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2008 Presidential Election Post Mortem - Page 2

post #51 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
My wife mentioned that he looked relieved to me as well. His concession speech was superb, and the crowd that was there to hear him give it made me sick with their boos and cat-calls directed towards Obama.
I can't remember what network it was on as I was continuously switching back and forth, but one of them said there had been rumblings that McCain had actually said to staffers and/or advisors "Maybe it's time for him [Obama] to be President." or something to that effect. I think he'd known for a while that this was over and he's not a dumb man. I thought his speech was a good one and it was the one he needed to give. The fucking cavemen in the crowd hurt it a little, but I definetly agree that he looked like a man that was just glad it was over.
post #52 of 149
The Orlando Sentinel has had to restart the presses to print more copies of today's edition, as it has sold every single copy. There aren't even any available in the newsroom.
post #53 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
I think he'd known for a while that this was over and he's not a dumb man.
If you saw him on Saturday Night Live last Saturday (and on Monday's special), you would have seen a defeated man. He all but acknowledged his imminent defeat with some very self-aware dialog.
post #54 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
The Orlando Sentinel has had to restart the presses to print more copies of today's edition, as it has sold every single copy. There aren't even any available in the newsroom.
Yeah, I can't find any copies of the LAT anywhere.
post #55 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
My wife mentioned that he looked relieved to me as well. His concession speech was superb, and the crowd that was there to hear him give it made me sick with their boos and cat-calls directed towards Obama.
We haven't heard the last from these failed abortions that supported McCain. The Straight Talker is now the Dr. Frankenstein of American politics, creator of a beast he cannot control. I absolutely give him credit for a gracious concession speech that reminded me why people ever liked the man in the first place. It was a genuinely, surprisingly dignified and classy display, rendered utterly empty by everything else that fell out of the man's mouth over the past few months. You could practically hear the rifles cocking and the nooses being tied in the audience as he spoke (if it wasn't for the booing drowning it out). The monster cannot simply be switched off when its perceived usefulness has come to an end. That, I fear, will be McCain's ultimate legacy.
post #56 of 149
Poll on Sean Hannity's site today:

Quote:
With ACORN fraud, military ballots missing, and people voting more than once do you believe that Obama would have won this election without all those situations?
It's split 50-50 right now. Keep holding on to that dream, Sean!
post #57 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie-wanker View Post
We haven't heard the last from these failed abortions that supported McCain. The Straight Talker is now the Dr. Frankenstein of American politics, creator of a beast he cannot control. I absolutely give him credit for a gracious concession speech that reminded me why people ever liked the man in the first place. It was a genuinely, surprisingly dignified and classy display, rendered utterly empty by everything else that fell out of the man's mouth over the past few months. You could practically hear the rifles cocking and the nooses being tied in the audience as he spoke (if it wasn't for the booing drowning it out). The monster cannot simply be switched off when his perceived usefulness has come to an end. That, I fear, will be McCain's ultimate legacy.
THIS.
It was a good speech, probably the best and most forceful one he could give under the emotional circumstances, but...

...but I wish he had been more forceful in quieting the boos. He had an opportunity to go off-script and do more than just say "please" and make shushing gestures with his hands. It was unrealistic to expect him to viciously scold the crowd, but he had a real chance to maybe, just maybe, inspire some introspection in those people and make them feel just a little bit bad for their disrespect.
post #58 of 149
So how are the news sites covering things? Well, CBS goes hopeful:



MSNBC gets analytical:



CNN turns to joyful iReporters:



And FOX ... just keeps on being FOX:

post #59 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie-wanker View Post
We haven't heard the last from these failed abortions that supported McCain. The Straight Talker is now the Dr. Frankenstein of American politics, creator of a beast he cannot control. I absolutely give him credit for a gracious concession speech that reminded me why people ever liked the man in the first place. It was a genuinely, surprisingly dignified and classy display, rendered utterly empty by everything else that fell out of the man's mouth over the past few months. You could practically hear the rifles cocking and the nooses being tied in the audience as he spoke (if it wasn't for the booing drowning it out). The monster cannot simply be switched off when its perceived usefulness has come to an end. That, I fear, will be McCain's ultimate legacy.
Personally, I'd like to think that the OLD McCain, the one that I really liked and admired back in 2000, will re-emerge. I'd like to think that he will buy his soul back from the zealots that now run the GOP from the far right. I'd like to think that he uses this opportunity to reclaim the GOP for those of us who have been utterly and completely disgusted with what's happened in the past 8 years and beyond.

