MLB 2008 Post Season thread - Page 2

I srill think it was the right decision. Would have been damn nice if Javier had his '07 form in '08. There was a graphic that said Vazquez would pitch the fifth game if it were to get that far. Wouldn't there be four days between games two and five? No way they don't skip Vazquez for Buehrle if they're lucky enough to get there.

Things looking bleak for the Cubs right now.

Manny Ramirez is having a conversation in the dugout with Don Mattingly. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

Manny's the best hitter I've ever seen. It's just completely effortless.

If you didn't see, I urge you to check out the 2nd inning of the Phils/Brewers game -- particularly, the Myers at-bat.

I heard it in the car. It was great the way the crowd reacted as the pitches just kept coming. Louder and louder each time. After he walked Rollins you knew what was coming next.

Yeah, I'm not surprised or overly upset by the loss today. The Sox now have their best three pitcher going three straight. Looking forward to the rest of the series. Javy seems to be as good as a big game pitcher as Zambrano right now...

Wow! I must say that i'm shocked at what the Dodgers have done to the Cubs in the first 2 games. Although i grew up a Dodger fan with all the talk about this being the Cubs year, it would kinda sadden me to see them out of the playoffs so fast.

I think the White Sox will be okay. It's probably better to lose game one than two, plus the Sox now have two lefties in a row coming up. Go Sox!

Same here! I'm a Dodgers fan as well and deep down, I've always wanted the Cubs to win the world series..i mean, 100 years is a bit much..

When it's all said and done, it's Joe Torre vs. Lou Piniella. Who would you put your money on? Really?

Wrong.

This is true. Torre owns Lou and it looks like things aren't any different this time around. Poor Cubbies.

I guess Sweet Lou walked all those guys in game one and made all those errors in game 2. Come on, about the only move he could have made differently was not putting Fukudome in the lineup.

Last night made me think of the 2000 ALCS. Torre owns Lou.

Cubs, Cubs, Cubs .... are you trying to murder your fans? You can't coast in first place for half the season and then play that bad. Who do you think you are? 2006 Detroit? They at least made it to the World Series.

Conventional wisdom says that managers are more important in the playoffs, when every move is magnified in a short series. I'm just saying.. go with the track record here. Who's pushed the buttons more successfully, historically?

Fukudome is an easy scapegoat for the Cubs. Yeah, he's been useless offensively for awhile, but it's not like he suffered from a lack of control in Game 1 or booted 4 balls in Game 2. Nor is it like he put his name in the lineup. Subbing Reed Johnson in wouldn't have made a difference in those games.

I've nothing to say about the Brewers yesterday. Sabathia pitched his worst game for the Brewers, Corey Hart killed an early potential rally (he's been as bad as Fukudome lately), and they really couldn't muster any offense. It's tough to see them coming back and winning 3 in a row against the Phillies even if Bush has been pitching well in the second half. I have tickets Saturday and I hope they can extend it, they did it in 1982, but the Phillies sure look like the better team.

Re: Sabathia not performing in post season

Dear Brewers,

Please watch 2007 collapse of Cleveland Indians in postseason to appreciate that C.C. is not at his best in the playoffs.

Phils and Dodgers is gonna be a great series.

Looks like Lou said FUK U to Fukudome.

See I'm not buying that this year. More so after how he pitched on Sunday with the whole season on the line. I think yesterday he simply didn't have enough gas in the tank. It was his fourth straight start with three days' rest. IMO, it caught up to him.

That, ultimately will be why the Dodgers don't play the Brewers in the NLCS.

Which is actually how he pitched all postseason for the Indians last year. Both he and Carmona were their two aces all season and both were ineffective in the playoffs. Overuse in the regular season was the common refrain of analysts and fans. Either way, in the playoffs C.C. never seemed to be bringing his best stuff and it looks like it's happened again.

The Brewers never had a shot against the Phils.

Because, you know, a clutch pitcher would've shut the Phillies down, on the road, on his fourth consecutive start on short rest. That's what differentiates losers like CC Sabathia from guys like Josh Beckett, a guy who couldn't sniff 250 innings pitched if his life depended on it.

