When is the first attempt on Obama's life? - Page 2

What about a more cynical tactic -- assassinate McCain (making him a martyr, but unmissed among the fanatics) which elevates Palin to next to the throne?

Option C:

Nobody dies, nothing happens, the country continues pretty much as is, just with slight policy changes.

Whats the point in assassinating someone who's going to be dead from natural causes in a few years anyway?

We're choosing between two dead men for President. But look on the bright side, Americans aren't the only ones who are fucked if Palin becomes President...the world is.

Which side are assuming did the deed?

I was suggesting radical right elements would do it so:

1. McCain is more useful as a martyr than a losing, moderate right candidate.
2. It immediately puts the suspicion on the other side.
3. Palin is automatically elevated.
4. It let the outrage on the right express itself freely during the "time of grief".

While I think this is going a little far, I have been thinking that the apathy factor is probably something to consider. The last eight years have bred a certain class of far-right-wingers who talk some good crazy but would never, ever leave the safety of the internets. These are people who managed to rationalize that they were doing more for the country by defending the war in Iraq than actually joining the army.

I don't think anything like that would happen but maybe some PCP in his coffee making it look like he has dementia? I worry more about McCain than I do about Obama myself.

But what everyone siding with this argument keeps forgetting is that it just takes one person with a gun. That's all that you need.

How many southerners talked about killing Lincoln but never did it? Doesn't really matter how many didn't, because in the end one did.

It just takes one. Saying "Oh, there's a lot of bullshit fronting and apathy, so nothing will happen..." demonstrates a total misunderstanding of how these things work. They (typically) aren't acts of revolution, they're murders carried out by lone nuts.

I'm not demonstrating a misunderstanding of anything, sire - Lincoln's murder took place in a period in our history when there was much less to...for lack of a better way to put it...get pissed about - and when great and/or terrible things were much easier to accomplish. Nowadays, people get tugged in so many directions, you can't stay angry at one thing very long...and the thing you were worked up over awhile ago doesn't mean much after a fashion...

It's hard for me to say what I mean without going into overtime, as it were - but if there's an attempt on B's life - you're quite right - it won't come from White Power douchebags (who are too busy getting drunk and/or sexing each other down), or anyone with a political agenda (which at the very least would be - in some way - valid) - it'll come from someone who wants to impress Jodie Foster. If it's a nut with no agenda - well, that would be heartbreaking. But those who say they want a revolution (and fuck, I'm one of them) - are pretty much all talk.

It hurts that we live in a world where extra precautions need to be taken because of xenophobia - but those precautions will be in place. And the pathetic fucks in this country who think that "neegra" should die won't ever get a chance or grow the testes or the brainpower to try to circumvent those precautions. I think O will be safe.

Maybe I'm wrong. I'm the guy who wants to seriously drop napalm on these diwitted losers who riot and tear a city to pieces after their favorite sports team wins - but can't be bothered to destroy a corporate tower or a gated community. They can trash shit because the Bulls win, but the won't lift a finger when bullshit wins. People find the time to be passionate about tons of shit that doesn't matter - so maybe there is a bigoted asshole with a .50 caliber Barrett rifle and great aim and a desire to keep things "racially pure"...I just doubt it. People couldn't get worked up enough after eight years of nightmare to call for Dick Cheney's head - why would people suddenly care now?

I think Sir Paul has it right up there. This country will go on trundling along/circling the drain much as it has since the Reagan Blitz. Democrats are uesless. Republicans are useless. It's all just the powerful and the powerless and a slow, steady decline that Reagan started with the destruction of collective bargaining and Clinton finished with the passing of the North American Free Trade Agreement. Here's to hoping we're really electing change.

I don't think Obama would be reelected if nothing changed. If he wins by a large mandate which is a possibility, he will have to make some drastic changes or face losing his own voters to apathy. Or maybe I'm being overly optimistic. But I honestly think he does try to include Reagan and Clinton in his brand of change for a specific reason... to run against it.

You're right that if Bush couldn't even get an attempt, either the Secret Service is really great after Kennedy's death or the people are too ensconced in other things to do something that difficult. According to Snaieke's Rules, killing Bush would be a liberal nut job's #1 task. So if he didn't get one, who would?

Trying to kill a president in this day and age, with your CSI and Big Brother shit, has to be fucking challenging, right? So here's hoping John Malkovich doesn't try to whack BO.

I don't think so, really. You can still buy guns and you can still plan with your buddies in your basement. It may be harder to not get caught after the fact, but I can't imagine most assassins care about that.

