CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Political Discourse › Is anybody else extremely offended by all of this ACORN nonsense?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Is anybody else extremely offended by all of this ACORN nonsense?

post #1 of 140
10/12/08 at 12:13pm
Thread Starter 
Or is it just me?

Lets see, we have Indianapolis voter Registration at 105%.

We have the Dallas Cowboys registered to vote in Missouri.

We have ACORN representatives compensating individuals for registering more than once.

We have 4,000 dead people registered to vote in Houston.

This isnt mean to start a discussion of any Democrat or Republican candidate who one could see benefiting from these actions down the line in the form of additional votes, but rather discussing the potential ramifications of this bullshit and what we as a country can do to curb it. Lets also try not to hop in our delorean and travel back to 2004 or 2000 either.

I always looked at the voting process as one of the most sacred abilities we as citizens have and these retards are making a mockery of it.

Is it time to force all voters to provide some form of photo ID when they turn out to vote? I believe that Canada does require one or more forms of identification when someone shows up to cast their ballot.
Reply
post #2 of 140
10/12/08 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Is it time to force all voters to provide some form of photo ID when they turn out to vote?
Don't you think this is a lot scarier than the current level of bad registrations?
Reply
post #3 of 140
10/12/08 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Or is it just me?

Lets see, we have Indianapolis voter Registration at 105%.

We have the Dallas Cowboys registered to vote in Missouri.

We have ACORN representatives compensating individuals for registering more than once.

We have 4,000 dead people registered to vote in Houston.

This isnt mean to start a discussion of any Democrat or Republican candidate who one could see benefiting from these actions down the line in the form of additional votes, but rather discussing the potential ramifications of this bullshit and what we as a country can do to curb it. Lets also try not to hop in our delorean and travel back to 2004 or 2000 either.

I always looked at the voting process as one of the most sacred abilities we as citizens have and these retards are making a mockery of it.

Is it time to force all voters to provide some form of photo ID when they turn out to vote? I believe that Canada does require one or more forms of identification when someone shows up to cast their ballot.
ACORN folks are paid per hour, not per registration. Nice talking points, though. Why don't we bring back the poll tax while we're at it? Anything to keep "those people" from voting, right? Call me when the Dallas Cowboys show up to vote in Missouri.
Reply
post #4 of 140
10/12/08 at 12:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie-wanker View Post
ACORN folks are paid per hour, not per registration. Nice talking points, though. Why don't we bring back the poll tax while we're at it? Anything to keep "those people" from voting, right? Call me when the Dallas Cowboys show up to vote in Missouri.
Who was talking about the ACORN reps being paid? They were paying citizens to register multiple times.

Nice talking points, though.
Reply
post #5 of 140
10/12/08 at 12:57pm
Does dismissing a "talking point" with a talking point actually work? That seems like cheating.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch.
Reply
post #6 of 140
10/12/08 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Kimbell View Post
Don't you think this is a lot scarier than the current level of bad registrations?
Thats kinda why Im asking for suggestions.

On the one hand, we have to make sure that every voice is heard. On the other, we have to work hard to prevent this type of fraud.

Take a look at Canadas requirements:

Quote:
ONE IDENTITY CARDS WITH PHOTO :

- Health Card
- Drivers license Card
- Canadian passport
- Canadian Forces identity Card
- Public transportation Card
- Student ID Card

OR: TWO IDENTITY CARDS WITH NO PHOTO (2)

- Birth certificate
- Hospital cards
- Social insurance card
- Certificate of Canadian citizenship Card
- And a few others, too long to mention.

OR: TWO ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS (Containing Name And address)

- Credit card statement
- Bank Statement
- Local Property Tax assessment
- Government check with elector name
- Insurance policy
- Letter from Public Curator
- And others, too long to mention

OR: SWEAR AN OATH AND BE VOUCHED FOR BY AN ELECTOR WHO IS ON THE LIST IN THE SAME POLLING DIVISION AND WHO HAS AN ACCEPTABLE PIECE OF IDENTIFICATION WITH PHOTO. e.g.: A neighbour, your roomate.
Is this too much to ask?
Reply
post #7 of 140
10/12/08 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renn Brown View Post
Does dismissing a "talking point" with a talking point actually work? That seems like cheating.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch.
I quoted you just in time to see your edit.

