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Gladiator (2000)

post #1 of 67
10/5/08 at 3:10pm
Thread Starter 
One of my pieces of homework this weekend was to watch Gladiator (don't ask). I ended up watching the extended edition and whilst I still think the films a tad overlong I did find myself enjoying it a lot more than I remembered.

I think my issue with the plot is that it sort of loses steam as soon as Maximus has revealed himself to Commodus and by that point you've still got an hours worth of film to get through.

But the attention to detail in the film is staggering and when he's inside the arena Scott's action scenes are absolutely brilliant (the chariot battle is probably one of my favourite set pieces from this decade). I'm actually not as fond of the opening battle as I used to be, partially because all of the slow motion stuff started to really irritate me.

I love Crowe and Phoenix (even if the latter probably plays his villain a little too broad) and they really help to give an emotional core to a film that could easily get lost in its own pageantry.
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post #2 of 67
10/5/08 at 3:21pm
The extended version helps soothe any complaints I had about Commodus being too broad. His frustration with his neglected upbringing and him taking it out on anyone who crosses his path feel much more genuine.

I think I need to give this flick another spin. Possibly even today.
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post #3 of 67
10/5/08 at 3:23pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah Commodus is fleshed out a lot more, but he's still something of a brat more than a fully rounded out character. Phoenix does really well in making a quite inconsistent character seem really consistent.
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post #4 of 67
10/5/08 at 3:31pm
How much longer is the extended cut?

I loved this when it came out in theaters, but have enjoyed it less and less over the years, while Braveheart has had the opposite effect.

Didn't this win or get nominated for a "best editing" Oscar? I still think many of the action bits are a mess, although this could be due to cuts for violence.
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post #5 of 67
10/5/08 at 3:35pm
I love that this thing is basically a gladiatorsploitation (?) flick. The plot and characters are so basic you're just waiting for Maximus to do something cool in the arena or for Commodus to do something decadent outside it.

ETA: And how shitty is it that this got beaten by M:I-2 as the most succesfull film of 2000?
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post #6 of 67
10/5/08 at 3:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
How much longer is the extended cut?

I loved this when it came out in theaters, but have enjoyed it less and less over the years, while Braveheart has had the opposite effect.

Didn't this win or get nominated for a "best editing" Oscar? I still think many of the action bits are a mess, although this could be due to cuts for violence.
It's about 17 minutes longer and some of the action scenes do seem to be a bit more explicit, but they're still kind of overly edited at times. The only section where you can see what's going on is the chariot battle in the middle.
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post #7 of 67
10/5/08 at 4:01pm
Cool thanks. I'm not sure if it's worth me double-dipping, but I'll certainly have to check it out.

*edit- I mentioned this in another thread not so long ago, but it's amazing how much of the score for the first PotC is almost note for note the same as moments from Gladiator. It kind of hurts Gladiator's score as a result.
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post #8 of 67
10/5/08 at 4:05pm
Thread Starter 
Well the Gladiator score is essentially the Rock soundtrack with adding women wailing and Spanish guitar.
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post #9 of 67
10/5/08 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaybe Sapien View Post
ETA: And how shitty is it that this got beaten by M:I-2 as the most succesfull film of 2000?
Almost as shitty as the fact that The Grinch is actually the highest grossing film of 2000.
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post #10 of 67
10/5/08 at 4:47pm
So the extended is worth it? Damn it, Ridley Scott, get it right the first time for once, will ya?

One of my favorite movies of the decade. It's lost a little of its shine since I was 17, but it's a very strong piece nonetheless. The action seems tame, but it's expertly choreographed and none of the fights ever feel the same. A bit overedited, as said, but they're still powerful and visceral on a "get your blood going" level. Love, love Crowe in this. Don't know if he deserved to win Best Actor, if only because his work in 'A Beautiful Mind' was far superior (but that's hindsight talking).