Assassins believe that history will vindicate them and they'll be seen as heroes. Its all part of the crazy.

I've been worried about this since the moment Obama became a frontrunner, and I think it's bound to happen sooner or later. If he wanted to play it safe he would have picked a woman to be his VP, that way the nutjobs wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

Well, in fact, Booth had several co-conspirators, including Lewis Powell who tried to kill the Secretary of State at the same time. So it wasn't just a random nut, it was a carefully laid-out plan from a bunch of people with a political grudge (and who had been at war with Lincoln's government a few years before). It would be more appropriate to compare Booth to an Al-Qaeda or Taliban operative taking a shot at Bush.

Oswald was a lone nut (OR WAS HE?!?!?) but he was a highly trained lone nut. Most of the other attempts to assassinate US presidents in the 20th century have been laughable botch jobs. Before that, I'd argue, the amount of security surrounding the president wasn't as intense.

I don't want to downplay the danger of a freak with a gun, but I can't help thinking back to how some sectors of the population really, really hated the last two presidents, and no one even tried to take them out. Maybe all that bile-spewing on the internet helps people vent?

I think the difference here is the origin of the hate. A lot of people hated Clinton and thought he was a scumbag, but it was never some deep rooted racial/religious intolerance like what we're seeing here. There's a difference between hating a man because you don't like his political policies and because you think he's a liar and hating a man because he's black and you believe that he's muslim. The latter tend to have a lot more bile and come from a place full of ignorance and rage.

Bush, well, I don't have any real explanation there, other than the fact that (relative to other Presidents) he didn't travel around all that much. I do think the knowledge that Cheney was next in line probably did a lot to curb it, though.

This is a boring question. You're wondering when an unforeseeable event will occur or not. Will your city see its first earthquake/flood? Whatever. Next week? Four years? Irrelevant...it's all conspiracy theories and prejudice. Am I prejudiced against white Bible-holding rednecks? Yes.

They have those in Canada? Didn't think they made it that far out of their trailer in Alabama.

It's irrelevant whether they are in Canada or not - what, I have to live in America to comment on it? That's absurd - but yes, we do have those people. Haven't you heard of Alberta?

I grew up in Alberta, and I can attest that they do have those people. Alberta has a big cowboy culture going on. It's like Texas with snow, and people hate Pakistanis instead of Mexicans. Or at least that was the group to hate on when I was there. They may have moved on by now.

Is irrelevant your new word of the day? What's really irrelevant is your view of the question being boring, because if you think that, then simply don't post in the thread. No one cares that you think it's a boring question.

According to wikipedia, the "bible belt" in Canada refers to the majority of rural southern Alberta and Saskatchewan, parts of southern Manitoba, the Fraser Valley of British Columbia, the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia and the Saint John River Valley of New Brunswick. Don't know how much influence they hold in Canadian politics, compared to the influence our bible belters hold.

So why don't I post in every thread I wouldn't otherwise post in that it's boring? Because this specific topic keeps being propped up by commentators. A more interesting question would be, "Why would Obama survive a presidency?" which I must digress has been explored by some on this board.

I would think that 4 years of Civil War is more than enough to get people pissed about any number of things. Have you ever read anything about US History?

If your point is information overload being more likely to make people pissed off: you are wrong again. In the 1860's rumour mongering and newspapers provided all sorts of contradictory info. Finally, people who receive contradictory messages from multiple sources tend to do nothing.

Pot, I'd like to introduce you to Kettle.

And why should mobs destroy a gated community?


Clearly it's not just the Powerful and the Powerless, or to put it another way, those two categories changes places.

That's what I was implying. I think the whole "trade my death for his" weeds out most people who harbor hate for the blacks and love to shoot their guns an' shit. Unless the Jackal has it in for the guy for some obscure reason. I could be wrong, but we won't be seeing Jethro or Grand Wizard Earl anywhere near the guy. Too many cases of beer to drink.

I think the thing the people who say that Obama is not in any more danger than any other President are missing is that, because of his race, because he'd be the first black man to earn the highest office, because of the conspiracy theories, because of the tenuous state of the country, he is a much more conspicuous figure for the lone crazy to focus his rage.

Sure, that brand of crazy, that need to make a name for himself might not be any different with Obama as Prez than somebody else. But I feel like the specter of assassination being greater in the public mind with this presidency makes it more likely the gunman might choose him rather than just climbing a bell tower.

Never. Nothing will happen. How do you guys sleep? Jesus, some of you are paranoid.

In a metal box with magnets to repel the alien abductors that come for me at night.