Touche.
Reply
post #8 of 140
10/12/08 at 1:02pm
I did as much digging into ACORN as I could a couple weeks back, and I didn't like what I found. I guess, bigger fish to fry and all that... but still not cool.
Reply
post #9 of 140
10/12/08 at 1:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renn Brown View Post
I did as much digging into ACORN as I could a couple weeks back, and I didn't like what I found. I guess, bigger fish to fry and all that... but still not cool.
Well youre obviously a racist.
Reply
post #10 of 140
10/12/08 at 1:11pm
Electronic voting needs to be completely done away with, too.
Reply
post #11 of 140
10/12/08 at 1:21pm
I'm not freaked out by it. It's an organization with normal problems getting blown out of proportion by the McCain campaign in order to have something negative to attach to Obama.

Here's ACORN's statement in defense:
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/...its_troops.php

and here's a NY Times report on worse violations by states themselves, saying that "tens of thousands eligible voters in at least six swing states have been removed from the rolls or have been blocked from registering in ways that appear to violate federal election law."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27093919/

I also agree with this editorial:

Quote:
As with Missouri’s proposed amendment, the driving force behind strict voter ID requirements in general is not a genuine effort to prevent fraud, since there is virtually no evidence that in-person voter fraud is occurring. It is, rather, the Republican Party’s electoral calculations. Barriers at the polls drive down voter turnout, especially among the poor, racial minorities and students — groups that are less likely than average to have driver’s licenses, and that are more likely than average to vote Democratic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/opinion/13tue1.html

Is the 4,000 dead registered to vote in Houston linked to ACORN? Doing a quick Google search, I don't see it.
Reply
post #12 of 140
10/12/08 at 1:24pm
Well isn't calling out someone countering a 'talking points' argument with talking points just a talking point itself?

It's smells like FOX News in here.
Reply
post #13 of 140
10/12/08 at 1:27pm
My first impression after thinking for five minutes: this seems like an area well suited for letting each state decide its own system. They get to try out new things on a small scale, whether methods of identification or electronic voting or whatever. They get to require ID to the level their people are comfortable with. And with 50 unique elections, it's that much harder for either the federal government or any other group to rig the whole thing.

edit:
Quote:
I'm not freaked out by it. It's an organization with normal problems getting blown out of proportion by the McCain campaign in order to have something negative to attach to Obama.
Yes, that too. ACORN doesn't sound like anything worse than what every election has had before.
Reply
post #14 of 140
10/12/08 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
I believe that Canada does require one or more forms of identification when someone shows up to cast their ballot.
That, and a voter registration card. One can register at the polling station, too. But the parties aren't involved. Registration is overseen by a government department that just does its thing regardless of the party in power. Registration is as easy as putting one checkmark on my tax forms. It certainly isn't the circus you guys put up with.

Americans don't have to produce ID when they vote? And the parties have a hand in the mechanics of the process? No wonder it's such a mess.
Reply
post #15 of 140
10/12/08 at 2:03pm
Why can't registration be automatic for Governor, Senator, and Presidential races? If you get a license or a state ID than you should be able to vote anywhere in that state for statewide and national offices.

You only have to do the registration thing if you want to vote for congress, mayor, local ordinances, and state reps.

That would make sense since most people only care about President, Senator, and Governor anyways.
Reply
post #16 of 140
10/12/08 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Who was talking about the ACORN reps being paid? They were paying citizens to register multiple times.

Nice talking points, though.
I sincerely apologise, I misread this:

"We have ACORN representatives compensating individuals for registering more than once."

as

"We have ACORN representatives being compensated for registering individuals more than once."

and flew off the handle. I should be more careful. While this election business has me on edge and expecting the very worst, it's no excuse for not thinking before posting.

Back to driving nails into the baseball bat, just in case.
Reply
post #17 of 140
10/12/08 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
Americans don't have to produce ID when they vote?
No, that would be racist.
Reply
post #18 of 140
10/12/08 at 3:20pm
The problem with the whole ID thing, and I think this is the reason they haven't implemented it, is that the lines are usually long enough on voting day, but if they had to check two points of identification the lines would be almost ungodly*. Enough people don't vote already for a variety of reasons, adding that would just give even more people an excuse not to (and not only an excuse, it is on a weekday when many people have to work).

If they were to implement the checking of ID's, they'd have to extend the voting period. Giving people more than one day to vote would allow them to check ID's, give the voters more leniency in finding a time to vote, and would probably increase the amount of people who vote exponentially. It's kind of ridiculous to have 2 years of nothing but talk, debate and mudslinging, and then we only get one day to put in a vote.

