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Steven Erikson's Malazan Books of the Fallen

post #1 of 81
Thread Starter 
Beware: Here be spoilers.

The Malazan Book of the Fallen is an epic fantasy series written by Canadian author Steven Erikson, published in ten volumes starting with Gardens of the Moon. Eight books are available as of July 2008 and two are forthcoming. It is wide in scope and encompassing the stories of a very large cast of characters. Each book tells a different chapter in the ongoing saga of the world upon which the Malazan Empire is located. For the first five books, each volume is relatively self-contained, in that the primary conflict of each novel is resolved within that novel. However, many underlying characters and events are interwoven throughout the works of the series, binding it together. The second half of the series is much more traditionally structured with events in one novel leading into the next.

The Malazan world was co-created by Steven Erikson and Ian Cameron Esslemont in the early 1980s as a backdrop for roleplaying games. In 2005 Esslemont began publishing his own series of five novels set in the same world, beginning with Night of Knives. Although Esslemont's books are published under a different series title - Novels of the Malazan Empire - Esslemont and Erikson collaborated on the storyline for the entire fifteen-book project and Esslemont's novels are considered as canonical and integral to the series as Erikson's own.

The Malazan series is often compared both to Glen Cook's Black Company,[1] (to whom the seventh book is dedicated) and George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
So I'm not the only Erickson freak around here? Neat!

Toll was better than I expected, yet had some failings. Most of the book is a setup, but things goes epic in the Erickson way. The last 200 pages are amazing. The whole Anomander Rake stuff was great, but one character I didn't give a fuck about, Nimander, really came out well.

Still is the best fantasy on the market.
In order to avoid derailing the Current Reading thread further.

I liked Toll, but like the last couple, the whole book feels like build up. I think there was too much filler and humor(?).

Kallor could have had his own book. I'd like more detail about his whole story.

Have any of the other readers read anything by Ian Cameron Esslemont?
post #2 of 81
I'm about 175 pages into Toll and having some difficulty with this volume. The Bonehunters and Reaper's Gate were much better. Really starting to get a Jordan-vibe with this series.
post #3 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
Yeah, I read some, but Erickson is better. From the start Erickson said it's an influence, but the Malazan books aren't about the Bridgeburners per se. It's the scope of work that's staggering.

What did you think of Kallor, especially in this one?
Just using this to answer all of the Erikson/Cook stuff in typical rambling fashion:

Toll The Hounds (hereafter, TTH) was much better than Reaper's Gale, but I still think Erikson is suffering a bit from his one-per-year schedule. Not that I'm complaining, because Martin's been working on his much shorter Song of Ice and Fire for just as long with half the output.

TTH is almost relentlessly bleak. If you read the dedication, you'll see that Erikson's dad died while he was writing this, and the book really shows it. It's almost exclusively concerned with death, loss, disintegration, and grief. Contrary to jay, I felt the humorous asides from earlier novels are practically non-existent. It was tough going.

That said, I like how the events of Gardens of the Moon are brought full circle. I thought that wouldn't happen until the final book, so now the last two books are free to be a lot more chaotic and unpredictable.

Also, much like Martin succeeded in doing with Jaimie Lannister, Erikson has completely turned me around on Kallor. Unexpected and cool.

I also like how Erikson continues to subvert the conventions of the genre. He loves to introduce little sub-plots and characters that you think are going one way, only to have them end up being way more/less meaningful than you thought. I loved the [Spoiler]T'Lann Imass from the mine that you think is going to fuck shit up only to find that the Azath house easily trapped him.[end spoiler]

TTH ranks in the middle of the series for me, with Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, and Midnight Tides being a trifecta of badass that cannot be topped.

RE: Cook and the Black Company. I agree that Erikson is better, but man, I was really a lot less impressed with him after reading Cook's stuff. I read the first collection, and am now a bit into The Books of the South, and Erikson owes Cook as many cover quotes as the guy wants, forever. The Cook books are more singularly focused, and in that sense are much easier to pick up and put down. Erikson's much more rewarding if you can barrel through in a few marathon sessions.

