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2009 MLB Offseason - Page 2

post #51 of 146
Fuck the Yankees!

And, fuck the stupid free agency compensation system where the Brewers now get a 2nd round pick as compensation for Sabathia instead of a first rounder.
post #52 of 146
I'm through with the Yankees. I don't want to see this team anymore. If they hadn't asked the city for money, then maybe I wouldn't be so angry.
post #53 of 146
The Yankees have been spending money like it's going out of style for years and they haven't won the World Series since 2000, so I'm just hoping the trend continues and they eventually wise up or go broke.
post #54 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Floyd View Post
TEIXEIRA TO YANKS

I can feeeel the hate swelling inside you....
Indeed... The Empire has now rebuilt the Death Star.
post #55 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tieman View Post
The Yankees have been spending money like it's going out of style for years and they haven't won the World Series since 2000, so I'm just hoping the trend continues and they eventually wise up or go broke.
For what it's worth I don't think the payroll will be higher than last year.
post #56 of 146
Well, they do have that new stadium to pay off, too.
post #57 of 146
No, the city gets to pay for that.
post #58 of 146
Fuck!!!
post #59 of 146
I'm half-excited/half-disgusted. I think that's the way most Yankee fans feel. Terrific players are coming here but year after year, they keep bringing in these mega-contracts and they simply don't work. Despite these big signings, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself sitting there in October, distraught after another first round loss. It's called chemistry and the Yankees have forgotten all about it since their last World Series win.

And that Burnett deal is gonna end up sucking balls. He's gonna be hurt half the time. God, I hate that contract.
post #60 of 146
Someone on WFAN (not exactly an unbiased source, but whatever) brought up that they were more upset with the teams taking the Yankees Luxury tax money (the Pirates, Royals, etc.) and doing NOTHING with that money to make their team better. Sure, the Yankees and Red Sox may treat salaries like Lennie treats the rabbits but they are trying to better their teams, which is more than a lot of teams can say.

As a Yankee hater this just gives me more players to dislike, which is a bummer every off-season. Paging Mr. Ramirez , please report to left field...
post #61 of 146
If the Yankees don't make the playoffs then feel free to mock away, because obviously this team is being built to get there, and handily.

But playoffs, as always, are crapshoots. It's actually a problem I have (as a Yankee fan) with the Steinbrenners and most of the fans that they consider anything but a WS championship a failure. The 1998 Yankees were one of those once-in-a-lifetime teams, but there's nothing appreciably better about the Yankees that won in 2000 and the Yankees that lost the Series in 2001 and 2003.
post #62 of 146
My dislike for the Yankees is equal to the fury of a thousand suns. And i for one am outraged that out of nowhere the Yankees sign Texiera after all signs were pointing to him signing with Boston, the Angels, or even the Nationals, still as has been said before treating your team like a Fantasy League does not guarantee success. I certainly hope the Yankees fall flat on their face come late Aug., Sep. or even Oct. but again, chemistry is very important having an all star at every position puts a shit load of pressure on the Manager and coaching staff.

Until Baseball gets some form of salary cap Baseball will continue to separated between the teams that spend money on obscene levels and those teams that might as well be receiving some form of social welfare, i.e. the Pirates, Royals, Padres, Reds, A's, et al.
post #63 of 146
Baseball is completely worthless until it gets some sort of cap and some form of revenue sharing. It takes the longest of long shots of drafting and getting lucky with free agents for a small or even a medium market team to have a shot. I listen to lots of the fan and ESPN NY (radio) and they always complaint hat the tax money goes into other owners pockets not on the field. That is all a bunch of crap. Those teams use the money so they can actually make a profit with the small budget they have. Without that tax money they would LOSE money even with their ultra small budgets. Every single year the Yankees (and other giant market teams) are in the running, and when they are not its a giant travesty according to the media. While this is going on, most of the citites go into the year knowing they have no shot. They also know that if some, but not all, of their young players get good then they will need to trade them because they can not afford them and not make the playoffs. Almost all the teams are now farm teams for the Yankees. Baseball is broken. Its a sport for non fans now, simply because only a handful of teams are competitive.
post #64 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint G View Post
Baseball is completely worthless until it gets some sort of cap and some form of revenue sharing.
Minnesota is good every year. TB built through the draft. Expos were a powerhouse for a while with stud players coming up every year. Oakland is alost always contending. You can win if you put money into the farm system and develop your own players.