One of my favorite scores, too. I adore the post-final battle elegy that's playing. Still gets me to this day.
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post #11 of 67
10/5/08 at 4:53pm
I've seen the extended cut used for around $10 in a few places. $10 for the extended flick, and that 3 1/2 hour documentary, there's no excuse NOT to own it.
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post #12 of 67
10/5/08 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
Almost as shitty as the fact that The Grinch is actually the highest grossing film of 2000.
OH SHIT SON

I got my info from Jonathan Ross' show back in 2000, so I guess it was UK numbers only.
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post #13 of 67
10/5/08 at 5:17pm
When the film hits blu I'll take another look at it. As a DVD, it had some of the best tech specs around, and the history buff at the time loved all the behind the scenes information. The DTS on it was amazing.

The film has lost that luster for me. It's not terrible by any means, but the pacing just loses me about half way and I'm a little bored by the end until the final fight.
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post #14 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I'm actually not as fond of the opening battle as I used to be, partially because all of the slow motion stuff started to really irritate me.
If you're talking about the choppy slow-motion that looked like it was created in post, I totally agree. That and the regret-tinged droning of Lisa Gerrard. Beautiful score, but I still don't know why the movie wanted me to care so much about the horrors of war during the first battle when the only character I gave a damn about was Maximum. And he was clearly winning and enjoying it!

I bought the theatrical cut and the extended cut, but this has never been a movie that I've been eager to actually revisit all that much aside from going to the coolest scenes to test out the DTS.

Clearly the movie that made people see what a star Russell Crowe was. When he won for this, he was winning for The Insider.

EDIT: I know you said not to ask, but I really want to know why you had to watch this movie for homework.
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post #15 of 67
10/6/08 at 5:45am
My favorite thing about Gladiator is that when Crowe dies, his armor is so bulky there has to be a little mound of dirt for his head to rest on. All the state-of-the-art effects in the movie and something like that gets through.

Also, wasn't there a telephone company commercial out about that time that looked exactly like Crowe's dream sequence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
EDIT: I know you said not to ask, but I really want to know why you had to watch this movie for homework.
Hopefully not for the history. The real Commodus was much more interesting.
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post #16 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
EDIT: I know you said not to ask, but I really want to know why you had to watch this movie for homework.
We've got to compare the filmmakers intent with actual source information from the time. I get to look at the depiction of Commodus in the film and how he was viewed by his contemporaries.
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post #17 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:27am
From what I know, the characterization of Commodus in the film is pretty dead on, even if the actual events are not. If anything, in real life, Commodus didn't have the excuse of severe daddy issues to account for his ego and bastardry.
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post #18 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:32am
One of my 1st DVDs, due to timing of its release. I love its bombast, bloodshed, and operatic scenery-chewing. I'm a sucker for epics, but Scott inspires a resurgence of Sword & Sandal here and then shows why he's better than his imitators again in 2005.
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post #19 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Well the Gladiator score is essentially the Rock soundtrack with adding women wailing and Spanish guitar.
This is so wrong my head hurts.

Lisa Gerrard is doing that type of singing since the early 80s, influencing a lot of other artists since then with Dead Can Dance. She's the soul of the soundtrack. Sure, the bombastic sounds of Zimmer are there, but what makes the score unique is Gerrard's voice. She mainstreamed her own style and since then there's a shitload of copycats that can't equal her.
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post #20 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:35am
As much as I enjoy this flick, am I the only one who's always so very distracted during the scene where Maximus finds his wife and kid by the snot bridge hanging out of Russell Crowe's nose?
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post #21 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:36am
I've been meaning to pick up the extended version of this for some time. Were these cuts made strictly for time (17 minutes) or for other reasons? Are these cuts addressed in the documentaries or commentaries?
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post #22 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
When he won for this, he was winning for The Insider.
Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. THE INSIDER I think is far and away his best performance.

Having said that, Crowe owns this movie. It's difficult to call it a truly great performance because I think much of it rests on the shoulders of Crowe's natural charisma and machismo, but nonetheless, without it the movie would be completely empty.

I really don't have any problems with it per se, except for, as was posted here, Ridley's over-excited editing, which not only hurt the flow of that first battle but took me out of it altogether (and does every time I watch it). My only issue is with anyone calling it a great epic. It's not. It's a beautifully made popcorn flick. At that level it succeeds triumphantly - stoic yet emotionally wounded hero, hissable villain, big battle scenes, over-wrought score, etc. At any deeper level, no.

