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Finally, A Book For the Obsessive-Compulsive PLANET OF THE APES Fan

post #1 of 58
10/29/08 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
http://chud.com/articles/articles/16...FAN/Page1.html
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post #2 of 58
10/29/08 at 4:47pm
I loved these films growing up. And always found the continuity fascinating.

It was a huge letdown when the Burton film was released.
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post #3 of 58
10/29/08 at 4:49pm
I should probably watch one of these sometime.
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post #4 of 58
10/29/08 at 4:51pm
Start with the first one.
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post #5 of 58
10/29/08 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-3 View Post
Start with the first one.
You think?
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post #6 of 58
10/29/08 at 4:53pm
The book sounds awesome, and I'll have to check it out from the library sometime, but I am REALLY looking forward to your revisiting of the Planet of the Apes films. Cannot wait to see what your rating system will be for that one.
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post #7 of 58
10/29/08 at 4:55pm
I thought Eric Green's Planet of the Apes As American Myth was that book.

I remember discovering the internet in 1996 or so and being geeked out over websites that tried to do this timeline shit. I have two discarded remake scripts - one by Terry Hayes, one by (I think) Sam Hamm. The eventual remake kind of killed the buzz for me, though I still haven't sold the metal POTA garbage can I had as a kid:



But that chessboard/model kit box-type illustration kind of seals the deal for me buying that book.

Oh, and Devin, if you're revisiting, this comes out Tuesday:

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post #8 of 58
10/29/08 at 4:56pm
Thread Starter 
I want that garbage can very, very badly.
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post #9 of 58
10/29/08 at 4:58pm
Mine's a little banged up, but yeah, I stared at that thing in my room all the time back in the 70s. It has spoilers on it.
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post #10 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Mine's a little banged up, but yeah, I stared at that thing in my room all the time back in the 70s. It has spoilers on it.
That's the best kind of trash can.
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post #11 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:00pm
Thread Starter 
I'm kind of mad you linked that because I'm trying to get someone to buy it for me for my birthday right now. Your link puts me in jeopardy!
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post #12 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:01pm
Hot damn, that's going on my Christmas wish list. I think I've seen the original dozens of times at this point, and I still find myself dropping everything and just watching it whenever it comes on tv. And even though I know the ending, it still gets me. One of the most powerful things and while none of the sequels reached the greatness of the first, it shames me to see this series be forgotten.

Glad to see it's still got much love out there.
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post #13 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:02pm
Thread Starter 
I would argue that the fourth surpasses the greatness of the first.

And the director's cut is hitting blu-ray!!!
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post #14 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:04pm
I remember really loving the first and fourth installments of this franchise.

I'd be interesting in reading this book just to see HOW he fits in the Tim Burton movie.

ETA: Looks like I'm in agreement with Devin on this one.
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post #15 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:05pm
Haven't seen the fourth since I was a kid. Must revisit them all!
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post #16 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
I'm kind of mad you linked that because I'm trying to get someone to buy it for me for my birthday right now. Your link puts me in jeopardy!
Shit, send them the link!
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post #17 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:06pm
Haven't seen it, but everything I've heard about the DC makes it sound better, and it's my fave of the franchise. I hear it's now the movie it is.
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post #18 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Shit, send them the link!
I did before you linked it. Slow bastard is not getting back to me!
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post #19 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:08pm
So, by "director's cut", does that mean the tacked-on addendum to the final speech is gone?

Also, extended cut of Battle, which ties it more tightly to the first film. Doesn't fix everything, but Battle needs all the help it can get. Paul Williams can't fix everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
I did before you linked it. Slow bastard is not getting back to me!
21 hours left! Tick tock...
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post #20 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:11pm
It's a maaaadhouse!

The first film is a bona fide masterpiece.
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post #21 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:15pm
If you miss out on the trash can, I think this would be a good plan B:

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post #22 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:26pm
"Apes beating on piles of dead human bodies"
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post #23 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:34pm
Well, we're in total agreement there, Devin.

I often thought I was alone in my placement of POTA as the best overall sci-fi series ever. And especially in regards to your extremely high regard of the 4th one, which I often struggle with proclaiming "best" over the 1st.