We'll see what happens. This could be a tremendous opportunity for the moderate Republicans to enact a massive cleaning-of-the-house, but this opportunity must be seized NOW.
post #60 of 149
The problem is that McCain lost, so it would be difficult for him to have any real control of the party.
post #61 of 149
Control? No. He can still have a tremendous amount of influence, however. He's still incredibly popular amongst the moderates and those that remember what he once was and once stood for. The failure of his candidacy should be a mandate to the far-right zealots that enough is enough, and I'd love to see McCain be the one to deliver that message.

Bah, it won't happen.
post #62 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
The problem is that McCain lost, so it would be difficult for him to have any real control of the party.
True, but the Republican party has basically no leaders right now. They'll defer to him by default.
post #63 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
The problem is that McCain lost, so it would be difficult for him to have any real control of the party.
Both Gore and Kerry wield a considerable amount of influence within the Democratic party and they both lost.
post #64 of 149
Fascinating map on the front page of the NY Times website.

Check out Slide #2: Counties that voted more Republican in '08 than '04.



Arizona and Alaska, chalk up to the fact that they're candidates' home states.

Southern Louisiana, Katrina evacuation depleted the Democratic base.

Everything else...well, I'm not sure that we can definitively say this is the map of extreme racism in America, but then again, can you think of any other possible reason a county would have voted more Democratic in '04 than this year?
post #65 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBarr View Post
Both Gore and Kerry wield a considerable amount of influence within the Democratic party and they both lost.
Democrats are a little more forgiving of their losers than Republicans. Dole was a nonentity after he lost.
post #66 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
Democrats are a little more forgiving of their losers than Republicans. Dole was a nonentity after he lost.
Can't wait to see McCain's Pepsi and Viagra ads.
post #67 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trav McGee View Post
Can't wait to see McCain's Pepsi and Viagra ads.
"AT LEAST I DON'T DRINK COKE LIKE A TROLLOP, YOU CUNT!"
post #68 of 149
Did you notice the awkward moment between Mac And Palinto right after his speech?
post #69 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitch Leave View Post
Did you notice the awkward moment between Mac And Palinto right after his speech?
Like I said in another thread (this one? God, I can't remember) it'll be interesting to see how many McPalin staffers spill the beans on the internal politics of that campaign here in the near future. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't unbelievably curious.
post #70 of 149
....so whats this shit i'm hearing about 401k's?
post #71 of 149
Newsweek has their election behind the scenes issue tomorrow. Highlights:

