I think his mind is no longer in Mint condition

I've always wanted more black superheroes who weren't walking(flying?) stereotypes, but what a silly reason.

So if Smith becomes Cap, I guess that means they're dropping the whole WWII aspect?

There's two parts to this, I think.

The first one is "I always thought about doing this and maybe now the general public is more open to this idea" which I'm fine with.

The second one and knowing Marvel the more probable is "Black President=Black Captain America=$$$" which is really kind of insulting. "Hey black people, we can turn Captain America black but only if the whites agree."

Make Will Smith Isaiah Bradley and fuck Steve Rogers. How awesome would it be if they made movie-Captain America all anti-establishment and shit? I know comic Cap's been anti-establishment in the past (the ideals, not the administration and all that) but to have him be pretty actively fucked over by the government would be cool.

REJIGGER AND DO IT

This needs to happen, if only for the massive outpouring of psychotic racism from internet fanboys the world over. Hopefully they'll all get lathered up into a frenzy and start eating each other alive.

Yes, it does. And I would love it for the same reason as Jake.

My sentiments exactly.

I like Will Smith and all, but I say give the role to Laurence Fishburne. Dude can act, and has the gravitas worthy of Cap.

Two main reasons why this should happen:

1. He'd probably make a pretty good Cap
2. The suicide note from an ANGRY, SCARED AND CONFUSED Harry Knowles.

I agree that Fishburne can act the role, but he's lacking the physique. Plus, I think it would be a mistake to underestimate Will Smith's ability to play the role.

Ideally, this would be a great idea. I'd love for them to go revisionist and pick a black Cap, and write him as such. But you're really making a superhero movie secondly, and a story about a black man in WWII first. If they tackle the material with that sober approach, then sure.

I don't think Will Smith is the right man for the approach, however. That dude just plain sucks.

Disagree. The only reason I am Legend was watchable was because Smith is such a magnetic presence onscreen. Fuck it, I'd like to see what he does with the role and how (if) they address the societal issues with a black 1940's Captain America.

Agreed with Misfit. If they get a strong script that focuses on character and the racial issues at play with the black Captain's origin, it would be possible to get Smith in his Ali mindset. The dude can act when he's pushed, and this is the type of role that could do it while retaining the commercial appeal that is Smith's trademark.

Yeah, but he hasn't been "pushed" for years, and now that he's the number one star in the world, he likes it that way. The guy not only is a superficial actor, but he brings his own posse with him to his films- writing teams and such. And there's that recent, unfortunate alliance with Akiva Goldsman.

You bring Will Smith into this, and you're not making a Captain America movie, you're making a Will Smith movie.

I'm just idealistic enough to believe that Marvel wouldn't let the writer of Batman & Robin anywhere near one of their films. I don't think he and Smith are necessarily a package deal.

Immediately calling out fanboys as racist because they'd take issue with the casting of Will Smith as Captain America looks like little more than lazy posturing as it fails to acknowledge the basic nature of fanboys. Before anything else, fanboys are fucking fanboys. If you're the lucky creative force behind that $150 million 'Snapper Carr' tentpole film and you don't know if Carr prefers boxers or briefs, fanboys will lose their shit.
Anyone see any of those manipulations of that first promo image of Brandon Routh in the Superman costume? People had actually taken the time to slightly alter the cut of the suit (like the size of the shield) and his fucking hair to their preferred length.

Hell, I'll even confess to being guilty of that sort of thing. When I first saw the teaser for the Thomas Jane Punisher film, and his hair was still blond, I was like: "he is going to dye his fucking hair right? right!?"

The more invested one is in a character, the more specific they'd probably like an adaptation to be, racism doesn't always have to enter into it, only nerdism. Those uglier kind of feelings are not to be ignored, they certainly exist, I'm not saying they don't, and I can think of several examples to prove that they do, but it's not the end all be all. Your Progressive Membership will not be revoked if you don't take some kind of reactionary stance against fanboys not liking the racial/ethnic shift of their spandex-clad obsession, I promise.

Surely Fishburne can get into shape, build some muscle mass, in time to shoot? Worked with Bale in Batman Begins.

I like Smith, and thought he was great in Ali, but he's built up a bit of a wise guy persona (ID4, I Robot, Bad Boys, etc.) that the general public's pretty much used to. - push comes to shove, he might do a great job as Cap, but I think Fishburne would be a lock for a great performance. Jamie Foxx might be another consideration, or if they're going for strict action adventure, maybe Dwayne Johnson? Just spitballin' here.