Good call, sir. And yes, that book looks awesome.
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post #24 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:42pm
I was gonna write in about this book earlier, but I knew you would've heard about it by now.

I find BATTLE to hold my attention much better than ESCAPE, even if it is a cheaper and shittier film overall. Little things like the John Huston bookends, and the cornball ape-schoolhouse scenes shot under a tree in a field in California make me watch this one more than the endless Zira-in-70's clothes third film.
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post #25 of 58
10/29/08 at 5:46pm
Battle's special because it was NEVER on during "Apes Week" on ch 7 in NY. The first film took two days of the 90 minute movie slot, and they'd only get to Conquest. So Battle was this rare beast that you could never see. And I thought it was super-significant as a kid, because the orangutans were good in this one, and I was captivated by the Caesar/Aldo power struggle.
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post #26 of 58
10/29/08 at 6:15pm
If you folks aren't already aware that Diamond Select is selling replicas of the original Mego POTA action figures, you should be.
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post #27 of 58
10/29/08 at 6:16pm
Yeah, I uh...I still have the originals.
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post #28 of 58
10/29/08 at 6:26pm
On display? The Show Off Your Shelves thread has been moribund of late.
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post #29 of 58
10/29/08 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
I'd be interesting in reading this book just to see HOW he fits in the Tim Burton movie.
I only just found out today (after this article sent me off to Wikipedia to do some reading on the series) that the original book has almost the exact same ending as Burton's version.
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post #30 of 58
10/29/08 at 6:41pm
Thread Starter 
For those dying to know:

The garbage can is mine. I think.
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post #31 of 58
10/29/08 at 7:39pm
There's an interesting moment in Philip K. Dick's A Scanner Darkly (published in 1977) where the character Donna talks about going down to the drive-in to see a marathon screening of "all the Planet of the Apes pictures, all eleven of them."
Of course, there were only five theatrical films in the original franchise. However, in 1981 producers took episodes of the TV series and edited them together to make five TV movies. Add the Burton film and that makes 11.
Donna in Scanner goes on to say that she regrets missing the 11th and final film of the marathon, "where they reveal that all the famous people in history like Lincoln and Nero were secretly apes and running all human history from the start." which almost works as an interpretation of the ending of the 2001 Burton film.
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post #32 of 58
10/29/08 at 8:26pm
I want a detailed explanation on how the whole Ape Lincoln thing came to pass in Burton's film. If the book can come up with a plausible explanation for the existence of that statue then it is worth its weight in gold.

As someone who loved the Friday the 13th retrospective I look forward to one for the Apes series. But I demand that it be COMPREHENSIVE!!
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post #33 of 58
10/29/08 at 8:35pm
I want the book to fucking ignore the Burton movie. Sorry to get all fanboy, but he had as much respect for this franchise as any other existing property he's tackled, (excluding, now and forever, Ed Wood). And in this film, it dipped somewhere from "condescending" to "completely not understanding what a Rod Serling premise really means".

I should say I love when existing properties are reinvented in interesting ways. But Burton's success rate on that front isn't that great to me. And his Planet of the Apes was a blight on both his career and the property.

Not on display, Hammerhead. In storage somewhere.
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post #34 of 58
10/29/08 at 9:53pm
Is there any word on a NEW Planet of the Apes film? You'd think if Alien vs. Predator got a sequel from Fox, this would as well. At least maybe another "re-imagining"?
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post #35 of 58
10/29/08 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
I thought Eric Green's Planet of the Apes As American Myth was that book.
It is.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081...cm_rdp_product

http://www.upne.com/0-8195-6329-3.html

I just don't think Devin knows about it.

Greene just hosted a 40th Anniversary screening last Sunday here in Los Angeles. He's been interviewed on the original DVD's and they did more interviews for the BluRay releases. His book not only covers the socio-political traits of the films, comics, merchchandise, etc., but also rare production info, publicity, alternate scripts, missing footage, and more. Fox, the surviving actors, screenwriters/directors, and studio execs basically opened up their archives to Greene based on his enthusiasm. Even Charleton Heston. What started out as a college thesis by an APES fan became something that's considered a standard when it comes to examining the films as entertainment or allegory.