RE: Esselmont.
He's less talented that either writer. Night of Knives was nevertheless pretty good. I own Return of the Crimson Guard, but haven't cracked it open yet.
post #4 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeball Kid View Post

TTH ranks in the middle of the series for me, with Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, and Midnight Tides being a trifecta of badass that cannot be topped.
Those are my three favorite as well, with the Bone Hunters bringing up 4th place.

The humor I found in TTH had less to do with the story and more as asides, much like Pratchett.
post #5 of 81
Let me know about Return of the Crimson Guard. The few appearances these guys were awesome, but I heard the author ain't that great. I'll see.

As for the Jordan vibe: bullshit. Erikson knows where he's going and even when it's less than his other books it's still good. Overall, the series is still going strong.

Ball is right: Erickson's dad died during it, and it shows. Compared to Reaper's Gale, it's bleak as hell. But it's the setup for the last leg of the series, and since the next one is mainly setup in Letheras, we have the last book wrapping the entire setup so to speak.Also loved the Imass curveball. One of the best moment, beside the whole Dragnipur happening, was Cutter's "duel". Too bad for Murrilio.

Loved to see Whiskyjack back. But now, the God of Death is no more, so who's gonna replace him? And Picker is alerting the gods of wars, and oh surprise, Karsa Orlong is among them.

You're right to compare Kallor and Jaime Lannister. Both were unlikable, and yet, what a great characterization he did. What Erickson did with Karsa Orlong in 2 books, he did in a few chapter with Kallor. Especially since he offed Whiskyjack...

One thing that I like is the sort of foreshadowing happening with the title of the next book. It's been happening since Gardens of the Moon, and it's always fun to spot it (the next is Dust of Dreams, from the moon that broke up in the novel). And the last book is called The Crippled God...

EDIT: Favorites: Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, The Bonehunters, Midnight Tides.

The Chain of Dogs events in DHG is the best. Memories is pure carnage. The Bonehunters seemed long, until the whole underground trek made sense. And Tides has Tehol Beddict, the funniest character of the series with his servant.
post #6 of 81
Besides Tehol, Tides also has the best, stand up and cheer, "YEAH, motherfucker!" ending of the series. Got the book right here...spoilers, obviously...

Quote:
Withal stared at the man.
Who grimaced, then said, 'Aye, Withal of Meckros, you pray hard enough...'
'I knew it.'
'Now, get going. You'll find a calm way through.'
'And you, Mael?'
'I'll drop in later. I've things for you to do, Withal. But for now,' he faced inland, 'I am going to beat a god senseless.'
post #7 of 81
Also, just to give you an idea of how gaga I am over this series, I always order the books from Canada, even though they cost twice as much, because Canada gets them sooner, and because the US cover art is utter shit.
post #8 of 81
Ahh.. the price we pay for being British subjects....

The whole Coltaine storyline was majestic. Erickson let his characters speak of him, never describing him directly. The Chain of Dogs was where we got a glimpse of how different Erickson was compared to Martin and others. And the nod to Coltaine being reincarnated in Toll the Hound, where the Wickans are led by Bult, and not him.

And the Seguleh... sheesh...
post #9 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
As for the Jordan vibe: bullshit. Erikson knows where he's going and even when it's less than his other books it's still good. Overall, the series is still going strong.
Thanks for your quick dismissal without requesting any follow-up. Great way to ferment discussion on a discussion board.

Also, thanks for the spoilers in your same post even though I clearly wrote that I was only 175 pages into Toll.
post #10 of 81
Thread Starter 
What about BAUCHELAIN AND KORBAL BROACH: THE COLLECTED STORIES VOLUME ONE (Hardcover)?
post #11 of 81
Out of print. Want to read, but won't pay $75 on ebay for the privilege. I can wait for a more reasonably priced collection (it's gotta happen eventually).
post #12 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBarr View Post
Thanks for your quick dismissal without requesting any follow-up. Great way to ferment discussion on a discussion board.