My geek side, however, still likes the idea of Aaron Eckhart as Cap (thanks to Nick gfor that one!).

Doesn't Lee kind of have fuck all to do with creative decisions like this at Marvel (ESPECIALLY Marvel Studios), making this whole discussion moot anyway?

Interestingly, we had a discussion around here about just this subject a few months back. Personally, I kind of like the idea. Cap is supposed to represent the American ideal. The melting pot is part of that ideal. Having a black man come to represent all that is quintessentially American would be a pretty cool idea. Besides, Steve Rogers is the most boring secret identity in the history of comics. Casting Will Smith can only make him more interesting.

And by the way, Lawrence Fishburne is 47 years old, and he looks it.

Anyone who would care to argue this should watch the speech he gives pre cave orgy in The Matrix Reloaded.

Yes. I mean, fan casting is one thing, but if you're going to employ time travel, why not go all the way and cast Sidney Poitier?

One of the reasons people suggest Smith is because he can still play young. This is an origin story, so we need a fresh-faced Cap. Lawrence Fishburne is a TERRIBLE suggestion.

A black Captain America makes no sense. In the 40s the USA still had legal racial segragation. Why would the government turn a black man into a super human soldier and make him into a symbol of strength and freedom?

Because it's a comic book?

I see, so you want more realism from your story of a guy who runs around in red, white and blue chain mail carrying an indestructible shield. You want more rigid adherence to history in your fantasy story of a super soldier who helped us win World War II.

Okay then.

edit: Or what Spike said.

Dumb is dumb. Whatever the medium.

See also: The clear explanation in this thread.

See also: The Tuskegee Experiment

So you seriously do want rigid historical accuracy from the story of a costumed super soldier? Is that actually what you're saying?

Originally Posted by the wiki on Isaiah Bradley
Reinstein's early attempts to refine [the super soldier formula] were tested on African-Americans. Three hundred of these soldiers were taken from Camp Cathcart and subjected to potentially fatal experiments at an undisclosed location in an attempt to re-create the Super Soldier formula, as seen in Truth: Red, White & Black. Only five subjects survived the original trials. In the name of secrecy, US soldiers executed the camp's commander and hundreds of black soldiers left behind at Camp Cathcart. The government told the families of the three hundred subjects that their loved ones had died in battle.

The sole survivor of his test group, Bradley stole a spare costume intended for Captain America before he engaged in a suicide mission to destroy the Super-Soldier efforts of the Nazis at the Schwarzebitte concentration camp. There, he was also able to assassinate Koch. The mission ended when the Germans captured Bradley. Nazi interest in the American supersoldier was high; he was even brought before the Führer himself. Bradley was later rescued, only to be court-martialed and imprisoned at Leavenworth around 1943. In 1960, Bradley was pardoned by President Eisenhower and released.

This would be an interesting idea, actually. Maybe the government experiments on a black soldier with no intention of turning him into a superhuman, then decides to use his unexpected abilities to their advantage.

You guys are probably right, I'm putting too much thought into a comic book adaptation.

Not to mention that going with this plot, you can easily integrate the standard, white Captain America and get one completed character arc, even as you develop standard cap for The Avengers movie.

I also think it gives the movie a lot more interest than making yet another paint-by-numbers WW2 movie.

I don't have a problem with Will Smith taking the role because he's black, I have a problem with Will Smith taking the role because he makes movies like Hancock.

Whatever joy or fun the script might have will be neutered long before it goes in front of cameras if Smith is involved. He'll escape blameless, as we rush to blame whatever shitty screenwriter and director is involved, and go on to ruin another movie.

That's Smith's real life super power, to be in the crappiest movies possible and yet they still make billions of dollars and he remains an A list star.

I've had the pleasure of chatting with Stan Lee a few times in the past couple of years and he seems in complete control of all of his mental faculties. I think him saying he wouldn't mind seeing Will Smith as Captain America means nothing more than he things Will Smith has the presence of Captain America and might be good in the role - regardless of skin color.

I read this and vaguely remembered they already retconned a black Captain America into the Marvel universe, Tuskegee parallels and all. Went and found the Wiki page.

Edit: Nevermind. Just saw someone cut & pasted from that entry. Skimmed through the thread too fast.

Well, if they went the "Truth" route with Isaiah Bradley...I don't see it being lead material for a Cap movie.

It would be more of a subplot showing Cap what came before and what resulted. If you've read the Truth mini-series, Bradley didn't fare too well decades after the injections. He's pretty broken down and well old. He's not as tip tip as a Steve Rogers or a Nick Fury.

What, Stan Lee wants the biggest movie star working today to appear in a comic book movie?