It sucks for teams like Pittsburg, Cincy and KC who lose every year but it's not like they don't have the road map. They are just poorly run teams.

Sure my team has about a 110-120 million payroll but with 60 dollar bleacher tickets to premium games we pay for the talent. It also hasn't brought the team a World Series.
post #65 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
Minnesota is good every year. TB built through the draft. Expos were a powerhouse for a while with stud players coming up every year. Oakland is alost always contending. You can win if you put money into the farm system and develop your own players.

It sucks for teams like Pittsburg, Cincy and KC who lose every year but it's not like they don't have the road map. They are just poorly run teams.

Sure my team has about a 110-120 million payroll but with 60 dollar bleacher tickets to premium games we pay for the talent. It also hasn't brought the team a World Series.
I agree that those teams you mentioned (Pirates, Royals, and Reds) are teams that have incompetent management and poor scouting. It certainly is possible for small market teams like Oakland, Minnesota, and Tampa Bay to be successful and competetive if they draft well and develop good players. However, the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, even the Cubs, all have an advantage over most other teams because the money they spend on players is appreciably more than those small market teams. Basically, it comes down to the haves and have nots. Spending a gazillion dollars on free agent players may not guarantee you a world series win or even appearance, but it puts you waaaaaaay ahead of the rest of the pack.
post #66 of 146
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
I agree that those teams you mentioned (Pirates, Royals, and Reds) are teams that have incompetent management and poor scouting. It certainly is possible for small market teams like Oakland, Minnesota, and Tampa Bay to be successful and competetive if they draft well and develop good players. However, the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, even the Cubs, all have an advantage over most other teams because the money they spend on players is appreciably more than those small market teams. Basically, it comes down to the haves and have nots. Spending a gazillion dollars on free agent players may not guarantee you a world series win or even appearance, but it puts you waaaaaaay ahead of the rest of the pack.
What a pile of horseshit.

MLB has doubled its revenue over the past five years ($3.88B - $6.5B*), and these small market teams I see people shed innumerable tears over haven’t done much to reflect that drastic change in cash flow. Guess what, teams in the NFL spend more, as a fraction of overall revenue, on players than teams in MLB do (58%-52%), and that share has actually been going down for quite some time (players made up 63% of overall revenue in 2003).**

So, if players are getting paid less, and teams are earning money hand over fist, why the fuck are teams like the Pirates noncompetitive? Maybe, just maybe, it’s because MLB owners like to run their franchises like businesses instead of sports franchises. Or, perhaps they are, as Anya mentioned, incompetently managed. I’ll tell you one thing, though, neither are positions I have much sympathy for.

I mean, I fucking hate the Yankees, from Derek Jeter on down to Michael Kay, but if there’s one thing I’ll never, ever, begrudge them on, it’s the fact that they actually invest the money they take from their fans back into their bloody team.

* http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

** http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60965



Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilTwin View Post
And, fuck the stupid free agency compensation system where the Brewers now get a 2nd round pick as compensation for Sabathia instead of a first rounder.
This, though, is a gaping flaw in the current system. The compensation system, in general, tends to wrongly benefit big market teams.
post #67 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNkaholic View Post
What a pile of horseshit.

MLB has doubled its revenue over the past five years ($3.88B - $6.5B*), and these small market teams I see people shed innumerable tears over haven’t done much to reflect that drastic change in cash flow. Guess what, teams in the NFL spend more, as a fraction of overall revenue, on players than teams in MLB do (58%-52%), and that share has actually been going down for quite some time (players made up 63% of overall revenue in 2003).**

So, if players are getting paid less, and teams are earning money hand over fist, why the fuck are teams like the Pirates noncompetitive? Maybe, just maybe, it’s because MLB owners like to run their franchises like businesses instead of sports franchises. Or, perhaps they are, as Anya mentioned, incompetently managed. I’ll tell you one thing, though, neither are positions I have much sympathy for.