Connie Nielsen's character is probably the most interesting in the movie.

ETA: The extended version also contains the theatrical version, so yeah, any fence-sitters should pick it up for sure.
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post #23 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
As much as I enjoy this flick, am I the only one who's always so very distracted during the scene where Maximus finds his wife and kid by the snot bridge hanging out of Russell Crowe's nose?
No you're not.

And while I love this movie, it's clearly the preparatory work for his masterpiece; Kingdom of Heaven. Of course, we're talking about the Director's Cut here. The fact that I can say this with Bloom leading this movie is testament to the quality of it. While unfitting for the role, imagine if Crowe would have starred in KoH.

Head= exploded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Banks is my hero View Post
Having said that, Crowe owns this movie. It's difficult to call it a truly great performance because I think much of it rests on the shoulders of Crowe's natural charisma and machismo, but nonetheless, without it the movie would be completely empty.
Yeah. Pretty much.
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post #24 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:41am
Commodus was a much more interesting historical figure than the film lets on. He liked to dress up as Hercules and kill spectators in the Colosseum.
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post #25 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
I've been meaning to pick up the extended version of this for some time. Were these cuts made strictly for time (17 minutes) or for other reasons? Are these cuts addressed in the documentaries or commentaries?
I don't think the extended cut is a director's cut in any way. The cut we got in theaters was Scott's intended film. The extended cut is just that. It reincorporates deleted scenes that were found on the first 2 disc DVD of the film. So this was no Kingdom of Heaven, I don't think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #26 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsky View Post
Commodus was a much more interesting historical figure than the film lets on. He liked to dress up as Hercules and kill spectators in the Colosseum.
So he was kind of an early monster truck?

And yep, the real Commodus was completely wacked. I love the fact that he filled the Coliseum with water to recreate naval battle...
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post #27 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:51am
Still love Gladiator. it's one of those films I can just watch over and over.

Bloom doesn't kill KoH for me, but he certainly cripples it. Ridley wanted Paul Bettany, but the studio forced Bloom on him. Apparently, they thought Bloom was a movie star or something. Regardless, it's the opposite of Russell Crowe in Gladiator. That's a hell of a star turn.

I really like the supporting cast here too. Oliver Reed and Richard Harris both turn practically every line into a grace note.
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post #28 of 67
10/6/08 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
I don't think the extended cut is a director's cut in any way. The cut we got in theaters was Scott's intended film. The extended cut is just that. It reincorporates deleted scenes that were found on the first 2 disc DVD of the film. So this was no Kingdom of Heaven, I don't think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah, Scott says something to that effect before the film starts.

The extended edition is still my preferred cut, though.
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post #29 of 67
10/6/08 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
I really like the supporting cast here too. Oliver Reed and Richard Harris both turn practically every line into a grace note.
Again, though, note the surprisingly old-school gaffe where Harris's "corpse" is obviously breathing.
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post #30 of 67
10/6/08 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Again, though, note the surprisingly old-school gaffe where Harris's "corpse" is obviously breathing.
They were afraid to make him hold his breath for too long.
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post #31 of 67
10/6/08 at 2:25pm
No no... Harris' body is so tough, it keeps running even when he's dead. He had been dead for 5 years when he did Gladiator, actually.

Quote:
"I did not say I knew him, I said he touched me on the shoulder once!!!"
I love Reed's delivery of that line.
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post #32 of 67
10/6/08 at 2:41pm
The shoot must have produced some legendary games of Who's More Grizzled? on set. Not sure if Reed won or lost.
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post #33 of 67
10/6/08 at 2:45pm
Thread Starter 
Scott does an introduction to the film which is pretty non-commitall. He essentially says this is just an extended cut and the theatrical cut is his director's cut. And my comments about the score were aimed more at Zimmer than Gerrard (who I've loved since her Dead Can Dance days).

And the real Commodus seems pretty awesome. I've just got to his chapter in the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and what I'm finding impressive is that Phoenix's anachronistic performance really captures the spirit of Commodus if not the factuality.