Also, thanks for the spoilers in your same post even though I clearly wrote that I was only 175 pages into Toll.
There's a spoiler warning right in the 1st post.

But seriously, you compared someone to Jordan. That's the lowest of the low. It's was shit from day one, and went down from there. Sorry to be blunt, but unless you have a way to explain how the series is going down, my response is appropriate. The Song of Ice and Fire may pull a Jordan, even more so if the old bastard die before finishing it.
post #13 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay f View Post
What about BAUCHELAIN AND KORBAL BROACH: THE COLLECTED STORIES VOLUME ONE (Hardcover)?
It's alright. Like the titular characters, it's funny, but hardly indispensable. How's Night of Knives? Do we learn anything great? Worth getting?
post #14 of 81
Thread Starter 
I haven't read any Jordan, are his digressions like Tolkien where you get a lot of detail that isn't necessary or more like Stephen King, details about nothing and characters that die right after all the detail?

TTH has a lot of information that doesn't seem to go anywhere. I don't need plots and story line spoon fed to me, but I like to have a bit more insight as to what the point is.

Although this is a spoiler thread we may want to at least either black out or Block anything major in the future. Sorry Giolo.

I have stumbled upon a few spoilers when looking up information in the past. Now, I have Gracie look stuff up for me.
post #15 of 81
I'm fairly sure what seems like useless info will help understand book 9. Mind you, I can't tell, but Erickson said that the last 3 books are the beginning of the "end", even if there won't be a clear cut ending, much like there wasn't a clear cut beginning.
post #16 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
There's a spoiler warning right in the 1st post.

But seriously, you compared someone to Jordan. That's the lowest of the low. It's was shit from day one, and went down from there. Sorry to be blunt, but unless you have a way to explain how the series is going down, my response is appropriate. The Song of Ice and Fire may pull a Jordan, even more so if the old bastard die before finishing it.
Yeah, I read jay's first post and when referring to spoilers within I took it as in general about the series not the newest book out there (especially since he didn't go into any great detail about Toll), but hey if that makes you feel better then so be it.

Jordan? Lowest of the low? Hyperbole much? There are many sci-fi/fantasy authors out there MUCH worse than Jordan. Considering that I have liked the series as a whole and only made that comment after reading the first 175 pages of Toll (which feels like it is meandering) I think you need to chill out.
post #17 of 81
Thread Starter 
Unless the wait for book 9 or 10 gets to be too long, I'm going to wait for all of the I.C.E. and Korbal until after the series is finished.

Though it appears the The Return of the Crimson Guard sounds like it might be important. It happens or at least is related to events that take place in TTH.
post #18 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBarr View Post
Yeah, I read jay's first post and when referring to spoilers within I took it as in general about the series not the newest book out there (especially since he didn't go into any great detail about Toll), but hey if that makes you feel better then so be it.

Jordan? Lowest of the low? Hyperbole much? There are many sci-fi/fantasy authors out there MUCH worse than Jordan. Considering that I have liked the series as a whole and only made that comment after reading the first 175 pages of Toll (which feels like it is meandering) I think you need to chill out.
I'm pretty relaxed. The thing about fantasy is there's a unbelievable amount of trash. Sure, there's worse than The Wheel of Time, but most of it is unknown (the Eragon books, maybe?). Jordan was highly praised, and hyped. For nothing. You might as well read Dragonlance and call it innovative.
post #19 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay f View Post
Unless the wait for book 9 or 10 gets to be too long, I'm going to wait for all of the I.C.E. and Korbal until after the series is finished.