I mean, I fucking hate the Yankees, from Derek Jeter on down to Michael Kay, but if there’s one thing I’ll never, ever, begrudge them on, it’s the fact that they actually invest the money they take from their fans back into their bloody team.

* http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

** http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60965





This, though, is a gaping flaw in the current system. The compensation system, in general, tends to wrongly benefit big market teams.
I'm not talking about revenue. I realize that every owner in MLB is wealthy beyond belief and that they are making money, "Hand over fist." My point was that the teams that spend more $$$ than other (usually small market) teams have a clear advantage. The 'big market' teams I mentioned in my post essentially have a competative edge and even though anything can happen in the playoffs, they are far more likely to get there than small market teams. I'm not sitting in my house shedding tears for small market teams, I'm actually a fan of the Angels-a team that has spent money in recent years for free agents. But how do you think baseball fans in Pittsburgh, Cinci., KC, San Diego, or Colorado feel this off season knowing the Yankees have spent nearly half a billion dollars on 3 free-agent players.
post #68 of 146
Thread Starter 
Of course you’re talking about revenue, the only thing preventing these teams from competing with the Yankees on free agents is their “lack” of revenue. All a salary cap does is tell the NY Yankees that, instead of putting money back into the product on the field, to, instead, put it in their back pockets.

If every team generated the same amount of revenue, what purpose would a cap serve?
post #69 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
But how do you think baseball fans in Pittsburgh, Cinci., KC, San Diego, or Colorado feel this off season knowing the Yankees have spent nearly half a billion dollars on 3 free-agent players.
You forgot about the Lou.
post #70 of 146
It will never happen..nor should it..what if Manny signed with the Tampa Bay Rays. It would make for some interesting televison.
post #71 of 146
DeRosa traded to the Indians
Quote:
DeRosa has been traded to the Cleveland Indians for minor league pitchers Jeff Stevens, Chris Archer and John Gaub. DeRosa will likely slide into Cleveland's opening at third base.

With the Cubs close to finalizing another trade -- right-hander Jason Marquis to the Colorado Rockies for right-handed reliever Luis Vizcaino -- the deals are seen as a precursor to the Cubs negotiating a free-agent deal with outfielder Milton Bradley.
Cubs better be getting Peavy with trading a starter for some minor league pitchers. Doesn't make sense to trade A guy like DeRosa for minor league talent.

Cubs also signed sub Aaron Miles to replace DeRosa.
post #72 of 146
Aaron Miles is now a traitor.
post #73 of 146
Thread Starter 
So, the Phillies sign Raúl Ibañez to a three-year, $30M contract, to replace Pat Burrell, who’s about to sign a two-year deal with the Rays. Yep, that signing is beginning to make even less sense now. Alhough, I suppose the annual rate could still save the Phillies from looking downright ridiculous.

[Edit: Whoops, I guess not. The deal on the table is two-years, $16M.]
post #74 of 146
Well, the story in town is that they wanted Ibanez all along. I wonder if they would have changed their approach if they knew they could get him for this little. According to Burrell's agent, they never even made an offer.

At the very least, they look wise for not offering arbitration. But boy, I would have loved him back for that contract. Screw the money, the years are the appealing part.
post #75 of 146
Thread Starter 
That deal is so absurd I’m sort of pissed at the Mets for not getting in on that. Actually, you know what? I’m not. The Rays being run competently is great to see, especially now that they’re actually spending some money.
post #76 of 146
Bradley to the Cubs
Espn says it's 3 yrs/30 million. He's basically taking Wood's salary slot.

All depends on health but the Cubs needed someone who can hit in the postseason. hopefull Bradley will do.