* The Obama campaign was provided with reports from the Secret Service showing a sharp and disturbing increase in threats to Obama in September and early October, at the same time that many crowds at Palin rallies became more frenzied. Michelle Obama was shaken by the vituperative crowds and the hot rhetoric from the GOP candidates. "Why would they try to make people hate us?" Michelle asked a top campaign aide.
* On the Sunday night before the last debate, McCain's core group of advisers—Steve Schmidt, Rick Davis, adman Fred Davis, strategist Greg Strimple, pollster Bill McInturff and strategy director Sarah Simmons—met to decide whether to tell McCain that the race was effectively over, that he no longer had a chance to win. The consensus in the room was no, not yet, not while he still had "a pulse."
* The Obama campaign's New Media experts created a computer program that would allow a "flusher"—the term for a volunteer who rounds up nonvoters on Election Day—to know exactly who had, and had not, voted in real time. They dubbed it Project Houdini, because of the way names disappear off the list instantly once people are identified as they wait in line at their local polling station.
* Palin launched her attack on Obama's association with William Ayers, the former Weather Underground bomber, before the campaign had finalized a plan to raise the issue. McCain's advisers were working on a strategy that they hoped to unveil the following week, but McCain had not signed off on it, and top adviser Mark Salter was resisting.
* McCain also was reluctant to use Obama's incendiary pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, as a campaign issue. The Republican had set firm boundaries: no Jeremiah Wright; no attacking Michelle Obama; no attacking Obama for not serving in the military. McCain balked at an ad using images of children that suggested that Obama might not protect them from terrorism. Schmidt vetoed ads suggesting that Obama was soft on crime (no Willie Hortons). And before word even got to McCain, Schmidt and Salter scuttled a "celebrity" ad of Obama dancing with talk-show host Ellen DeGeneres (the sight of a black man dancing with a lesbian was deemed too provocative).
* Obama was never inclined to choose Sen. Hillary Clinton as his running mate, not so much because she had been his sometime bitter rival on the campaign trail, but because of her husband. Still, as Hillary's name came up in veep discussions, and Obama's advisers gave all the reasons why she should be kept off the ticket, Obama would stop and ask, "Are we sure?" He needed to be convinced one more time that the Clintons would do more harm than good. McCain, on the other hand, was relieved to face Sen. Joe Biden as the veep choice, and not Hillary Clinton, whom the McCain camp had truly feared.
* McCain was dumbfounded when Congressman John Lewis, a civil-rights hero, issued a press release comparing the GOP nominee with former Alabama governor George Wallace, a segregationist infamous for stirring racial fears. McCain had devoted a chapter to Lewis in one of his books, "Why Courage Matters," and had so admired Lewis that he had once taken his children to meet him.
* On the night she officially lost the Democratic nomination, Hillary Clinton enjoyed a long and friendly phone conversation with McCain. Clinton was actually on better terms with McCain than she was with Obama. Clinton and McCain had downed shots together on Senate junkets; they regarded each other as grizzled veterans of the political wars and shared a certain disdain for Obama as flashy and callow.
* At the GOP convention in St. Paul, Palin was completely unfazed by the boys' club fraternity she had just joined. One night, Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter went to her hotel room to brief her. After a minute, Palin sailed into the room wearing nothing but a towel, with another on her wet hair. She told them to chat with her laconic husband, Todd. "I'll be just a minute," she said.
* The debates unnerved both candidates. When he was preparing for them during the Democratic primaries, Obama was recorded saying, "I don't consider this to be a good format for me, which makes me more cautious. I often find myself trapped by the questions and thinking to myself, 'You know, this is a stupid question, but let me … answer it.' So when Brian Williams is asking me about what's a personal thing that you've done [that's green], and I say, you know, 'Well, I planted a bunch of trees.' And he says, 'I'm talking about personal.' What I'm thinking in my head is, 'Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I f---ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective'."
post #72 of 149
Quote:
The debates unnerved both candidates. When he was preparing for them during the Democratic primaries, Obama was recorded saying, "I don't consider this to be a good format for me, which makes me more cautious. I often find myself trapped by the questions and thinking to myself, 'You know, this is a stupid question, but let me … answer it.' So when Brian Williams is asking me about what's a personal thing that you've done [that's green], and I say, you know, 'Well, I planted a bunch of trees.' And he says, 'I'm talking about personal.' What I'm thinking in my head is, 'Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I f---ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective'."

This is a man I can stand behind!
post #73 of 149
"z
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBarr View Post
Both Gore and Kerry wield a considerable amount of influence within the Democratic party and they both lost.
True, but I'm afraid the Reps are just going to dismiss him as a "RINO" anyways. They're going to blame the loss for him not being a "true conservative" and push him to the corner.

I hope I'm wrong.
post #74 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
"z

True, but I'm afraid the Reps are just going to dismiss him as a "RINO" anyways. They're going to blame the loss for him not being a "true conservative" and push him to the corner.

I hope I'm wrong.
Nothing would please me more than for McCain to essentially tell the zealots in the GOP to FUCK OFF.
post #75 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
My wife mentioned that he looked relieved to me as well. His concession speech was superb, and the crowd that was there to hear him give it made me sick with their boos and cat-calls directed towards Obama.
A great speech, and the only compelling public oratory I saw him offer over the last year.
post #76 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth
and the crowd that was there to hear him give it made me sick with their boos and cat-calls directed towards Obama.
See, maybe I was losing my mind or projecting, but I thought a majority of the cat-calls came when Palin got a mention.
post #77 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
See, maybe I was losing my mind or projecting, but I thought a majority of the cat-calls came when Palin got a mention.
Not at all; as I recall, they went nuts when she was mentioned. All of the negativity was purely directed at Obama.
post #78 of 149
Picking Hillary would have most certainly led to McCain picking a different running mate, possibly Lieberman, and we could have had a very different outcome last night.
post #79 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
Not at all; as I recall, they went nuts when she was mentioned. All of the negativity was purely directed at Obama.
That's what I saw/heard, too. I even heard a couple of scattered "We Want Sarah!"s during the latter part of the speech.
post #80 of 149
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/...is_it.php#more

Voices from the right paint a picture of what happened last night. Can't agree.
post #81 of 149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Picking Hillary would have most certainly led to McCain picking a different running mate, possibly Lieberman, and we could have had a very different outcome last night.
Lieberman was never on the table. Actually he was on the table but he would have never survived the convention. I think if Romney was chosen as VP, we would have had a race since Mitt could have secured the West for McCain and offered a way in to the economic dialogue for McCain. Something that just wasn't possible with Palin or Joe the Plumber.

