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Drugs - Page 2

post #51 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I also like the assertion that to appreciate films like Aliens you really need to be wasted. Way to lower the artistic merits of your favoured films guys.
I completely don't understand that either. If there's a film that I love, or I'm going to see for the first time, I never try to heighten that experience via chemical enhancement. It takes away from the intentions of the film maker and the film itself. At least that's how I feel about it.

EDIT: Alright. I have to take that back for one specific instance. When I saw Speed Racer in the theater I was on acid. But... it was worth it. And I went back and saw it a week later sober. Still enjoyed it.
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post #52 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cordo View Post
I completely don't understand that either. If there's a film that I love, or I'm going to see for the first time, I never try to heighten that experience via chemical enhancement. It takes away from the intentions of the film maker and the film itself. At least that's how I feel about it.
Exactly, it's almost insulting to the film itself. And invariably what people are going to get from the film are their own bullshit little thoughts twisting the narrative, more than the film itself being enhanced.
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post #53 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Exactly, it's almost insulting to the film itself.
But it's MY experience, which to me is 1000 times more important than the filmmaker's feelings.

It makes shitty movies more fun, and if the film's great, it's not going to be the only time I've seen it. But it's not a rule that I have to be high to watch a movie. It's a fun way to rediscover a movie sometimes.
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post #54 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:40pm
However I do tend to watch The Royal Tenenbaums when I'm drunk. I'm a sad person like that.
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post #55 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
Coke is extremely overrated.
I was responding to Patrick's comment about needing coke to enjoy Aliens. I do think Patrick could benefit from trying pretty much any drug though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I also like the assertion that to appreciate films like Aliens you really need to be wasted. Way to lower the artistic merits of your favoured films guys.
It's less about appreciating a particular movie, and more about being able to open your mind. You seem to start threads where you talk about not finding something funny or can't understand why people find them interesting and I think its because you can't separate the film's world from your own reality. I'm not advocating that you need to use drugs to enjoy a film. The film should stand on its own. But doing drugs allows you see things outside of your own personal perspective, and often times this ability extends well past the particular drug experience. I find I can appreciate things I might not have been able to relate to previously in my life because I've experienced this other world view. Sounds hokey, I know, but its true.
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post #56 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I was responding to Patrick's comment about needing coke to enjoy Aliens. I do think Patrick could benefit from trying pretty much any drug though.
Because Drugs make you a much better person. One of the cliches I hate the most is the idea that people who don't smoke are uptight and it goes back to what I was saying about being a square. You guys might think I'm uncool, but I genuinely find most people who abuse drugs (ie take stuff most days) to be pretty pathetic.
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post #57 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I do think Patrick could benefit from trying pretty much any drug though.
I call for a good, healthy heroin addiction. All in favor?
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post #58 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
most people who abuse drugs (ie take stuff most days) to be pretty pathetic.
I don't think anyone here abuses drugs. Tripping once/twice a year and smoking pot occasionally isn't drug abuse.
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post #59 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:50pm
Almost none of my friends touch anything. I don't judge them for it and (as far as I know) they don't judge me. What we don't do is discuss the merits of trying/using the drug, because they don't have the experiential information to take part in that discussion.
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post #60 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Because Drugs make you a much better person. One of the cliches I hate the most is the idea that people who don't smoke are uptight and it goes back to what I was saying about being a square. You guys might think I'm uncool, but I genuinely find most people who abuse drugs (ie take stuff most days) to be pretty pathetic.
I don't think you're uptight and uncool because you don't take drugs.
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post #61 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:54pm
I know two guys who smoke pot daily. One has absolutely no standards. He'll laugh at anything, think any movie or song is cool and generally causes awkward silences around me because every time he tries to say something funny I go "Hheeehh?? I guess?".

The other guy likes Naruto.
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post #62 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:55pm
My girlfriend smokes pot almost every day. But I don't complain because it makes her want sex.
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post #63 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:56pm
Also: that scene at the end of Two Towers where Frodo is under the Ring's spell and tries to give it to one of the Nazgûl and everything goes quiet except for the beating of the dragon's wings until Faramir shoots it? INTENSE.

edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cordo
My girlfriend smokes pot almost every day. But I don't complain because it makes her want sex.
Hah, mine too!
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post #64 of 308
10/5/08 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
But it's MY experience, which to me is 1000 times more important than the filmmaker's feelings.