Sabathia, with the entire season on the line, on his third consecutive start on short rest, pitched a complete game shutout. Don't be surprised if trotting out the he can't perform in a big spot line rings awful hollow to most at this point.

There's no good in putting yourself out there to get slaughtered. The result is WORSE when you don't have an arm than if your number 3 starter pitches. Look at Zambrano and the Cubs, same issue. It would have been better to get him rest and have him pitch in Game 3 than do that and it's his fault for volunteering to do it again.

I don't understand what you're saying. He should've packed it in after Sunday? He's the only chance the Brewers had at winning anything. The rest of the rotation (and the bullpen) is dreadful.

He's proven himself to be a terrific teammate who carried a dying team on his back into the postseason. I'm not buying this "he can't pitch in the postseason!" crap after what he's done over the past two, three weeks in the heat of the race.

What is this, a science? You think CC Sabathia knows if he's got another game in him in advance? He's been pitching in uncharted territory for weeks now, and your solution is to, what, throw Dave Bush and Manny Parra into games 1 and 2 on the road? That's in any way desirable?

Dave Bush and Manny Parra....wow.

I still can't believe the Mets couldn't make it in over them.

This is really another of those "Barry Bonds chokes in the post-Season" deals, isn't it? Or "Derek Jeter always comes through in the post-Season"?

Why isn't it a case of, Sabathia wasn't sharp and didn't get any help from the umps? And, you know, the Brewers could actually have done something against Brett Myers.

BTW, a lot of teams would like to have Gallardo, Bush, and Parra in their rotation. Especially Gallardo.

Park Adjusted League Average ERA 4.34
Dave Bush 185 IP of 4.18 ERA, 104 ERA+ made all his starts too and didn't run out of gas

Yeah, sucks to have him.

Manny Parra 166 IP of 4.39 ERA, 99 ERA+, did run out of gas in the second half, but first half counts in the standings

For comparison

John Maine 140 IP of 4.18 ERA, 99 ERA+
Oliver Perez 194 IP of 4.22 ERA, 98 ERA+
Pedro Martinez 109 IP of 5.61 ERA, 73 ERA+

It's not like Pelfrey pitched a lot more innings than Sheets either. A full year of Santana is worth more than a little over a half year of Sabathia, but the idea that the Mets starting rotation was significantly better than the Brewers was a myth. Especially since the Brewers starters pitched more innings and exposed their bullpen to less work.

But why overthink things?

Mets 4.07 ERA
Brewers 3.87 ERA

I've seen plenty of number 4 or 5 pitchers unexpectedly step up in the postseason. I know there are stats that basically say, on generally it's better NOT to pitch your guys on short rest. Every once and a while for an amazing pitcher is ok but certainly not 3 times in a row.

To think that putting a guy out there again and again is a good thing is just ridiculous. I know the Brewers don't really care if they blow out Sabathia's arm since he's not going to be with them next year but man, he's going to end up like Mark Prior.

And my post wasn't meant to imply "he can't handle the postseason mentally". I meant the grind of getting to the playoffs (especially when he's had to carry the team there himself) leaves him exhausted and unable to pitch at the level of the regular season.

Yeah, but to get Sabathia to pitch twice in the series, the Brewers had to pitch him in Game 1 or 2. He'd have pitched Game 5 on normal rest.

And considering that the Brewers have only scored 3 runs in 2 games, does it really matter? Scoring 6 runs every now and then would help.

And Kazmir starts the game by hitting the first batter and then loading the bases...this is gonna be a long game. I have no idea what Joe Madden sees in that guy but he hasnt been good since before the All-Star break. He'll be out in three innings if hes lucky at this rate.

It's great to look back now and act like it was obvious that the fourth consecutive start on short rest was bound to fail, but then one has to wonder, would the Brewers even be in the playoffs had they followed your advice?

It's not a 'hindsight is 20/20' type thing though. You were making a risky call the first time. An even more risky call the second time. The third time though? That's just getting ridiculous. Sure CC got them into the playoffs and it was a tremendous effort. But, you're going to expect him to win 2 out of 3 games of the NLDS? You've still got the NLCS and then the WS if you want to win it.