Though it appears the The Return of the Crimson Guard sounds like it might be important. It happens or at least is related to events that take place in TTH.
Me too. Return seems to take place right after The Bonehunters, as Lassen has trouble maintaining the Empire, and the CG comes crashing in.
post #20 of 81
Night of Knives is worth the read, IMHO. Good insight into Kellanved and Dancer and their ascension. It's a quick, focused read. ICE, to his credit, does not try to imitate Erikson's style. But he doesn't have much of his own yet either. It's a decent first novel, but if I read it with no knowledge of the fictional universe, I don't think I would be as kind.
post #21 of 81
I'll put it on my wishlist then. After Crimson Guard.
post #22 of 81
Dust of Dreams just made it's way from the UK to my grubby hands. Squee!

Also, this has to be the first time that a Dramatis Personae ever made me LOL (Midnight Tides spoiler):
THE LETHERII
King Tehol
Chacellor Bugg
Ceda Bugg
Treasurer Bugg
(end spoiler)
AWESOME.
post #23 of 81
Yeah, I just glanced at it last week. More Bugg is ALWAYS welcomed.

I still giggle when I remember the scene where Tehol is drinking "tea", and ask what it's made off, only to be replyed by Bugg that it's infused with used socks. He then proceed to ask the color of the said socks.
post #24 of 81
Thread Starter 
Eyeball - Is that a Mass Market or Trade paperback and where did you order it.
I am seeing a Jan 2010 release date here.
post #25 of 81
Hardcover from amazon.co.uk. Expensive, but Erikson's worth it.
post #26 of 81
From Amazon UK. I had issues with ordering from Canada so going to the UK route too. How long did it take for you to get Eyeball?
post #27 of 81
About a week and a half, I think. Not too bad
post #28 of 81
Huge Erikson fan here

The last 150 pages of Dust of Dreams is probably one of the best things I have read in a long long time
post #29 of 81
I'm only 50 pages in, and it feels like Erickson's stepped up his already impressive game for the big finish. While the plotting of Reaper's Gale and Toll the Hounds felt a little adrift compared to the amazing stretch of Deadhouse Gates-The Bonehunters, Erikson's prose has steadily improved with each novel.

I know it's been said, but the guy really deserves respect for cranking these out every year and keeping the quality intact. Especially with a series this complex, it's frankly kind of mind-boggling.

I'm hoping to have more time this weekend to really dive into DoD.
post #30 of 81
Holy fuck is Dust of Dreams a tough read.

Man, I know it's half a book, and I'll reserve my final judgment until the end of the Crippled God. It a Erickson book, so there a quality to it, but I can understand some people bitching about it. Because it's half the story...

Fuck me if the bleakness of this is making Toll the Hounds look like the Teletubbies. But it's good.
post #31 of 81
Just finished Dust of Dreams tonight. Holy shit. HOLY SHIT.

The last 100 pages was a constant stream of what-the-fuck, some of it unvelieveably awesome, some of it gut-wrenchingly hard, and some of it both, all suffused with Erikson's pitch-black humor. Sucker-punched like you wouldn't believe. There's a reason it's The Malazan Book of the *Fallen*. [spoilers]If/when Erikson kills off Mappo, I don't think I'll be able to handle it very well. And the stuff that happens to Tool in this book...holy christ....[/spoliers]

That said, it felt like there was a bit too much spinning of wheels in the midsection. It's not quite Harry-Potter-camps-in-the-woods-for-200-pages bad, but still kind of a slog.

It's going to be a long year waiting for the last one. Despite Erikson's assurances in the foreward, it sure feels like a cliffhanger to me.
post #32 of 81
I haven't read the last one (haven't been willing to pay for UK shipping yet). But the one thing you can know is it will be out about a year from now. As Erikson unlike other fantasy authors you can name, works on his books and doesn't say watch football all day.
post #33 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeball Kid View Post
Just finished Dust of Dreams tonight. Holy shit. HOLY SHIT.
I just finished it. Yeah, I know. I had to put the book down because I had some reservations at the public library ( Black Company and some Stross novels) had a rrived, so I put Dust on hold, as I thought Company would be interesting. It was ok I guess, but Erickson is so vastly superior it was sad. I get where Erickson get his stiyle, but Cook's tale is kinda boring. OS I re-read Dust from the start again.