It makes shitty movies more fun, and if the film's great, it's not going to be the only time I've seen it. But it's not a rule that I have to be high to watch a movie. It's a fun way to rediscover a movie sometimes.
Correct answer. I see no difference between taking acid then watching 2001 and watching Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind after a breakup. There's a give and take between the art and the audience there, where each gains and loses things based on mindset and current experience. I don't see anything wrong with that kind of curiosity.

But, same time, I wouldn't give anybody shit for wanting to stay pure for whatever reason.
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post #65 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:01pm
If it's the first time I see a movie, I try to watch it sober though.
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post #66 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Because Drugs make you a much better person. One of the cliches I hate the most is the idea that people who don't smoke are uptight and it goes back to what I was saying about being a square. You guys might think I'm uncool, but I genuinely find most people who abuse drugs (ie take stuff most days) to be pretty pathetic.
Again its that all or nothing attitude. People who "abuse" drugs... LOL.

In any case, I'm not calling you uptight. As Phil said, its more about not having that experiential information. I don't want to use the world "enlightened" because that doesn't really get at the experience, but you do come away from using any kind of drugs with another way of experiencing the world that I think would be beneficial to all people to try at least once.
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post #67 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:04pm
So in terms of 'enlightenment' what's the difference between smoking something and getting halfway through a bottle of Jack Daniels?
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post #68 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I don't want to use the world "enlightened" because that doesn't really get at the experience, but you do come away from using any kind of drugs with another way of experiencing the world that I think would be beneficial to all people to try at least once.
In a way I agree with you. There was a time when I was dead-set on trying everything, just to have tried it.

Where do you draw the line though? When it's something that is ludicrously addictive? Something that can kill you/cause an overdose on your first use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
So in terms of 'enlightenment' what's the difference between smoking something and getting halfway through a bottle of Jack Daniels?
Getting shitfaced drunk and getting stoned out of your mind are nothing at all alike though.
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post #69 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:07pm
While weed and alcohol will both make you a little slower, weed makes you more sensitive to the world around you while alcohol makes you less.

And is it me or is it Spike and Patrick vs the boards day or what?
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post #70 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
So in terms of 'enlightenment' what's the difference between smoking something and getting halfway through a bottle of Jack Daniels?
1. No hangover, no matter how much you smoke.
2. You can still operate a vehicle.
3. It makes the mundane more fun. I used to smoke on my breaks when I worked at the grocery store, and I don't think I could have survived if I didn't.
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post #71 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
1. No hangover, no matter how much you smoke.
2. You can still operate a vehicle.
3. It makes the mundane more fun. I used to smoke on my breaks when I worked at the grocery store, and I don't think I could have survived if I didn't.
I'd contest points 2 and 3. I've seen barely able to navigate through a house after a heavy session and booze can make things fun.
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post #72 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I'd contest points 2 and 3. I've seen barely able to navigate through a house after a heavy session and booze can make things fun.
I have a bit of a tolerance to weed, so it doesn't effect me like it used to, but my four years in high school were mostly spent crusin' around the back roads of Jackson, NJ, and I never had any problems operating a vehicle. In fact, I concentrated even more, and it was actually fun to drive.

And I couldn't drink and then go to work, but I can smoke and go to work and enjoy it.
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post #73 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
1. No hangover, no matter how much you smoke.
Well there is a hangover, but it's a different beast. You just end up being slightly "slow".
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
2. You can still operate a vehicle.
This is kind of true, but not recommended for "new" smokers, who can often be totally out of it. It can still be dangerous in general though.
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post #74 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
So in terms of 'enlightenment' what's the difference between smoking something and getting halfway through a bottle of Jack Daniels?
Certain drugs, when taken under the right circumstances, can give you a perspective on reality that you cannot achieve otherwise. Sometimes this can be beneficial. I wouldn't so much call it enlightenment because it is entirely in the hands of the user as to what they get out of it. Kind of like college.
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post #75 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
Well there is a hangover, but it's a different beast.
True, the burnout can suck, but it never really lasts for more than 30 minutes and a cup of coffee usually cures it up.
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post #76 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:17pm
For various reasons working in concert, I've never done any sort of illegal drug.

I don't think it's a big deal or that it's an experience I require to be a complete human being. I also don't think it suggests anything negative or positive about me. It's just a fact.
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post #77 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
In a way I agree with you. There was a time when I was dead-set on trying everything, just to have tried it.