Right! What is the point of this thread? In a way it almost sounds like Devin wants something to happen to the man. Sure there are plenty of nut jobs out in the world but you must trust that he'll be protected.

Is there a betting line in Vegas you are playing?

so break out the foil hats!

Flawed premise. Attempts on the lives of presidents (or presidential candidates) have not in recent history (since Lincoln) been made by rational critics or enemies - they're made by whackjobs. Chances of a credible attempt on Obama's life are no different than those for any other president - the jokers who are willing to take a shot aren't doing it because of the candidate's policies or his religion or race, they are doing it to get Jodi Foster's attention.

I think anyone that decides to kill a President (or any head of state) is obviously nuts. The questions is how many Presidential assassins (or would be assassins) actually had reasons to go along with the craziness. Let's take a look:

Booth kills Lincoln: Confederate sympathizer who thought he was doing the world a favor. Obviously a politically motivated/revenge assassination.

Guiteau kills Garfiled: Here we've got a mix of crazy and personal vendetta. He genuinely believed he got Garfield elected and that Garfield was slighting him by not giving him a position as ambassador, despite his constant requests (both personal and by mail). After having the door slammed in his face one too many times, he finally decided to kill Garfield. No question that Guiteau was batshit insane, but it wasn't until personal rejection came into the equation that he became murderous.

Czolgosz kills McKinley: Anarchist that was probably a sociopath (even other Anarchists were amazed at his frequently voiced support of violence), but killed McKinley partly in imiatation of the actions Anarchist Gaetano Bresci, who had killed the King of Italy about a year prior, and parlty because he held government responsible for opressing the lower class. I hesitate to call this politically motivated for a few reasons, but he was clearly obsessed with Anarchism and his intense hatred of authority and the upper class were the driving factors behind his decision to off McKinley.

Oswald (Or the CIA. Or Cubans. Or the Mob. Or Russians. Or Aliens from Area 51. Or all of them. Whatever.) kills Kennedy: Yeah, I got nothing here. Equal parts shitty life, boredom, and being a psycho, I guess.

Attempted Assinations

Lawrence tries to kill Jackson: Andrew Jackson pissed a lot of people off, probably because he'd recently killed someone close to them. Ironically, he hadn't killed Lawrence's father, but Lawrence, in a fit of craziness, believe that he had. So, in seeking revenge for an act that never happened, he decided to kill Jackson. Jackson, no stranger to violence himself , beat the shit out of Lawrence with a stick and had him carted off to the crazy house.

Schrank tries to kill Roosevelt: Schrank said McKinley's ghost told him to do it. To his credt, T.R. didn't seem to really care much about having been shot and delivered his speech anyway. Schrank could have be crazy, or maybe he could talk to ghosts. 50/50.

Truman: Peurto Rican Independence activists tried this one, as the PRI were generally pissed off at how PR was being treated. Pretty cut and dry political stuff.

Bremer tries to kill Nixon: Bremer got dumped by a teenager, became a stalker, and then decided to prove to the world that he was a man by trying to kill Nixon. Next!

Byck tries to Kill Nixon: Two tries! Nixon wasn't a popular guy. Almost 30 years before Al Qaeda ripped him off, Byck tries to crash an airliner into the White House and kill Nixon. Unfortunately for him, he's told it can't take off. So he kills the pilots and then himself. Sort of like our buddy Czolgosz, Byck was a big believer in Government oppression of the poor, but this attempt was probably driven by the fact that his Small Business loan was turned down. If that isn't a valid reason, I don't know what is.

Squeaky Fromme tries to kill Ford: She was running buddies with Charles Manson. No point in further analysis.

Hinckley shoots Reagan: Jodie Foster!

Iraq tries to kill George H.W. Bush: Clearly a politicaly motivated attempt. This probably shouldn't even be counted with the others.

Corder tries to kill Clinton: Here's the second "I'll crash a plane into your house!" attempt on the list. Osama wasn't as original as everyone thought, I guess. Anyway, stories seem to indicated the guy snapped after he lost his job and his wife died. So he was obviously riding the Crazy Train.

So, what can we draw from these?

With the exception of Booth, craziness is the driving factor behind any assassination or attempted assassination. Some (very few, actually) of these craziess had "legitimate' reasons to validate their craziness, but on the whole these are not rational, sane people. Of course, anyone that thinks a Presidential candidate is a secret agent of Al Qaeda also isn't a sane, rational person either, but since it's a sort of group delusion it probably doesn't matter all that much.

Still, the point stands that politics very, very rarely factor into these things. It's the crazies by and large that pull the trigger.