So, Dust of Dreams. Holy Shit ain't the word for it. And it's half a book, but it's still a fun read. It's extremely sad, grim and exhausting by moment [spoilers] Tool and Hetan's fate, mainly [/spoliers], but again Erickson's humor makes the book less heavy than it is. The whole stuff with [spoilers] The Elder Gods alliance is neat, and I can't wait to see where is goes[/spoilers]. Glad that Kalyth wasn't another Mayhbe. bitching through the whole tale.

And yeah, it's a cliffhanger ending. Can't wait for the finishing book to come out! Meanwhile, I'll order Crimson Guard, Knives, and wait also for the new Esselmont novels.

Stonewielder is about the Korelri campaign, with Greymane and the Stormriders and all. There's a Darujisthan novels coming to cap the Toll the Hounds threads. A novel set in Jakaruku, and another one set in Assail. Yeah. The place where [spoilers][color=black] there's supposedly Human Tyrants kicking the T'lan Imass in the face, where Silvwerfox and her Imass are gone to[color=black][spoilers].

And that's without a so-called Toblakai Trilogy, and a rumored Karkhanas trilogy as well.
post #34 of 81
Thread Starter 
I am posting this without having read the thread since the Dust Of Dreams was released everywhere but here. I know I could have ordered it earlier, but it actually worked out for me.

Anyway, the point, I wanted to review some of the story lines leading up to DoD but after being spoiled before the last book I'm afraid to try and look up what is covered.

Would one of you generous readers list a couple of the story lines that are covered? The book comes out next Tuesday around these parts.

I know it's ridiculous, but thanks.
post #35 of 81
I'll PM you.
post #36 of 81
Thread Starter 
Got 'em. Thanks Martin.

I wasn't spoiled on the new book, but I was on ToTH, which is why i was afraid to look this up myself.
post #37 of 81
I finished The Black Company this week and I can really see the influence of Glen Cook in Malazan but I just like Erickson and this massive world that he's built much more then Cook's stuff. I started the Malazan saga with Night of Knives by Esselmont and then moved on to Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates. I think I'll be ready for Memories of Ice soon. More Whiskeyjack!
post #38 of 81
I too recently read the Black Company books. I get where Erickson got his tyle, but the Company books were dull. As in not really well written. No momentum at all. As in, I wish the White Rose was being raped on the 1st page by a flying carpet.
post #39 of 81
Man. DoD is fucking dense. My one gripe with sprawling epics, keeping up with the threads/plots/twists. Slow going for me.
post #40 of 81
Plod through. The last 150 pages or so pay off in a big way.
post #41 of 81
Oh, I will make it through. Part of me is consciously slowing it down so I can savor the next to last book. Still, some of the exposition scenes have me running to the wiki to verify things said.
post #42 of 81
I wanted to post some random thoughts through 400-something pages of Memories of Ice but I don't have my book with me so we'll see how this goes. So spoilers and apologizes for the off spelling.

-Loved "The Mortal Sword of Fener" using his sword to bitch slap the Jaghut herald of Hood followed by "Hello Jaghut." from a T'Lan Imass.

-I love the T'Lan Imass.

-What the hell is Toc the Younger thinking running off with the Pannions? A seriously bad plan.

-The part where Quick Ben is being rescued by the clay guardian of Burn(?), really made me sad. Something about that scene was just really painful.

That's all I can think of for now. More random thought to follow.
post #43 of 81
Damn. I'll need to re-read that series once I'm through with the main book, after The Crippled God.

And Howard, it really pays off, just like all Erickson's books.
post #44 of 81
Of all the many, many characters who get the short end of the stick in this series, Toc the Younger may be the one who suffers the most. That poor bastard.

