Is Bush the 5th worst president ever?

Looks like the article has him at sixth worst, unless I'm counting wrong.

The problem is, it's so easy to forget about the likes of Pierce and Van Buren because they were so bad (or Harrison, who's forgotten because he was only Pres. for 32 days), they've kind of just faded into history. You never hear about those guys in school. Nixon and Bush should switch places on the list, though.

They're tied.

Yea, didn't realize that. Bush is still worse then Nixon.

Not enough stuff has been declassified yet to effectively rate GWB's legacy as president. We'll be able to more effectively rate his presidency and its impact on our country and the world in about 10-15 years, so don't get into a huff that he's not higher on the list.

Look at it this way -- it's not like history is going to elevate him any higher than that.

I don't see 5th... he should at least be 2nd to worst. No one is worse than Buchanan.

Is there anything positive that has come out of this administration? Anything?

I can think of one major thing in Nixon's administration that boosts him over Bush.

Chinese relations.

Serious question... Isn't Barbara Bush related to Pierce? I think it's her great grandfather or something.

Yes, that's her maiden name. Not sure of the relation tho... just know that they are related.

I always figured Millard Fillmore was a solid 33.

Woodrow Wilson is has gotta rank high for his role in enacting the Federal Reserve (which are just a bunch of legalized counterfitters who can print money & credit out of thin air for whatever the government wants causing inflation... further weakening the U.S. dollar.)

Nixon may have been corrupt, power-mad and hateful, but he was a pretty decent president, all things considered. Buchanan is the worst, with Bush and Andrew Johnson fighting it out for runner-up (depending on how Iraq turns out).

People talk about African aid a lot. I understand the US's contributions to AIDS relief hinge on not encouraging condom use because of some religion so I disagree, but that's what people talk about.

He also followed through on a commitment to declare some space near Hawaii as a nature preserve, so I guess some kudos are due Bush for not screwing that up.

And that's all I can think of. Oh, and lots of defense industry shareholders got richer. That can be construed as a positive if you care about the rich getting richer.

It doesn't depend on how Iraq turns out. The false pretenses can't become real and the dead cannot be brought back to life. That bed is made.

Besides the living memories of everyone now on the planet, there are enough journalist's pieces, sketch comedy artifacts, video clips of him fucking up a speech, and, you know, clearly attributable problems to make Bush a laughingstock well through the first half of this century, which should really be enough for everyone.

If the price of Bush and his fellow scum being jailed for life were never being able to hear him speak again, I'd pay it with a smile.

Woodrow Wilson should be tied for one one not only for the Fed, but the illegal Sixteenth Amendment( being it was never truly ratified) income tax scandal, WW1, Versailles Treaty, league of Nations, and the fact he use to like to run around in a white hood and bed sheet.

So how does US Grant not make the list, he should be about Number 5 on the list , and LBJ should be tied with Nixon.

If by truly ratified you mean that every state hasn't ratified it (the six that haven't being Florida, Utah, Rhode Island, Connecticut, PA, and Virginia), then yea, you're right. But Woodrow Wilson wasn't the first to propose an income tax, and if memory serves correctly, the Socialist Party advocated a graduated income tax in the 1880's, and the amendment to the Constitution was originally proposed by Taft in the early 1910's. Not to mention the amendment was supported by a large part of our population, since it took 3/4 of the vote in every state that it passed in (44 total).

Woodrow Wilson deserves his place in the middle of the pack, maybe in the high 20's.

Man, talk about bearing a grudge.

My father recently failed to convince me that Nixon was a worse president than W. Honestly I just don't find Watergate all that shocking. Nixon's major failure was Nam, but it wasn't his war, which I think gives him the advantage over Bush. That, and he wasn't a fucking moron. A smart monster gets more credit in my book than a fucking moron.

The fact that you aren't very dismayed about Watergate is a major part of his horrible legacy.

Not to defend W in any way; to have earned the comparisons he has while still in office, and after having sky-high approval ratings dropped in his lap on 9/12, is impressive. It's taken some pretty massive failings on many distinct fronts. And we probably haven't even gotten to hear some of the juicier bits yet.

wow...I really have to brush up on my history...I forgot we even had a President named Pierce...

No mention of Warren Harding by any of you? For shame.

No way Nixon and W are tied. Love him or hate him, at least he did some things right. W, not so much. I can't think of one thing that's demonstrably better today than when Bush took office.

You could say the same when Nixon resigned. Except for relations with China and Title IX.

You may have two excellent points there.

'The only thing he did right was China' is something I hear a lot. Can anyone name even one thing W did right?

Other than what you mentioned, there was the fact that when he left office, our relations with Russia were cooler than they were prior and that fighting in Vietnam had pretty much ended (not under the most flattering of circumstances, but still). I can't think of anything that's improved under Bush. The economy has gone down the crapper, we've to varying degrees lost support from every ally we have, we're still stuck in the war he started (never mind that its not even supposed to be possible for a president to do such a thing), we've made next to no progress on the environment, not to mention being light a couple skyscrapers and much of a major American city because, get this, it turns out it rains pretty hard in the gulf sometimes.