With all due respect to the author of the new book, Greene is considered THE expert when it comes to these films. You can't consider yourself a true APES fan if you haven't read his book.

Devin, since you said you're doing a retrospective, I'm gonna PM you some info that might help.
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post #36 of 58
10/29/08 at 10:00pm
Thread Starter 
I have that book! I'm not a total dummy! But it's old, this book is new, and this book feels less academic and more like a fan book, which would probably appeal to more folks. And it's an excuse to love on POTA on the front page.
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post #37 of 58
10/29/08 at 10:14pm
I watched all five of these for the first time one after the other when they had a marathon on the Sci-fi channel a couple of years ago. It was like an awakening. It's easily my favorite sci-fi series now.
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post #38 of 58
10/29/08 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
I have that book! I'm not a total dummy! But it's old, this book is new, and this book feels less academic and more like a fan book, which would probably appeal to more folks. And it's an excuse to love on POTA on the front page.
Oops! Sorry, I should have known. Then you can disregard the PM I sent you.
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post #39 of 58
10/30/08 at 1:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL Wack View Post
I watched all five of these for the first time one after the other when they had a marathon on the Sci-fi channel a couple of years ago. It was like an awakening. It's easily my favorite sci-fi series now.
I had only ever watched the first one, but one of those marathons back in the nineties got me absolutely hooked. I never knew there was such a sprawling story that took place over the sequels. I remember after 'Conquest,' my jaw was on the floor and I realized how under-appreciated and amazing this series really is.
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post #40 of 58
10/30/08 at 4:52am
I have an inexplicable hard-on for BENEATH. The normal human stuck between two equally fruitcake religious factions.
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post #41 of 58
10/30/08 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquafresh View Post
I want a detailed explanation on how the whole Ape Lincoln thing came to pass in Burton's film. If the book can come up with a plausible explanation for the existence of that statue then it is worth its weight in gold.
In the book, they actually go to a different planet, they don't end up back on Earth. The hero escapes back to Earth (700 years after he left), only to discover that the apes there have also evolved to be superior to humans. It's not really explained beyond evolution following a similar path on two different worlds.

In the Burton film, it's implied that, after Thade stole the spaceship, he somehow got to Earth in the past, and changed history before Wahlberg showed up.
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post #42 of 58
11/28/08 at 9:17pm
Heads up: all five films (and 4 tv movies cobbled together from the tv series) running in a loop til Sunday morning on Fox Movies (thanks Dickson). See all five! See the extended version of the hated fifth film! See lil Jackie Earle Haley go toe to toe with Spock's dad in gorilla makeup!
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post #43 of 58
11/28/08 at 9:52pm
What channel?
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post #44 of 58
11/28/08 at 10:18pm
Shit, sorry. Fox Movie Channel.
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post #45 of 58
11/28/08 at 10:45pm
I was always hoping they'd find footage from the alternate "pregnant Nova" ending - hard to imagine any other ending for that film...
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post #46 of 58
11/28/08 at 10:48pm
There was an alternate ending for Beneath that featured an ape/mutant hybrid.
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post #47 of 58
11/28/08 at 10:49pm
Thread Starter 
I don't think that was ever shot. It was a possible opening for PLANET OF THE MEN, a potential sequel.
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post #48 of 58
11/28/08 at 10:50pm
I forgot about the un-filmed happy ending to Beneath!
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post #49 of 58
11/28/08 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
I don't think that was ever shot. It was a possible opening for PLANET OF THE MEN, a potential sequel.
Nah, just test makeups. Think the footage of the kid is on Behind the Planet of the Apes (one of the cuts - I think there are 2 or 3 versions of that thing floating around).
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post #50 of 58
11/28/08 at 11:59pm
Rewatching the first one, I love how saturated it is with the aesthetics of a Western - rifles, horses, Death Valley, cornfields, day-for-night. It's largely (possibly completely) absent from Serling's screenplay, but it adds much to the subtext as well as the viewing experience.

Oh, and the Tom Rothman monologue in front of this kind of pissed me off. He can't help but talk about remaking the bomb Dr. Doolittle into a smash, as well as giving too much love to Burton's Apes remake. How do you fuck this up:

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