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To the enemies of the advancement of gaming as a medium, a.k.a. A Personal Protest. - Page 2

post #51 of 88
10/1/08 at 4:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bees?! View Post
I disagree, sir and challenge thee to a duel. Aliens FPS games are generally of a high quality and deserve that pass.
True....I had such the soft spot for Alien Trilogy and Resurrection on PS1....but as FPSes, Aliens games work primarily due to the tension, one person against the horde. Even though they've been fairly basic otherwise, that atmosphere's helped ease the tedium. But just like the film, having a squad of ultimate badasses as your heroes leeches tension. And again, I reiterate, it's been done, and done well before. What makes this different besides the licensed Xenomorphs as enemies?

Quote:
I agree on the AvP shafting for consoles. AvP and AvP2 are excellent, i'm pretty sure we've had a strategy game and... that's it? Alien Resurrection & Predator: Shitty Concrete Jungle I figure don't count?
See above on Resurrection, but Predator Concrete Jungle's a goddamned joke of a game.
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post #52 of 88
10/1/08 at 4:59pm
Was resurrection PS1 fare? Jesus that makes me feel old. I remember when it was still third-person and pulled back for redevelopment.

Personally though, i'm a big Aliens fan, so maybe i'm not looking at them as I should be - but the Co-op modes on AvP were incredibly tense, the single-player marine campaign was pretty damn unnerving and had beautifully designed levels, which might to some, seem just a little too dark or sparse.

The predator, personally, i've found, sucked any tension out of the game - since he was the unstoppable killing machine. The marines always get mauled.
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post #53 of 88
10/1/08 at 5:05pm
Thread Starter 
Again, I'm leaving AvP 1 and 2 out of this. They were great. Thing is, even though the Predator side was easy, and lacking tension, it was a big heaping bowl of FUN. And it was a style of gameplay you so very rarely see done right, even these days.
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post #54 of 88
10/1/08 at 5:27pm
You can't excuse two of the good ones just cos of Predator concrete jungle - it didn't even have space marines in it!
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post #55 of 88
10/1/08 at 5:31pm
If people haven't already you should really check out the Fracture demo, just to laugh at HOW utterly rote and generic the main character is.
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post #56 of 88
10/1/08 at 5:45pm
Worse than Turok? Haze?!
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post #57 of 88
10/1/08 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
And this means the game will be different and more innovative than the other games with space marines killing alien species with big guns because of what, exactly?
There is a known universe when it came to playing this game. Sure I was a bit young when I played these games but I had a BLAST playing as the space marine throwing flares down a dark hallway and hearing the motion sensor beeps getting closer and closer..I was the atmosphere of this game that made it a blast to play, It just so happens to have a space marine in it.
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post #58 of 88
10/1/08 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Again, I'm leaving AvP 1 and 2 out of this. They were great. Thing is, even though the Predator side was easy, and lacking tension, it was a big heaping bowl of FUN. And it was a style of gameplay you so very rarely see done right, even these days.
wait, you go after me for wanting to leave these games off the list, and you come back saying you want them out of this? pretty much making the same points I did..well ok then! but I agree with you.
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post #59 of 88
10/1/08 at 5:54pm
I'm starting to feel the fatigue as well but I'll still play that new Aliens game to death. Franchise affection as mentioned before.

Justin your avatar is making me laugh so hard. Hope the new game rocks.
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post #60 of 88
10/1/08 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bees?! View Post
Worse than Turok? Haze?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MV6ztPF4OE
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post #61 of 88
10/1/08 at 7:37pm
The visuals look better than Haze. The deformation looks less fun than Red Faction 1's. How odd.
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post #62 of 88
10/1/08 at 8:23pm
Quote:
wait, you go after me for wanting to leave these games off the list, and you come back saying you want them out of this? pretty much making the same points I did..well ok then! but I agree with you.
Aliens by Gearbox is seemingly all about shooting aliens at LV426. AVP2 allowed you to play as both alien and predator races, dramatically shaking up the game play. It's not that games can't do Space Marines, they just need to do them very well and justify their existence.

Aliens is a pretty frustrating case considering that anybody I know wants AVP3 before a movie based Aliens game.
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post #63 of 88
10/1/08 at 10:33pm
Seriously, why are Space Marines always so BALD?
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post #64 of 88
10/1/08 at 10:55pm
Mass Effect, Mass Effect, Mass Effect.
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post #65 of 88
10/2/08 at 12:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Mass Effect, Mass Effect, Mass Effect.
Exception to the rule. The scale and quality of that game's plot dwarfs the fact that you're controlling another goddamned space marine.
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post #66 of 88
10/2/08 at 12:21am
But every possible avatar has short hair.
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post #67 of 88
10/2/08 at 12:32am
Yea, that definitely sucks. I want to be able to play as "Hippie Faggot 1" too.
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post #68 of 88
10/2/08 at 12:40am
Magic Carpet was absolutely fantastic. I see the underlying point that Magic Carpet would most likely never get released on a console in todays console market (or it would come out on the Wii, and suck). The PC is naturally a better platform for complex, in-depth gaming.
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post #69 of 88
10/2/08 at 12:44am
I know this is gonna sound stupid, but I still hate playing FPS games on a console. I was raised on the mouse and keyboard, so it's kind of second nature (hell, I was playing Magic Carpet when I was 7, even though I never got very far. But it looked pretty at the time.) Sure, I can play and do alright with a controller, but not as well as I'd do on a PC. Maybe I'm old school...