Then again, Bush has gotten away with a lot because of Nixon's legacy. In a different time, the politicizing of the Justice Department or the falsification of evidence to take the country to war would've been seen as grave breaches of trust and impeachable offenses. But Nixon and Watergate severely wounded our ability to feel political outrage, which is a rather critical component of republican democracy.

Ranking them is difficult, because they both offer such an embarrassment of riches.

He's budgeted for tons of money to prevent the spread of AIDS in Africa. Credit where due.

This is true. Every guy I've ever spoken to that grew up in Africa (and there are more than you think around here, and I've worked with a lot of them) has nothing but love for GWB.

I can believe someone blaming Bush for his reponse to 9/11 and Katrina, but do you really think the World Trade Center would still be standing and New Orleans would never have flooded with a different President elected in 2000?

OK, but China was not something that was expected out of Nixon, and was actually pretty revolutionary in modern politics.

The occurance of the two events isn't the point, the response was, especially in the case of Katrina. Most of the horrible shit that happened there could've been avoided had there been a reaction.


But there is a small part of me that thinks Al Gore could've read the 9/11 warning signs.

He improved a small town in Texas (Crawford) immeasurably.

That's all I got.

He would have been too worried about ManBearPig to see it coming.

Most likely not, although it is possible. I was listing them as tangible ways things have gotten worse during his watch. They certainly don't speak in his favor.

I expect the vast majority of mouth breathers to believe stuff like "Bush is teh worst president evah," but I would hope Chewers would be better students of history.

Bush has been really bad. Certainly in the bottom ten. But there are a few presidents who were so horrific (Buchanan comes to mind), that you could divide them into two or three parts, and those individual parts would still be worse than G.W.

Even among the modern Presidents (post WWII), there are a few candidates who give him a run for his money.

**I can't get the link to work. Could someone post the top ten or so?

While the AIDS money to Africa is a great thing, it's really meaningless to the people in America. I mean seriously... how fucked up is it when we cite the best thing an American president did during his terms in office and we come up with helping people in ANOTHER continent?

Sorry, but ultimate failure for Bush as a president. The AIDS thing doesn't even equate as a good thing for us here.

He's not the worst, but I would certainly mark him in the bottom 3. I didn't really get the Pierce hate from the article, but... to each his own, I guess. Buchanan is the worst, clearly. His lack of action practically started the Civil War. Harding and Hoover are up there as well.

I would put GW Bush at 39 or 40 at the absolute highest.

I just think we should just stick to blaming him for things that we know he is directly responsible for (there is plenty) instead of trying to blame him for things out of his control like a Category 5 Hurricane directly striking a city that is sitting below sea-level.

If Gore had been President with a signed Kyoto Protocol sitting on the Oval Office Mantlepiece, New Orleans still would have flooded.

The Times has only posted half of the list so far.

The level of flooding was predictable and preventable.

The level of human tragedy was preventable.

How much blame Bush & Co. take for New Orleans not having adequate levies is debatable. But he takes all the blame for FEMA having an unqualified dipshit at the helm, and for having our NATIONAL guard indisposed on another continent.

Currently, I'd peg Bush as a solid 2nd-worst, with it likely he passes Buchanon. The Civil War seemed pretty inevitable. Pretty much all of Bush's disasters were preventable, with most of them being directly a result of his administration's stupidity and/or intent.

It's hard to go against "the civil war prez", but it says a lot that Bush is in the discussion. Heck, Bush should root for a SuperObama presidency that fixes everything and makes us all poop cotton candy, since that's the best bet to save his legacy.

FACEPALM

Hahahaha I had a similar reaction.

Created the Department of Homeland Security.

Largest middle class tax cut in <insert fact here>

No Child Left Behind

But it was. The anti-slavery framers of the Constitution warned about it almost a hundred years before.

DHS is an utter failure. Too much bureaucracy.

Tax cuts during war? Failure.

No Child Left Behind is one of the worst things that ever happened to American education. Teaching to the test fails on every level.

Try again, Snaieke.

Bwaa-HA-Ha-Ha!

No Child Left Behind is one of the worst things to EVER happen in the history of education.

(edit: Whoa)

Opened the door to the privacy-destroying Patriot Act.

Ultimately didn't do jack shit for the economy.

Failed to give schools the money, resources, or standards to follow through with its lofty ideas.

What else you got?

EDIT: Yeah, what those guys said^ ^^

Snaiekie needs to watch The Wire, especially season four.

Hey, we agree!

I am not that well-read to say if W has been the worst (certainly Buchanan has his knocks against him,) but he has to be near the bottom. And isn't that enough?

IMO W's immediate response to 9/11 turned me completely around on the guy, I thought maybe he had truly risen to the occasion....

...then we got the Patriot Act and the Iraq War.

Wait....you're serious?

Who the fuck else thinks NCLB did a lot of good for our educational system?