terribly biased when it comes to T2. I haven't seen it for a while, but the last I did I still got a huge kick out of it. I still hum that droning T-1000 'theme' from the score at random times.

Furlong's never bugged me, but it's likely because I've been exposed to his 'acting' since I was in grade school. Maybe it's bad, but there's some energy and life to it. And I don't get that sense of creepiness I get from the technically good performances from Fanning or Osmet.

The FX stand up pretty well. Cameron is generally a pro when it comes to deciding what VFX technique to use for his films. He mixes it up so that you can never just go, "Arg, it's CGI (or whatever)!" The motion-captured animation of the T-1000 walking out of the flame is pretty stiff, but I think they found a nice balance between that and having Robert Patrick work that stiffness into his physical performance.

About the use of Bad to the Bone for Arnold's wardrobe intro, I think even Cameron said he went back and forth about using it in the DVD commentary. But in the end, he just went "Fuck it, I like it!"

"She's not my mother, Taaaaaaaahd!"
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post #122 of 225
9/29/08 at 6:02pm
Like Patrick, I waver back-and-forth on this one.
On the one hand, the action scenes are spot-on, and this is the only film I actually like Arnold in.
On the other hand, although I'm not as annoyed by the actors as some, the whole thing does feel pretty bloated and self-indulgent.
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post #123 of 225
9/29/08 at 7:01pm
halofan1, I never said I didn't like T2...I just like X-Men The Last Stand more. My favorite character in X-Men is Wolverine, and he has a lot of great scenes in X3.
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post #124 of 225
9/29/08 at 10:30pm
All other quality considerations aside, I still think that the end of T3 is more true to the tone and themes of the first film than T2's. Call me a cynical misanthropist, but T2's conclusions are just too syrupy and life-affirming for a series that revolves around the annihilation of mankind by his own creations.
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post #125 of 225
9/29/08 at 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
All other quality considerations aside, I still think that the end of T3 is more true to the tone and themes of the first film than T2's. Call me a cynical misanthropist, but T2's conclusions are just too syrupy and life-affirming for a series that revolves around the annihilation of mankind by his own creations.
I know this is considered blaspheme of a sort, but I prefer the whole of T3 to T2 these days. Pretty much for the reasons you've mentioned. Now, I'm not crazy, I don't think T3 is better than the first one, just as far as the sequels are concerned, give me the silliness of the third one with the apocalyptic ending over the overwrought kid's movie of Judgment Day.

By the way, did T3 even make mention of the fact that, at the end of T2, in all their zeal to destroy the CPU and the Terminator arm from the first movie, they left behind a new arm in the steel mill, spark factory, whatever that place was?

I'm not even sure if it was sloppy filmmaking, maybe that was Cameron's way to leave open a sequel possibility, but it does call into question the intelligence of the characters, and the Terminator. Surely the T-800 realized that he was missing a limb. Always kind of bugged me.
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post #126 of 225
9/29/08 at 10:51pm
To be fair, the chip was the main thing that was important. The whole AI architecture was from that right? The arm is mainly how to make a working robotic arm.

Besides, they could have gone back and destroyed it.
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post #127 of 225
9/29/08 at 11:00pm
Still pretty sloppy.

I still feel sorry for Miles Dyson and his family. Those awesome cops just rush in and start blasting away. Damn, the guy was basically a hostage. What a way to cap the day after the fun of the water park.
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post #128 of 225
9/29/08 at 11:19pm
Well it was the LAPD circa '91. Morton never had a chance.
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post #129 of 225
9/29/08 at 11:30pm
True, he was lucky they didn't beat his ass before they let him blow himself up.
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post #130 of 225
9/29/08 at 11:45pm
Look, it was dark. I'm sure that they mistook that detonator for a wallet...er I mean a gun.
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post #131 of 225
9/29/08 at 11:45pm
The movie has plenty of good quotes, but the one that makes me laugh everytime is when the SWAT guy gets shot in the back with the tear gas.

"Oh... GOD it hurts!"
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post #132 of 225
9/29/08 at 11:47pm
You fellas who don't like Cameron's use of Bad to the Bone should consider yourselves lucky. Imagine if he had gone this direction with Miles Dyson's death:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wYYU43Nvw4
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post #133 of 225
9/30/08 at 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post
Well it was the LAPD circa '91. Morton never had a chance.
Actually, didn't he live in Fontana, Palmdale or some shit like that? That wasn't LAPD's doing.

One great thing I remember about this movie. Old School Pepsi logo product placement.
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post #134 of 225
9/30/08 at 12:36am
That was an LAPD operation all the way. Between the Cyberdyne Systems clusterfuck, the handling of the Nakatomi siege, and the "murder" of Mason Storm's family I have no idea how Daryl Gates kept his job as long as he did. So many scandals.
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post #135 of 225
9/30/08 at 12:40am
I'm sure Nakatomi was dumped on Deputy Chief Dwanye T. Robinson, they must have hung his ass out to dry.

And Gates hung around as long as he did because at the time the Chief of Police was a civil service position. So it was a real bitch to get him out.
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post #136 of 225
10/1/08 at 2:46pm
Well his job wasn't made any easier by all these loose cannons with no respect for procedure.
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post #137 of 225
10/1/08 at 3:07pm
Yeah, you could do so when you ask them to put their badge on your desk. Surprisingly, that doesn't stop them.
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post #138 of 225
10/1/08 at 6:06pm
Two things that I really loved in the original:

- the bleak atmosphere
- the dark violence

I think having the Terminator switch sides to protect Connor was an interesting choice for a sequel, but making this scary killing machine a "surrogate father" for Edward Furlong just didn't feel right. There are times the T-800 nearly feels like the one of the first, but after John goes "Don't kill anyone, you can't just kill people"... it loses a lot. They should have let him kill. This way, he felt like a huge toy to play with, like a RC car.