Where do you draw the line though? When it's something that is ludicrously addictive? Something that can kill you/cause an overdose on your first use?
I'm not advocating trying everything. I'm advocating trying at least one thing.

I don't know, part of growing up is discovering who you are, what you like/dislike, trying new things. If you are past college age and haven't tried alcohol, pot, or sex...I don't know, I just find that weird. It says to me that you take life at face value and aren't willing to experience things different from life as you know it. If you try pot and don't like it, cool. No one is saying you have to be a drug addict to enjoy life. But not having tried anything... I don't know, that sends a red flag to me. I don't know, I just find that lack of curiosity puzzling.

*Edited for clarity
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post #78 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:22pm
Thread Starter 
As for myself, who finds operating a vehicle clumsy even when sober...

My first Salvia experience made me lose perception of my body and worldly surroundings and trivial details (like the smoking of the actual salvia)...making me a bit less afraid of death. It was almost experiencing nothingness, but it wasn't scary except for a moment when I was sobering up and it was the coming to that felt crazy.

When I hear someone relating all drug use to "abuse" it's like they're lacking some connection to the rest of humanity. Like an autistic person. They have more trouble than otherwise to put themselves in other shoes in general.
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post #79 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
But not having tried anything... I don't know, that sends a red flag to me.
I see what you're saying. I've met plenty of weird/crazy people who didn't need drugs to be that way. Like the Asian kid my friend was roommates with who never came out of his room, lived on Ramen, and only played Warcraft 3 (probably worse for you than abusing drugs). We gave him a beer once. He walked into a wall, then passed out 20 minutes later. It is a little off putting when you meet someone who's lived 20 or so years and hasn't had a girlfriend, hasn't drank a shot, and hasn't smoked pot.

Weird kid.
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post #80 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
As for myself, who finds operating a vehicle clumsy even when sober...

My first Salvia experience made me lose perception of my body and worldly surroundings and trivial details (like the smoking of the actual salvia)...making me a bit less afraid of death. It was almost experiencing nothingness, but it wasn't scary except for a moment when I was sobering up and it was the coming to that felt crazy.

When I hear someone relating all drug use to "abuse" it's like they're lacking some connection to the rest of humanity. Like an autistic person. They have more trouble than otherwise to put themselves in other shoes in general.
I did have a caveat on my drug abuse thing. I don't know drug use seems kind of alien to me, because I was brought up with a very clinical awareness of what drugs do to you. My mother used to work as a Drugs Education officer for the council and so I spent a lot of my formative years surrounded by pamphlets and at seminars about drug use. Sort of took the mystique away I suppose.
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post #81 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:32pm
Thread Starter 
Ah shit, that's like reading medical guides before intercourse...

Also, Charlton Heston is hilarious when you're high. There's a bit in the beginning of Touch of Evil that I don't want to spoil...
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post #82 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:33pm
Pamphlets and seminars are meant to deter. If people were told objectively what certain drugs do, you'd find that many are quite harmless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
Ah shit, that's like reading medical guides before intercourse...
Hilarious
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post #83 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
because I was brought up with a very clinical awareness of what drugs do to you.
While some people are certainly really stupid when it comes to their drug use and what they mix, most people I've met are actually pretty smart about it. Anytime I'm trying something new, I do the research to learn of side effects, what to watch out for, etc. When I Robo-Tripped for the first time I started to get a bumpy rash on my arm, which I knew was a possible allergic reaction side effect, so I had my antihistamines with me. The only reason I knew about it was because I read about it beforehand. It's called being an educated drug user.

Erowid is a great reference.
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post #84 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:35pm
I don't know how anyone can make it to adulthood with the idea that any one specific avenue of "enlightenment" is an essential means to becoming a intelligent, complete, or trustworthy human being.

I smoked pot plenty in college, did acid, mushrooms, a few other things. While I enjoyed most of these experiences, I'd be lying if I said I found them more eye-opening than a lot of books I've read, classes I've taken, movies I've watched, or conversations I've had.