I prefer to play third person/fighting games on a console though.
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post #70 of 88
10/2/08 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
Aliens by Gearbox is seemingly all about shooting aliens at LV426. AVP2 allowed you to play as both alien and predator races, dramatically shaking up the game play. It's not that games can't do Space Marines, they just need to do them very well and justify their existence.

Aliens is a pretty frustrating case considering that anybody I know wants AVP3 before a movie based Aliens game.
AvP2 didn't do anything AvP1 hadn't done before.

Gearbox's Aliens hasn't got the gimmick of it being a comic tie-in anymore, it's got the movie to fall back on - meaning the crossover nature of the titles is gone, you've got to do something more than just line up Aliens and shoot them or you've got a failure of a title.

I'd even argue AvP2's attempts at storyline were so faithful to the comics that it became trashy and distracted from some occasionally wonderful gameplay mechanics - combined with me still standing by the fact the original AvP game did hit detection better, giger-esque level design and a less cartoony feel, which I think pulled me out of the second one slightly.

You don't know me, but i'm all for an Aliens title over AvP3 anyday. It'd only be given to a poor choice of studio this generation anyway, just like the strategy game was.
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post #71 of 88
10/2/08 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Exception to the rule. The scale and quality of that game's plot dwarfs the fact that you're controlling another goddamned space marine.
You know, and AvP. And AvP2.

Fuck it, i'll put it out there. Space Hulk waaay back was an excellent "Space Marine" game.

Enemy Unknown. XCOM. Dawn of War.

It's not the genre's fault that "Space Marine" is a genre - its the fact its such an easy fallback. A "readymade universe" where the military operate in *shock horror* - Space!

I'm standing by this, because people are making too many "exceptions to the rule" for this to be a clear-cut case - the premise of a game doesn't matter if the game is fun. Overall, that's all that matters.

If we're really going to nitpick - the ratio of bad sports games to good ones - in Soccer/Football alone is worse than the FPS's in regards to Space Marines & Non Space marines stuff.
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post #72 of 88
10/2/08 at 2:07pm
Gears of War is made of shit.

Is Fracture that "Halo with a gravity twist" game I read about on CHUD a while back, or am I thinking of some other piece of impending space marine dumbass?

In addition to WWII properties, the middle east has also worn out its welcome. Both Space AND non-Space Marines need to fuck off.
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post #73 of 88
10/2/08 at 2:18pm
Thread Starter 
All the examples being given as exceptions are at least a good 10 years old. Also, most of the exceptions, unsurprisingly, are PC titles, from when they were way ahead of the curve in the console/PC wars, where they'd been trying to build off of Doom since 1993. The flood of space marine based titles on consoles these days are a direct result of Halo's success, and the formula has become a foundation for far too many titles trying to achieve that level of saturation and popularity for this not be an issue. While, yes, 2007 saw a bunch of innovative titles see mainstream and critical success, it hasn't stemmed the tide. This lazy ass archetype is still being regurgitated several times over, and there's not a whole lot that's new being brought to the table to justify spending time, money, resources, and ultimately $60 a pop on every one of them just because it's pretty and it's got decent co-op. IT'S BEEN DONE. What else is the game bringing to the table to separate itself from the rest of the clones? All the new fancy weapons in the world don't mean shit when the reason behind using them is such an intellectual cockbite. I'm not about to reward studios for that.
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post #74 of 88
10/2/08 at 2:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsky View Post
In addition to WWII properties, the middle east has also worn out its welcome. Both Space AND non-Space Marines need to fuck off.
And, again, this is where I bring up Call Of Duty 4, a game that I avoided like fucking herpes when it came out. But despite its setting, it does several things its contemporaries didn't: It shows a great deal of forethought into its storytelling, its character development, and its social conscience, and all of those things are tied right into the core gameplay. Moreover, it flat out flips the bird at the typical stereotypes of these games, and makes the hard-ass "no questions" soldiers of these games the ones who MAJORLY screw the pooch. THAT'S the kind of experience these games should be aiming for, but the vast sad majority are content to settle with mediocrity, and another "which gravelly voiced hardass says the coolest quip while holding a fucking shotgun" contest. This cannot stand.
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post #75 of 88
10/2/08 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
I know this is gonna sound stupid, but I still hate playing FPS games on a console. I was raised on the mouse and keyboard, so it's kind of second nature (hell, I was playing Magic Carpet when I was 7, even though I never got very far. But it looked pretty at the time.) Sure, I can play and do alright with a controller, but not as well as I'd do on a PC. Maybe I'm old school...