Nice work. But there was also Sarah Jane Moore, she also took a shot at Ford.

And for whatever reason. A rabbit tried to make a move on Carter.

Booth was a smart, successful guy, which further separates him from the "Obama is a secret Muslim" crowd. There were many non-crazy (besides the racism) Southern people who thought Lincoln was a tyrant, whereas, if you believe the worst about Obama, you pretty much have to be uneducated or insane.

There was also some Italian guy who shot FDR, if I recall my Sondheim.

I think it's safe to say people have probably tried and been stopped, or have been plotting it for a while now. If he is elected, first attempt starts at his celebration speech. He's going to be a hell of a strain on his Secret Service team.

That's right. He missed and killed the mayor of Chicago instead.

I tend to agree with those in the thread that lean to the idea Obama has about the same chance as any other president of someone plotting to kill him. Which is to say pretty good. That being said, the only successful attempt at presidential assassination since the full time institution of the secret service to protect the president is JFK. Even if there is an attempt on Obamas life, the chances of it being successful are quite slim.

Teddy was the manliest of men. He got shot at the beginning of his speech. And proceeded to speak for a full hour before he decided he'd bled out long enough.

Tough enough to use Chuck Norris as a snotrag, I tell you.

ATF disrupts skinhead plot to assassinate Obama

By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer Lara Jakes Jordan, Associated Press Writer – 8 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Federal agents have broken up a plot to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 102 black people in a Tennessee murder spree, the ATF said Monday.

In court records unsealed Monday, federal agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target a predominantly African-American high school by two neo-Nazi skinheads. Agents said the skinheads did not identify the school by name.

Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of the Nashville field office for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said the two men planned to shoot 88 black people and decapitate another 14. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.

The men also sought to go on a national killing spree, with Obama as its final target, Cavanaugh told The Associated Press.

"They said that would be their last, final act — that they would attempt to kill Sen. Obama," Cavanaugh said. "They didn't believe they would be able to do it, but that they would get killed trying."

An Obama spokeswoman traveling with the senator in Pennsylvania had no immediate comment.

The men, Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of West Helena, Ark., are being held without bond. Agents seized a rifle, a sawed-off shotgun and three pistols from the men when they were arrested. Authorities alleged the two men were preparing to break into a gun shop to steal more.

Attorney Joe Byrd, who has been hired to represent Cowart, did not immediately return a call seeking comment Monday.

Cowart and Schlesselman are charged with possessing an unregistered firearm, conspiring to steal firearms from a federally licensed gun dealer, and threatening a candidate for president.

The investigation is continuing, and more charges are possible, Cavanaugh said

Crazies with delusions of grandeur. Killing 102 black folk, walking away, continuing on a national killing spree, then ending it in a Barack Obama assassination climax?

Those guys shouldn't even be given credit for an attempt. Their an insult to assassins everywhere.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...081obama1.html

White tuxedos and top hats????

Those guys couldn't rob a bird's nest.

The white would show off all of the blood from the thousands of bullet holes that they'd receive from the Secret Service. They are obviously fans of the ending of John Woo's 'The Killer'.

They admitted they wanted to kill him but that they had no chance, and they had no real plan. That's not a real assassination attempt. I'm sure there will be least one though.

I know the title of this thread includes the word 'attempt' but I was only referring to serious attempts only.

It is absolutely true that only popular presidents are targeted, which has made Obama a huge security factor the day he started running.

Ugh, this thread is so dark. I'm writing around the sentence that describes the central premise of this thread.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that, but:
(a) I still maintain that the kind of person who actually points a gun at the prez and pulls the trigger is "Crazy" on a plane above those who are "crazy" enough to think Obama is a sleeper agent, or even those "crazy" enough to spitball mass beheadings and tuxedo-clad racist suicide pacts. And that pool of available "Crazy" is about the same for any president; and
(b) A more popular prez might draw more "Crazy," I guess, but is Obama that much more popular than Clinton was at his peak?

They seem crazy and incompetent, but it seems they were going to kill somebody eventually.

Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't feel that we live in a time and place where political assassination is in the cards. As far as the rallies, that's just desperate people getting fired up by the machine. Hell, in 2004 they did everything but call Kerry a fag, and that was a close election. This is what happens when the GOP's candidate is getting his ass kicked.

I don't think anyone's going to try and kill Obama.

They probably would have killed me, because my first remark would have been "Nice lipstick, you douchebag. Playing Eva Braun to your older pal's Adolf, bitch?"

No, it wouldn't have. Unless they were planning an e-assassination?

heh i was wondering about that