If you come out of a drug experience with the perspective that you truly achieved some sort of awareness heightening rather than simply an altering of the senses (an important distinction), you've simply bought into what your brain was telling you while you were under the drug's effects and haven't gained any knowledge at all. My senses have been altered by a bad case of insomnia and a bad flu - I don't think I gained any valuable insight through the experience. While my experiences with acid were far more enjoyable, I can't say I gained any there, either. I just had an interesting time.
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post #85 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:39pm
Well I did say enlightened is the wrong word. It's not about getting a better sense of the world, just a different one. And yes, you can have that sort of experience without drugs, but as the world is inherently social, the type of experiences I'm describing involve being able to relate better to others around you.
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post #86 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:41pm
How does closing yourself into your own mind help in relating to others?
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post #87 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
How does closing yourself into your own mind help in relating to others?
Again, a complete misunderstanding of drugs. There are many types of drugs that enhance your ability to connect with people both mentally and physically.
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post #88 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
How does closing yourself into your own mind help in relating to others?
Have you ever meditated?
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post #89 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:43pm
Thread Starter 
And, well, you're not going to not be able to not feel your body otherwise, unless you're dead. Or see the pink triceratops, which I was disappointed to learn doesn't exist...
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post #90 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott & Prospero View Post
Have you ever meditated?
Yeah, and I use mostly as a relaxation method and a way to (ugh) 'centre' myself. I'd hardly call it something which increases my relatability to the world.

And drugs are the ultimate in subjectivity because the effects are something that only you can really experience and truly comprehend.

One other annoyance about drug users, their weird sense of superiority.
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post #91 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
One other annoyance about drug users, their weird sense of superiority.
hahahahahahhahahaha
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post #92 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
And, well, you're not going to not be able to not feel your body otherwise, unless you're dead. Or see the pink triceratops, which I was disappointed to learn doesn't exist...
I'll give you the first one, but the second one is purely within the realm of the subconscious. I have insane fever dreams whenever I get a high temperature. Like hallucinations somewhere between being awake and asleep and I've encountered some pretty freaky things there.
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post #93 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Yeah, and I use mostly as a relaxation method and a way to (ugh) 'centre' myself. I'd hardly call it something which increases my relatability to the world.

And drugs are the ultimate in subjectivity because the effects are something that only you can really experience and truly comprehend.

One other annoyance about drug users, their weird sense of superiority.
It's not about superiority. You can't relate to it because you never experienced it. That's a fact. You imagine what it might be like, but you will never know unless you've experienced it.
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post #94 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
And yes, you can have that sort of experience without drugs, but as the world is inherently social, the type of experiences I'm describing involve being able to relate better to others around you.
I read a lot, speak a couple of languages other than English, make a living talking to others in depth about subjects that interest them, and have traveled a bit. How much more do I have to do before I get a pass on not getting high in my dorm with my white, middle class, American classmates when I was 19?
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post #95 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:48pm
Also, in terms of how drugs help people relate to others, see prescription drugs. There's a whole legal market dedicated to it.
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post #96 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
I read a lot, speak a couple of languages other than English, make a living talking to others in depth about subjects that interest them, and have traveled a bit. How much more do I have to do before I get a pass on not getting high in my dorm with my white, middle class, American classmates when I was 19?
You'll note that I said did not try alcohol, drugs, or sex. I assume you've done the others. And also that it merely raised a red flag. That doesn't preclude people being able to overcome my reservations for the very reasons you mentioned. You are a smart, sociable person whose willing to try new things and explore the world. My fear is people who close themselves off for fear of the unknown.
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post #97 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:51pm
Thread Starter 
But then again, Spike will have a bad time should he try any of these drugs now. In my little amount of experience and info gathered from the anecdotes of the more experienced, you need to respect the substance in order to get anything positive out of it. Even with weed, I know some like my own mother who thinks it's vile, after only one joint she ever smoked, because of that attitude.
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post #98 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:52pm
Why is everyone getting defensive over whether they have or haven't done drugs?
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post #99 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
But then again, Spike will have a bad time should he try any of these drugs now. In my little amount of experience and info gathered from the anecdotes of the more experienced, you need to respect the substance in order to get anything positive out of it. Even with weed, I know some like my own mother who thinks it's vile, after only one joint she ever smoked, because of that attitude.
Totally agree.
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post #100 of 308
10/5/08 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
You'll note that I said did not try alcohol, drugs, or sex. I assume you've done the others. And also that it raised a red flag. That doesn't preclude some people being able to overcome my reservations for the very reasons you mentioned. You are a smart, sociable person whose willing to try new things and explore the world. My fear is people who close themselves off for fear of the unknown.
That's one of the condescending posts I've ever read. And that's what I mean when I go on about the superior attitude drug users have.

Who gives a shit about the books you read, the people you talked to, the places you visited, your life experiences are hopelessly limited compared to some guy who smoked pot in college.
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