It's a god damn Terminator. A machine simply build to infiltrate and kill. It shouldn't do funny stuff or learn how to sound like a Arnold cliche. They could have used the uneasy trust into their needed protector to build up more tension. You never once mistrusted Arnold... but you should have.

When Arnold pulls off the skin of his arm, I'm always bugged at how cool John stays. I mean Sarah already saw this shit, but to anyone else it should be creepy as fuck. I'd certainly give me the creeps.
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post #139 of 225
10/1/08 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Myers View Post
I think having the Terminator switch sides to protect Connor was an interesting choice for a sequel, but making this scary killing machine a "surrogate father" for Edward Furlong just didn't feel right. There are times the T-800 nearly feels like the one of the first, but after John goes "Don't kill anyone, you can't just kill people"... it loses a lot. They should have let him kill. This way, he felt like a huge toy to play with, like a RC car.

It's a god damn Terminator. A machine simply build to infiltrate and kill. It shouldn't do funny stuff or learn how to sound like a Arnold cliche. They could have used the uneasy trust into their needed protector to build up more tension. You never once mistrusted Arnold... but you should have.
What I find funny about this concept: if I was John Connor's father figure, I'd want to kill him. The lil' prick. Whatta paradox!

I will be your father figure. Put your tiny hand in mine... so I can CRUSH it!!!
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post #140 of 225
10/1/08 at 6:21pm
Wasn't Arnold being the hero in T2 a secret held away from the trailers, tv spots, etc.?
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post #141 of 225
10/1/08 at 6:52pm
No. It should have been, but the reveal was given away in even the earliest trailers. I believe the tagline for the advertising was "He's back...for good". It really messed up the movie too, because it plays as if you should be afraid of him up until the moment in the hospital when he opens fire on Robert Patrick.
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post #142 of 225
10/1/08 at 7:09pm
How would they have kept that a secret? I know we were all living under Internetless rocks back in '91 but it's pretty hard to keep a very general plot point like that under wraps.

"Luke, I'm your father" you can keep a lid on for at least a weekend. Arnold being a good guy in a film for over two hours not so much.
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post #143 of 225
10/1/08 at 7:13pm
They managed to keep the whole guy that comes back at the end of POTC: DMC a secret didn't they?

Besides, it gets fairly obvious when Arnie first finds John. Advertisting is another thing though.
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post #144 of 225
10/1/08 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
They managed to keep the whole guy that comes back at the end of POTC: DMC a secret didn't they?
I don't know, did they? Never saw any of those movies.
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post #145 of 225
10/1/08 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay f View Post
Man, I went to see this opening day, and I dunno, just didn't enjoy it as much I should have I guess. Lots of great explosions and effects, but it just didn't do it for me.
I think the biggest problem I have with it is Arnie's Terminator coming back as a good guy. I hate it when stars want to be the heros.

And of course that awful G&R song.
It helps if you saw it in 75mm, everything look better in 75mm. T2 does not get the boost from 75mm that Total Recall got, but it help the film watchable greatly. Watching Total Recall in 75mm was like talking a 2 hour roller coaster ride.


I miss 75mm
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post #146 of 225
10/1/08 at 7:26pm
"I swear I will not kill anyone."

I was glad they progressed the story. To me, it's a no-brainer. You've got the biggest action star in the world (at the time), and the dollar dictates he can't be a savage killing machine. In understood that going in.
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post #147 of 225
10/1/08 at 7:27pm
Isn't it 70mm?

Anyway, Cameron talks about the "Arnold as Good Guy" conundrum in the commentary track he did with William Wisher. He was aware of the fact that the marketing would play up the reversal that he would want to save as a surprise. I don't think it was something he thought was worth causing a fuss over because it would get out anyway. But he still made the movie as if people wouldn't know since advertising is 'of the moment' and hopefully the film will be a little more long-term than that.

As for Geoffrey Rush's reappearance at the end of Pirates: DMC, I'd say that was an a relatively easier thing to keep under wraps because that surprise doesn't really have much bearing on the rest of the movie. When I saw those boots walk down those steps, I was giddy because I thought it was gonna be Chow-Yun Fat. I was disappointed when it wasn't. But that was minor compared to the disappointment I suffered when I actually saw Chow Yun Fat in the third movie. What a crappy character.
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post #148 of 225
10/1/08 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
Isn't it 70mm?

Anyway, Cameron talks about the "Arnold as Good Guy" conundrum in the commentary track he did with William Wisher. He was aware of the fact that the marketing would play up the reversal that he would want to save as a surprise. I don't think it was something he thought was worth causing a fuss over because it would get out anyway. But he still made the movie as if people wouldn't know since advertising is 'of the moment' and hopefully the film will be a little more long-term than that.

As for Geoffrey Rush's reappearance at the end of Pirates: DMC, I'd say that was an a relatively easier thing to keep under wraps because that surprise doesn't really have much bearing on the rest of the movie. When I saw those boots walk down those steps, I was giddy because I thought it was gonna be Chow-Yun Fat. I was disappointed when it wasn't. But that was minor compared to the disappointment I suffered when I actually saw Chow Yun Fat in the third movie. What a crappy character.
it been so long I forgot, but I believe you are right it is 70mm
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post #149 of 225
10/2/08 at 2:04pm
Anyone else hate the alternate "And they all lived happily ever after..." ending?
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post #150 of 225
10/2/08 at 6:56pm
I hate the real ending, so that didn't make much of an impression on me.
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