Also, now that I know which scene is digitally reversed Reed I can't help but notice it.
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post #34 of 67
10/6/08 at 2:54pm
I think that Gladiator is the best film directed by Ridley Scott, as well as Russell Crowe's great performance which earned him a well deserved...Best Actor oscar. Also, just because the Pirates of The Caribbean films mimic the score of Gladiator, it doesn't in any way lessen the greatnes of Hans Zimmer's music.
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post #35 of 67
10/6/08 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Banks is my hero View Post
The shoot must have produced some legendary games of Who's More Grizzled? on set. Not sure if Reed won or lost.
Ultimately, I would say Reed won that game by forfeiting the game of Alive.
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post #36 of 67
10/6/08 at 3:09pm
This movie was one of two movies that year that featured a score by Hans Zimmer and Lisa Gerrard. Hearing Gerrard's voice during a mostly rock-influenced MI:2 score was really weird that year. I actually really like the MI2 score. Certainly listened to it a lot more than I did with the Gladiator score, which I also listened to quite a bit.
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post #37 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:03pm
This is a film I found quoting a lot and using as titles for various papers and stories. Thinking of Scott's films, Gladiator possesses one of my two favorite exchanges of dialogue in any of his movies:

"I knew a man once who said death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."
"I wonder, did your friend smile at his own death?"
"You must know...he was your father."

The way Crowe and Phoenix deliver that is pure poisonous poetry. I revel in it.

Sold! Picking up the "Extended Edition" as soon as possible!
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post #38 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:16pm
Best part of the film? The double punch during the final fight. You know what I'm talking about.
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post #39 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:18pm
Double limp-fist!! It looked more like two bitchslaps. Ridley Scott's sound designers thought otherwise...
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post #40 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:24pm
I'm still a huge fan of that ad-libbed description of Maximus' farm. Pretty much made me love Maximus/Crowe instantly.
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post #41 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:29pm
That was ad-libbed? Awesome.
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post #42 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:31pm
Is that where he talks about his son and tells you what he does to is wife is none of our damned business?

If so... NICE.
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post #43 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:34pm
Not that one, though I do love that moment. Just the right amount of brevity.

It's the one earlier, where Marcus Aurelius asks him about his home ("The soil, Marcus....black. Like my wife's hair.")
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post #44 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
My favorite thing about Gladiator Hopefully not for the history. The real Commodus was much more interesting.
How about a paper on Caligula, that! would be fun...
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post #45 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
am I the only one who's always so very distracted during the scene where Maximus finds his wife and kid by the snot bridge hanging out of Russell Crowe's nose?
No, you're not alone. I think it's a nice piece of 'gritty' detail that actually ends up taking too much of my attention away. Instead of being completely drawn in, I end up thinking, "Wow, that snotdrool is a nice touch! Makes him seem even sadder! Whoa, the snot is stuck to the foot too now! Gross!!!"

It doesn't ruin the scene as it's still effective, but it'd probably be better for me if the snot wasn't there.
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post #46 of 67
10/6/08 at 4:58pm
Thread Starter 
Do you guys get distracted in everyday life by shiny things?
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post #47 of 67
10/6/08 at 5:02pm
Well, if nothing else in the area is shiny... then yes. My eye will be drawn to the shiny thing.

Movies and everyday life though? Really different. Snot just isn't something I often see in movies during a dramatic scene.
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post #48 of 67
10/6/08 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
Movies and everyday life though? Really different. Snot just isn't something I often see in movies during a dramatic scene.
See: Thunder, Tropic for case and point.
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post #49 of 67
9/6/09 at 1:02am
Both Gladiator and Braveheart came out in Paramount's Sapphire Series (HAHAHAHAHAHA!) blu-rays this week.

I picked up Braveheart, as I think I prefer that film over Gladiator. That and the fact that Braveheart's extras were an actual upgrade for me while I have both releases of Gladiator on DVD.
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post #50 of 67
9/6/09 at 1:17am
Reading this thread made me more the angry about the botching of the blu ray. Guess I'll watch the DVD.
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