*Not to mention, the people doing it would be volunteers, so lets make their job more difficult as well
Reply
post #19 of 140
10/12/08 at 4:25pm
Where do you not have to produce ID? My name is in a book, they check my ID against the book and then check off my name, and then I can vote.
Reply
post #20 of 140
10/12/08 at 4:26pm
I stand in line for an hour, then I give some old lady my name and address, they check my name off and that's it. Never been ID'd.
Reply
post #21 of 140
10/12/08 at 4:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
Americans don't have to produce ID when they vote? And the parties have a hand in the mechanics of the process? No wonder it's such a mess.
Apparently poor black folks dont have access to IDs.
Reply
post #22 of 140
10/12/08 at 4:37pm
Well, having a drivers license isn't a requirement to vote. And have you ever tried to get a state issued ID that wasn't a drivers license? It's a real pain in the ass.
Reply
post #23 of 140
10/12/08 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Apparently poor black folks dont have access to IDs.
Pretty much, you irritating ignorant hateful cocksucking useless piece of trash.
Reply
post #24 of 140
10/12/08 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
I stand in line for an hour, then I give some old lady my name and address, they check my name off and that's it. Never been ID'd.
I've never waited an hour to vote in my life. At most, there were three people ahead of me on any given year.

Also, I've never worked for a company that didn't let me take time off work to vote, either paid (salary) or unpaid. Hell, voting day usually means people slack off and come in late or take super long lunches and say they were polled or there were long lines etc.. just so they could take extra time off work.
Reply
post #25 of 140
10/12/08 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
I've never waited an hour to vote in my life. At most, there were three people ahead of me on any given year.
You obviously don't live in an overpopulated town in NJ that only has one spot where you can go to vote. And last time I went during my lunch break, and everyone else apparently had the same idea. I'm sure it's not as bad in the afternoon.

Quote:
Also, I've never worked for a company that didn't let me take time off work to vote, either paid (salary) or unpaid. Hell, voting day usually means people slack off and come in late or take super long lunches and say they were polled or there were long lines etc.. just so they could take extra time off work.
You have also obviously never worked retail.
Reply
post #26 of 140
10/12/08 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
You obviously don't live in an overpopulated town in NJ that only has one spot where you can go to vote. And last time I went during my lunch break, and everyone else apparently had the same idea. I'm sure it's not as bad in the afternoon.

You have also obviously never worked retail.
Nope, never lived in Jersey (resisting... Jersey... insult...) or worked retail. So, fair enough.
Reply
post #27 of 140
10/12/08 at 6:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Pretty much, you irritating ignorant hateful cocksucking useless piece of trash.
Im black, you overweight unsuccessful oxygen thief.
Reply
post #28 of 140
10/12/08 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Im black, you overweight unsuccessful oxygen thief.
That doesn't mean anything, honestly.
Reply
post #29 of 140
10/12/08 at 6:48pm
Thread Starter 
Provided we can avoid any further retardation on this thread...

How does the Canadian "two original pieces of mail" sound as proof in lieu of some form of photo ID?

Last I checked almost everyone has an electric bill to pay.

To an above point, it may increase wait times at voting booths slightly but it seems like a relatively small price to pay to maintain the integrity of the voting process.
Reply
post #30 of 140
10/12/08 at 6:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
That doesn't mean anything, honestly.
I could kinda see where he was going there as someone like him would tend to move the argument into that direction.
Reply
post #31 of 140
10/12/08 at 6:53pm
Quote:
How does the Canadian "two original pieces of mail" sound as proof in lieu of some form of photo ID?
You think it's that simple? If groups out there are going to put the effort into registering dead people to vote and compensating people to register twice, you don't think they could easily forge pieces of mail?

I'm pretty sure our electoral process has ALWAYS been corrupt, it's the nature of the beast.
Reply
post #32 of 140
10/12/08 at 6:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
You think it's that simple? If groups out there are going to put the effort into registering dead people to vote and compensating people to register twice, you don't think they could easily forge pieces of mail?
Im sure they could, but if requiring photo ID gets everybody up in a liberal guilt tizzy Im not sure what else we are left with.

Any ideas would definately be welcome.
Reply
post #33 of 140
10/12/08 at 6:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie-wanker View Post
I sincerely apologise, I misread this:

"We have ACORN representatives compensating individuals for registering more than once."

as

"We have ACORN representatives being compensated for registering individuals more than once."

and flew off the handle. I should be more careful. While this election business has me on edge and expecting the very worst, it's no excuse for not thinking before posting.

Back to driving nails into the baseball bat, just in case.

It happens to the best of us.

And that includes me.
Reply
post #34 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:00pm
In a situation where there's that many people that need to be ushered through, a fake ID would be all too easy to get away with.

Granted, it's just one more step a fraudulent voter would have to take, but a simple step none the less.

Like most issues/problems, to really be effective you have to tackle it at the root: make sure that people who are registering are real people.
Reply
post #35 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
In a situation where there's that many people that need to be ushered through, a fake ID would be all too easy to get away with.