Funny, isn't it?

Just goes to show you how out of touch he is with today's popular culture.

Will Smith has a flippant persona that he carries to nearly every role. That wouldn't work for Cap. He's also too much of a big star. How about Daniel Sunjata from Rescue Me? I also like the Dwayne Johnson suggestion mentioned above.

Edit: Chiwetel Ejiofor would make a great Cap too.

Smith also guarantees that someone unimpressive will sign on to direct. Judging from Smith's filmography, is it that Smith doesn't care to work with big ticket geniuses? Or do they consciously avoid him?

Since working with Michael Mann in Ali, Smith has logged time for these directors...

Barry Sonnenfeld
Michael Bay
Alex Proyas
Andy Tennant
Francis Lawrence
Peter Berg
Gabriele Muccino

Considering he's the "World's Biggest Star", that's not much of a murderer's row.

I know, right? Why would Marvel potentially want a Captain America movie starring Will Smith and directed by Michael Bay? Talk about throwing money out the window!

Yes, let's not try to make the character interesting. Let's make sure that he stays the same dull, lifeless cipher that he is in most of his comics runs. That's the way to make a good movie.

More than any other superhero, the best way to make this movie cough up blood and die is to make him faithful to the comics version. He's bloody boring.

You're missing the point. Every well-known superhero is basically a gimmick with a slight veneer of a personality.

None of these characters have any inherent depth (Watchmen not withstanding). Any superhero is only as good as the creators involved.

Captain America's gimmick is that he is a symbol of the American dream, the ideal. The character does not work as sarcastic or cynical.

I think one of the reasons that Nick likes Eckhardt for the role is that, judging by his role as Dent, he radiates that kind of goodness without making that type of character boring. Smug one-liners wouldn't work well on the character.

The interest in the movie would be his idealism clashing with the non-idealistic world that he inhabits.

That might be interesting as narrative, but it makes the world more interesting than the character. That's death. Idealism is simply not an interesting character trait. There has to be more. And there's no reason that Will Smith can't play an idealist, by the way. Have any of you seen anything other than Men in Black?

Will Smith can act. The scene in FRESH PRINCE where he breaks down and admits to accidentally giving Carlton "speed" has a raw power to it.

Just think Miracle at St. Anna but with one guy and he's got super powers. Also throw in some Nazi aliens.

Being There. With that, I'll throw Peter Sellers hat into the ring of Cap candidates, no one ever said that fantasy casting had to be governed by rules.

In that case, let's go all the way: Hal Ashby's Captain America, starring Peter Sellers. With Michael J. Pollard as Bucky.

It's certainly gonna be quirky.

In all seriousness, I don't think Steve Rogers has ever had any writer grant him a long and well-defined run as a character, but like Chance the Gardner, that can be a good thing for a reasonably ambitious filmmaker looking to project his own social concerns and anxities into the character.

This may not be as overtly seditious as making Captain America black, but is there not a story to be told about a man, culturally and politically conservative by today's standards (and perhaps even then), who fought to protect the future of the country he loved only to by pure chance skip 60 + years into a future that you just know he never envisioned?

Though I really hate to credit Mark Millar with anything, there is a moment in Ultimates 2 where Rogers is talking to Bucky, quietly lamenting his out of true relationship with Janet Pym. He's basically weeping because her values, her sense of self, and her sense of their relationship, is completely alien to him, and it isn't played for a laugh. The scene isn't revolutionary, but it was a solid piece of writing, and made the character flesh for one of the few times in his existence. There's a lot to be done with the high-concept "fish out of water" scenario that goes with a Captain America film, and it doesn't have to be the "What's a mi-cro-wave?" shit that is generally leaned on in mainstream material.

60 years in a blink of an eye, nothing gradual about it, no curve, no time to absorb the changes, everything at once. That's a story, and Steve Rogers can quite easily (or quite roughly and uncomfortably) be defined through it. In this hypothetical storyline it might also be a nice chance to juxtapose his potentionally negative and/or disturbed emotions about 21st century America with the ideologies of terrorist heavies instead of an unchallenging comic book adversary like the Red Skull.

In the end, it's not a great big deal to me. I like Captain America, and I'd like to see a really good film adaptation, but whether it does or doesn't happen or what it eventually looks like is not a major concern of mine. Putting so much stock in film adaptations of comics proves the frailty of the comic industry, it shows that the comics are in fact, not their own reward. As a lover of the form I think that's sadder than anything, and I'd love it to become a non-truth rather than see Brad Pitt rock the shit as Killraven.