Fukodome is CF bound unless somehow he is traded. They have Gathwright and Reed Johnson for back up CF and Reed can play all 3. I don't see the Cubs carrying 6 outfielders so Pie has to be traded now.
post #77 of 146
Pending good health, Tampa is still better than the Yankees with the addition of Burrell and a full year of David Price.
post #78 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
I'd rather have seen Ibanez come over, but if Bradley can stay healthy this could prove to be a great move. *fingers crossed*

I'm still hoping they can work something out with Peavy, too.
post #79 of 146
Thread Starter 
post #80 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
Bradley to the Cubs
Espn says it's 3 yrs/30 million. He's basically taking Wood's salary slot.

All depends on health but the Cubs needed someone who can hit in the postseason. hopefull Bradley will do.

Fukodome is CF bound unless somehow he is traded. They have Gathwright and Reed Johnson for back up CF and Reed can play all 3. I don't see the Cubs carrying 6 outfielders so Pie has to be traded now.
So they dumped a great personality in DeRosa and picked up an asshole? There's a reason this guy can never stick with the same team. Should be VERY entertaining for the next 3 years.
post #81 of 146
That letter is awesome Monk.

All the talk radio in Tampa seem to really approve of the deal (I know I do).
post #82 of 146
Did I miss something over the past 10 years of Pat 'the Bat' underachieving for Philly? Everyone's acting like Tampa found Ted Williams sitting around in Free Agency.

Maybe he'll get that average up over .270 now that he doesn't have to worry about slowly fielding everything.

I keed, I keed. I'm cool with Pat.
post #83 of 146
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rando View Post
Did I miss something over the past 10 years of Pat 'the Bat' underachieving for Philly? Everyone's acting like Tampa found Ted Williams sitting around in Free Agency.

Maybe he'll get that average up over .270 now that he doesn't have to worry about slowly fielding everything.

I keed, I keed. I'm cool with Pat.
This has very little to do with Pat Burrell and everything to do with Raúl Ibañez being his slower, older, and more expensive doppelgänger.
post #84 of 146
Haven't seen much of Ibanez, but I think "slower" is wrong. Everything I've read is that he's faster and in better shape, but his awkwardness in the field negates those differences. That is, he'll get to balls that Burrell wouldn't, but he won't necessarily field them cleanly.

Not trying to defend the move, as I'd take Burrell over Ibanez (even before the cash/year differences!), but it's not quite as wild as you're making it out to be. In fact, I think the swap will not look as bad as this year. Ibanez will be hitting in a better ballpark against weaker pitching in a better lineup. Burrell is going to playing a position he has long loathed and wanted to avoid going into the offseason.

I bet Burrell starts very slow, but winds up around his career numbers come the end of the season. Ibanez will probably be great against RHP but prove that his numbers last year against LHP were a fluke. I'll probably be much more upset about in year three.
post #85 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomstick View Post
So they dumped a great personality in DeRosa and picked up an asshole? There's a reason this guy can never stick with the same team.
He hasn't stayed around because of injuries. Teams will put up with assholes if it helps them win.
post #86 of 146
MB can carry a team when healthy. Physically healthy, that is.
post #87 of 146
Thread Starter 
I never took issue with the Phillies targeting Ibañez, but avoiding arbitration when Burrell wanted out, and signing Ibañez to three years, $30 million, is just baffling. Could it work out? Sure, Burrell could flame out or get hurt, and Ibañez could maintain his production into his 40s, but you can't tell me you’re happy about how things turned out.

Lastly, I still don’t get how you defend the Phillies for not offering Burrell arbitration. Both Burrell and Ibañez would’ve been Type A free agents, and we’ve actually seen how this would’ve played out in how the Mariners handled Ibañez, who, unlike the Phillies, actually got draft picks for losing a free agent because they offered arbitration. Both Burrell and the Phillies pretty clearly misread the market, so to act like either would’ve known where the wind was blowing is a tad disingenuous. I mean, Burrell already turned down a two-year, $22M, offer, and Ibañez, a perfect comp for Burrell, actually did turn down arbitration. What reason is there to believe Burrell actually would’ve accepted arbitration given the information he had at the time?
post #88 of 146
As I said in my most recent post, I wasn't defending the move. I also said that I'd rather have Burrell than Ibanez, even when taking the cash and contract length out of the equation. So no, I'm not happy about how things turned out and don't think I said I was. I just think making Ibanez out to be inferior to Burrell in all aspects of the game is a bit much. He has a few strengths over Burrell -- not enough to justify the decision-making, but the Phils won't exactly be struggling to score runs next year.