Granted, it's just one more step a fraudulent voter would have to take, but a simple step none the less.
And if we require blood tests, someone will come up with some Gattaca like fingertip contraption.

The only other idea we can get from our friends up north is someone with a photo ID vouching for someone else and signing an oath.

That seems like the least desirable idea.
Reply
post #36 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:11pm
How about: Our elections are inherently corrupt, always have been (they just try to hide it better now), and there's no way to stop it so you mine as well accept it as part of the game.
Reply
post #37 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
How about: Our elections are inherently corrupt, always have been (they just try to hide it better now), and there's no way to stop it so you mine as well accept it as part of the game.
Worst possible solution?
Reply
post #38 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:15pm
I'm more offended by people being refused the right to vote than voter fraud.
Reply
post #39 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:17pm
We're a Country run by a bunch of modern day Sophists who will do anything to win, and that includes corrupting the vote. There's no simple solution to fix the problem without a complete overhaul of the way things have always been done.
Reply
post #40 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:21pm
Wouldn't giving up against the idea of voter corruption kinda take away the right to bitch about who wins?
Reply
post #41 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renn Brown View Post
Wouldn't giving up against the idea of voter corruption kinda take away the right to bitch about who wins?
Touche.
Reply
post #42 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Goldberg View Post
I'm more offended by people being refused the right to vote than voter fraud.
As am I, but it seems that the end result is the same.
Reply
post #43 of 140
10/12/08 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renn Brown View Post
Wouldn't giving up against the idea of voter corruption kinda take away the right to bitch about who wins?
As long as you vote, you get to bitch about who wins. Just because there are things beyond our control, that doesn't give us a right to apathy.
Reply
post #44 of 140
10/12/08 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Apparently poor black folks dont have access to IDs.
Well, there are people who don't have access to IDs, and there always will be.
Reply
post #45 of 140
10/12/08 at 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
Electronic voting needs to be completely done away with, too.
Say no to irrational fear of machines ...
Electronic voting machines are the solution
Reply
post #46 of 140
10/12/08 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
We're a Country run by a bunch of modern day Sophists who will do anything to win, and that includes corrupting the vote. There's no simple solution to fix the problem without a complete overhaul of the way things have always been done.
Everything needed for the overhaul of the election system is already outlined in the Carter/Ford + Carter/Baker commission. BTW, Carter/Baker recommends a voter ID system, so the report is not without controversy from both sides.
Reply
post #47 of 140
10/12/08 at 10:19pm
I say we make it so you need to know a secret word to vote. Also, instead of "I just voted" stickers people get scratcher cards and if they rub off who their voting for across the ballot and they win, they're entered into a drawing for a free trip for two to congress so they can personally gut check the douches who are being voted out.
Reply
post #48 of 140
10/12/08 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Pretty much, you irritating ignorant hateful cocksucking useless piece of trash.
Wow.
Reply
post #49 of 140
10/12/08 at 11:21pm
So who has the balls to put Devin in the troll thread?

I kid, kind of.
Reply
post #50 of 140
10/13/08 at 12:09am
Alleged voter fraud is just a maguffin used to commit egregious and criminal voter purges (look at the ratio between numbers of voters purged in swing states versus the number of voters who died or moved). This ACORN hysteria is a Republican-fueled sham because Republicans know that the fewer people voting, the higher their chances of winning.

ACORN flags every questionable registration form but is required by law to turn every form they receive into the elections dept.

Look what happened when an actual investigation of so-called voter fraud was conducted...
Quote:
As this story has unfolded these last few weeks, much has been made of my decision to not prosecute alleged voter fraud in New Mexico. Without the benefit of reviewing evidence gleaned from F.B.I. investigative reports, party officials in my state have said that I should have begun a prosecution. What the critics, who don’t have any experience as prosecutors, have asserted is reprehensible — namely that I should have proceeded without having proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The public has a right to believe that prosecution decisions are made on legal, not political, grounds.

What’s more, their narrative has largely ignored that I was one of just two United States attorneys in the country to create a voter-fraud task force in 2004. Mine was bipartisan, and it included state and local law enforcement and election officials.

After reviewing more than 100 complaints of voter fraud, I felt there was one possible case that should be prosecuted federally. I worked with the F.B.I. and the Justice Department’s public integrity section. As much as I wanted to prosecute the case, I could not overcome evidentiary problems. The Justice Department and the F.B.I. did not disagree with my decision in the end not to prosecute.
From former US Attorney David Yglesias, Why I Was Fired

The real crimes against democracy are election fraud and vote tampering.

The Closer, facts matter.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Political Discourse
CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Political Discourse › Is anybody else extremely offended by all of this ACORN nonsense?