To not have the faith in the rest of your rotation that you can win 2 games with a starting pitcher that isn't CC means that you won't have much chance to win the other 2 best of 7 series either. Plus, if you do start him in game 5 that means he's not available until Game 3 of the next series. It just seems like pointlessly reckless decision making.

Hey, it's been 26 years since the Brewers have been to the post-season. Even if they don't win anything, it's worth it to the franchise to get there and establish credibility with the fanbase. Probably makes free agents at least put the Brewers on the radar as well. There's really no downside to making the post-season.

You do realize that Sabathia would be on normal rest after the first game, right? And that the Brewers would have been perfectly willing to not start Sabathia on short rest if they could have avoided it. Heck, considering they only scored 2 runs, Sabathia could have pitched well and the Brewers still could have lost. Yeah, they didn't play well in September. Guess what, the Mets didn't play well in September either and they started Santana on short rest. Were the Brewers not supposed to try their best to make the post-season and see what happens?

As you said, unlikely pitchers do step it up occasionally. Heck, it's not like Game 1 was a badly pitched game. Bush vs. Moyer isn't an unwinnable matchup. Nor is Game 4. It isn't likely to happen, but teams have come back from down 0 and 2, especially at home.

Just popping in to say this isn't true. Especially of the bullpen, which ranked in the upper echelon of the NL bullpens. Even higher if you remove Turnbow's dreadful stats from his few blowups before he was sent down. They aren't a flashy bullpen, but they weren't even mediocre, let alone dreadful.

God dammit! Red Sox absolutely OWN the Angels in the post season. I can't believe the Angles rolled over like a dog. They left a ton of runners on base, other than Texiera nobody can do much, and K-Rod once again gives up a big hit in the 9th inning. Angels don't really deserve to win. I guess this is what happens to teams that clinch early, not much to play for in September.

I guess the best thing about being a White Sox fan right now is that, due to having absolutely no expectations, they don't look as bad as the Angels or Cubs? At this point I am just hoping for any of the teams down 0-2 to push a game five, because so far the first round is shaping up to be a total bust.

I feel like Mickey scouting Clubber Lang in the beginning of Rocky III when I watch Manny and the Dodgers. Jeez.

I am so mad at the Phillies ownership. If they had sprung for Johan Santana instead of the Mets then we would be steam rolling to an eventual World Series championship. We just need two great pitchers.

Myers and Moyers don't cut it.

I still think we can beat the Dodgers. However, I don't see us beating the Soxs. Our only hope is that the Rays win the American League Pennant.

God it would be so fucking awesome to wear a 2008 world series champions cap to the new Mets stadium.

Not going to happen, but it would fucking rule.

What the fuck happened to the Cubs? I thought they were going to make it this year.

Where's the idea that the Rays are going to be any easier to beat than the Red Sox coming from? They have a better record than the Red Sox over the past 164 games, they're healthy, and they added David Price to the mix.

Well, we all know the Rays are going to falter in Augus... I mean the postseason! In all seriousness, The RedSox aren't as strong this year as they were last, so, imagining a World Series involving the Rays is definitely not insanity.

Gotta say, though, Selig must be thanking his lucky stars now that the Brewers are behind the eight ball, a Brewer-Rays series would've been television kryptonite.

Eh, I wouldn't mind seeing the Cubs suck on it for another century or so.

There is something to be said for postseason experience, and the Red Sox have proven themselves to be the best organization in baseball the last few years. The Rays are young and relatively untested... which might not mean anything. It may just be perception, but when you're looking for a reason to feel some sort of hope for your team, you take what you can get.

As good as the Rays have looked and are looking I really believe that this is a one year fluke. They have A LOT of good young players but ownership probably won't keep them once they become free-agents. They'll end up going to the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, Angels, etc. teams that have they'll break the bank to get god players.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Dodgers Red Sox World Series. Not only would it get huge ratings, much to the delight of FOX and Mr. Selig, but Manny going back to haunt his old team hitting a game winning homer over the Green Monster... Priceless.

Congrats Red Sox - you are the Yankees.

Let's make it 200 years!