Well, except for against lefthanded pitching!

As for the arbitration issue ... I was trying to explain it from their point-of-view more than defend it. And at the time, it made much more sense to me, as it seemed like these outfielders would all benefit from a solid Manny contract.

In retrospect, they should have offered it, although I don't think it's a slam dunk that he wouldn't have accepted it. I'm not sure why you think that Pat wanted out -- I think you're remembering a pretty dated sentiment. His past two years here were quite good, and he hinted pretty strongly that he'd take a little less to stay.

So yes, it's a bummer. I hope it's just a new GM learning the ropes, but I've never liked Amaro, so I feel you may see a number of confusing moves over the next 2-3 years.
post #89 of 146
Thread Starter 
I don’t view Ibañez as a downgrade, and if you swapped these two deals, I’d be applauding Amaro. It’s the off the field stuff that’s making me scratch my head.
post #90 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay f View Post
MB can carry a team when healthy. Physically healthy, that is.

His numbers last year, were the best of his career. That will never change. 2008 will always be Milton Bradley's best year. Derosa almost put up as good of numbers and isn't the injury risk or asshole he is. Also, Derosa could play a ton of positions.
post #91 of 146
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomstick View Post
His numbers last year, were the best of his career. That will never change. 2008 will always be Milton Bradley's best year. Derosa almost put up as good of numbers and isn't the injury risk or asshole he is. Also, Derosa could play a ton of positions.
I was with you up until the Derosa comp, I mean, if Derosa “almost put up” Bradley’s numbers last year, then Bradley “almost put up” Pujols’. You don’t have to downplay his performance on the field to get there, merely the baggage that’ll almost assuredly limit his playing time.
post #92 of 146
I'll be shocked if Milton plays 100 games next season.
post #93 of 146
All Milton has to do is be ready for the playoffs.

As much as I loved DeRosa this team needed some change. Derosa wasn't the problem in the playoffs but Sori and DLee aren't going anywhere. Plus DeRosa had a career year. It will be tough to repeat.

Some think Bradley won't hit as well because of his home/away splits last year. DeRosa played in Texas before coming here and he got better.


Brad "my arm hurts" Penny signed w/ the Red Sox.

Trevor Hoffman in milwaukee. I smell mid season trade bait.
post #94 of 146
Thread Starter 
Thank God the Mets finally realized a starting rotation can’t have absolute crap at the 5-6 slots in their rotation. “Sixth starters,” on average, throw 100-150 innings per season, and instead of the Mets throwing out their usual dregs, Tim Redding pushes Jonathon Niese into that role.
post #95 of 146
Looks like David Cross can break out the Ricky Henderson bit one last time.
post #96 of 146
Jim Rice gets in as well.

Almost-got-ins include: Andre Dawson (67 percent), Bert Blyleven (62.7 percent), Lee Smith (44.5), Jack Morris (44.0), Tommy John (31.7) and Tim Raines (22.6).

Tommy John will get in on the veteran's committee, I believe. Not so sure about the others.
post #97 of 146
Saito to the Red Sox. Dammit, the Dodgers are going to have no one this year. This sucks.
post #98 of 146
Criminal Blyleven hasn't gotten in. Rice is borderline.
post #99 of 146
Thread Starter 
Wow, so the only free agent the Atlanta Braves can manage to sign is the only one the Mets needed. Sweet..
post #100 of 146
The Felix Pie era is over in Chicago as he was traded to Baltimore for a shitty starter. He had such value a few years ago.
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