I prefer to play third person/fighting games on a console though.
I agree, I just can't play FPS on a console, I'm amazed at the talent that some people have with the controllers but give me a mouse and keyboard any day.

3rd person and fighting games, even some flight combat sims are best left on a console, unless your talking about the X-Wing or Tie Fighter games, those rocked out.
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post #76 of 88
10/2/08 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
And, again, this is where I bring up Call Of Duty 4, a game that I avoided like fucking herpes when it came out. But despite its setting, it does several things its contemporaries didn't: It shows a great deal of forethought into its storytelling, its character development, and its social conscience, and all of those things are tied right into the core gameplay. Moreover, it flat out flips the bird at the typical stereotypes of these games, and makes the hard-ass "no questions" soldiers of these games the ones who MAJORLY screw the pooch. THAT'S the kind of experience these games should be aiming for, but the vast sad majority are content to settle with mediocrity, and another "which gravelly voiced hardass says the coolest quip while holding a fucking shotgun" contest. This cannot stand.
See, I'm one of the few who wasn't even all that impressed with COD4. When it deviated from formula it was fun - I'm thinking about the helicopter night assault, chernobyl sniper, and the nuke blast missions, specifically - but as an overall experience, there was way too much "flashbang, clear room, move to next target." After a while, it's just exhausting and not much fun. The character twists and convetion breaking were nice, but they weren't enough to make COD4 the kind of revolutionary FPS experience that everyone hyped it as.
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post #77 of 88
10/2/08 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
And, again, this is where I bring up Call Of Duty 4, a game that I avoided like fucking herpes when it came out. But despite its setting, it does several things its contemporaries didn't: It shows a great deal of forethought into its storytelling, its character development, and its social conscience, and all of those things are tied right into the core gameplay. Moreover, it flat out flips the bird at the typical stereotypes of these games, and makes the hard-ass "no questions" soldiers of these games the ones who MAJORLY screw the pooch. THAT'S the kind of experience these games should be aiming for, but the vast sad majority are content to settle with mediocrity, and another "which gravelly voiced hardass says the coolest quip while holding a fucking shotgun" contest. This cannot stand.
Whilst I agree - very valid points, I feel most people forget, or fail to realise - the British squad in this game was also majorly stereotyped too.

I think you were intentionally meant to care more for the squad that survives, so they were made slightly less generic and got more character development. I mean, sure - it was still minimal, but even in gunfights there were things said that helped you identify your British squad far easier than the American taskforce.

It did help slightly that the amazing game engine was rolled on the thighs of virgins.

Male virgins, probably. But still.
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post #78 of 88
10/2/08 at 4:12pm
I really need to give Call of Duty 4 a chance, I got to the level just after the 'token black guy' of the American squad was playing Rap music over the Iraqi radio and I just couldn't muster much enthusiasm for the game as a whole.
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post #79 of 88
10/2/08 at 4:16pm
In fairness Spike, it's equal in its stereotyping of all races.
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post #80 of 88
10/2/08 at 4:17pm
"I keep this for close encounters" + Comedy British Team = Spike becoming almost enraged by the games first proper level.
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post #81 of 88
10/2/08 at 4:21pm
I felt exactly the same way about them stealing Aliens dialogue literally off the page.

By the end of the game I was genuinely attached to the whole bunch of them. You go through a whole lot of shit together, it's bizarre how they did it.
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post #82 of 88
10/2/08 at 4:23pm
You know what we need? A game called "Space Marines." Have Tim Schafer produce it. Just make it a ridiculous surreal hodge podge of every genre cliche imaginable.

Even Justin Clark would buy it.
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post #83 of 88
10/2/08 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
You know what we need? A game called "Space Marines." Have Tim Schafer produce it. Just make it a ridiculous surreal hodge podge of every genre cliche imaginable.

Even Justin Clark would buy it.
They did that to the fantasy genre with 2004's The Bard's Tale. Did anybody play that game?
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post #84 of 88
10/2/08 at 4:29pm
Haha, I remember Bard's Tale. I didn't particularly like the mechanics, but the humour was great.
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post #85 of 88
10/2/08 at 5:17pm
Im currently playing "Warhammer 40000 Dawn of war" and Im loving it!
Sure, theres a surplus of space marines in fps games these days, but every once in a while we may see a game that actually does something good with the formula.
Hell, maybe Rockstar will turn those space marines cartoons from GTAIV in a game...
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post #86 of 88
10/2/08 at 7:17pm
Buncha WATBs in this thread if you ask me.
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post #87 of 88
10/2/08 at 11:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
You know what we need? A game called "Space Marines." Have Tim Schafer produce it. Just make it a ridiculous surreal hodge podge of every genre cliche imaginable.

Even Justin Clark would buy it.
You had me at Tim Schafer.
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post #88 of 88
10/2/08 at 11:56pm
Well, Tim is essentially doing Too Human with Brutal Legend, in that he's doing Norse creation mythology in a good way instead of bad.
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