After Dust of Dreams, I hope that he and Tool get some sort of closure. Their interaction was heartbreaking.
post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeball Kid View Post
Of all the many, many characters who get the short end of the stick in this series, Toc the Younger may be the one who suffers the most. That poor bastard.

After Dust of Dreams, I hope that he and Tool get some sort of closure. Their interaction was heartbreaking.
Not shit. Both keeps getting hammered. And I have a idea where Tool and Hetan's path are going in the last book. SPOILERS: She's dead, but she'll be the one to stop Tool from his path of destruction he started at the end of Dust of Dream. Either her or his kids. And Hetan's fate? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK. END SPOILERS
post #46 of 81
Well I finally finished MoI and Erickson is killing me. There is just so much that I do not understand and so many "What were they thinking?!" moments from characters:

-Itkovian & the T'Lan Imass right before the final battle.

-Silverfox not explaining anything regarding the Mhybe. I really hated the Mhybe sub-plot.

-Whiskeyjack and his damned leg.

-Whiskeyjack & Dujek getting to Coral ahead of everyone.

But I still love the series so far. As long as the sense of humor remains, I'll be happy. And the great battles.
post #47 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisTheCheese View Post
Well I finally finished MoI and Erickson is killing me. There is just so much that I do not understand and so many "What were they thinking?!" moments from characters:

-Itkovian & the T'Lan Imass right before the final battle.
The redemption thing? Itkovian had to do it if I remember well.

-Silverfox not explaining anything regarding the Mhybe. I really hated the Mhybe sub-plot. That was crap.

-Whiskeyjack and his damned leg. It was supposed to be I guess. Even Mallet asked why he never did anything.
-Whiskeyjack & Dujek getting to Coral ahead of everyone.
Occupy the ground first. I remember it being adressed

But I still love the series so far. As long as the sense of humor remains, I'll be happy. And the great battles.
Beside the fucking Mhybe, all of these points were adressed. As for Whiskyjack, it really sucked, but Erickson pulled a good Whedon right there.

Now prepare for Mr. Badass himself, Karsa Orlong.
post #48 of 81
I'm only up through Bonehunters so I tread very carefully in this thread. But I'll be damned if I don't utterly love this series. Erickson really nails many of the characters and between his stunning action scenes and some really, really well done humor the books are fantastic. There are times where I get a wee bit confused when he throws in a god or character out of the blue or goes off on a weird tangent of some previously unknown Warren or Hold, but all in all the books are fantastic.

And I'm sure everyone agrees with me but it amazes me how he can crank these out while Martin can't finish a chapter in 2 years. Just proves that either Erickson is a helluva lot more talented, focused, or both than RR Martin.
post #49 of 81
I'm going to wait until my trip out of town in June before I start House of Chains. Forgot to mention it before but the Grey Swords were great. That's sort of a stupid comment since Erickson has a real gift for characters. Most of them are great.

Back to MoI: SPOILERS

-If itkovian had waited to do what he did with the T'Lan Imass, so many lives would have been saved. I know why Erickson chose to write the scene that way. Otherwise the T'Lan Imass would have just wiped out the K'ell hunters and there would have been very little drama to the final battle. Except for the Bridgeburners, that was enough drama and loss for me.
post #50 of 81
Thread Starter 
Just finished DoD. What a fucking slog. Personally my least favorite of the series so far.
From pages upon pages of describing feelings to the constant introduction of new factions and POVs, this book felt like 90% filler.

It seems to me that at a time when he should be bringing story lines to a close he’s starting new ones.
I understand his style and I understand that this is basically part one of the end, but the end this book was just not satisfying enough to justify 80% of what came before it.

Dunno, maybe I’m just not paying enough attention. His epic scale seems to have gotten a bit too epic and has begun collapse in on itself.
Don’t get me wrong. This is still my favorite series going at the moment, but this felt like a huge misstep to me. Painful at times.
I’m still looking forward to the final book, just not as much as I was.
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