I agree that Obama should have made a stop in TX during the general election campaign. I didn't realize TX was only 800K from going blue. That's some progress there....
post #82 of 149
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_141609.html

Another collection of right wing voices. The links are not quotes... that confused me. They are Jason Linkins' attempt at humor.
post #83 of 149
Probably deserves its own thread, but anyone want to hazard a guess as to what form the Republican party will take in the upcoming years?
post #84 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
Probably deserves its own thread, but anyone want to hazard a guess as to what form the Republican party will take in the upcoming years?
It's going to split two ways. There will be the intellectuals on one-side: Andrew Sullivan, Peggy Noonan, et al. who will call for soul-searching, reflection and a remaking of their values and brand.

The other side will be Rove's: Bill Kristol, Michelle Malkin, etc. basically the same fuckwits we've been seeing for the past eight years. They're going to dig in their heels, play the victim, blame Obama for everything real and imagined, and double-down on manipulating broke white people into thinking that it's in their best interest to vote for rich people who totally love God and hate gay people.

I don't know which side will win.
post #85 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
Probably deserves its own thread, but anyone want to hazard a guess as to what form the Republican party will take in the upcoming years?
Completely splintered. Being a Republican will basically mean not being a Democrat (even moreso than now). Hopefully it will somehow be able to shed the bloodsucking parasite that is the Religious Right.
post #86 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
Probably deserves its own thread, but anyone want to hazard a guess as to what form the Republican party will take in the upcoming years?
There has to be a fracture of some kind. The alliance of social conservatives, fiscal conservatives and neoconservatives is done.

Limited government is a fine theory when things are going well, but when things go badly people don't want to hear "let's do less." The GOP is going to have to come up with actual policy ideas beyond school vouchers. McCain ran on nothing but character.

I don't know if Obama's victory is a massive move to the left. But it is a spectacular move away from the politics of division and fear. We needed Obama to do that because he is just so darn likeable the negative shit just didn't stick for anyone in the middle or left. Anything McCain and Palin threw just stuck right to them. Ditto Elizabeth Dole in NC and both Franken and Coleman in MN. Ditto Hayes in NC and maybe Goode in VA. (Do not mention Michelle Bachmann to me).

Regardless, I doubt they'll be able to get through the regrowing pains by 2010. But they'll no longer be running against Bush so the bleeding will slow down significantly, if not completely stop.
post #87 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
Probably deserves its own thread, but anyone want to hazard a guess as to what form the Republican party will take in the upcoming years?
The moderates and fiscally conservative will have a schism with the religious right element that will get ugly for several years. The fallout will be huge as everyone casts blame. Ideally, two parties will emerge from this fiasco.

ETA: MYK is spot on.
post #88 of 149
My guess is that the party coalesces around Huckabee for the next year or two. I don't know, though, they may see him as too nice.
post #89 of 149
Thread Starter 
I think we're going to see the Republican Party move further right from the mainstream than it is right now. Their reasoning is that they tried a moderate direction with McCain and that didn't work out at all so further to the right we go. I expect the party to be even more marginalized and less intellectual than it is now. Where the intellectuals go from here? Who knows? They're welcome in the Democratic party I guess.
post #90 of 149
The Daily Beast has the most awesome McCain loss post-mortem.

Quote:
Punishing the GOP was more important than winning the White House.

In losing, John McCain has fulfilled his fondest wish: revenge on the Republican Party. And he has achieved this revenge in a particularly satisfying way: by subconsciously using the party's own tactics to defeat itself.

According to T. Byram Karasu, a professor of psychiatry at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, each person has conscious and unconscious desires, and of the two, "unconscious desires are much more powerful."

...

But subconciously McCain knew a win would vindicate the Republican Party, and as a former victim of its smear campaigns, he couldn't let that happen. He undermined his own credibility by choosing the inexperienced Palin. The campaign further undercut the Palin pick when a campaign aid told the press that she was "going rogue" and a "diva," an admission of contempt for her and, by extension, for the voting bloc she represented.

Dr. Karasu said "there's a greater pleasure in the unconsciousness of revenge - it's more powerful than success." If anything, McCain's loss exemplifies that and plays in to his victim complex. He should be satisfied that his revenge on the Republican Party is perfectly complete.
I only excerpted part of it, but it's an interesting theory. This might be the one I choose to believe going forward, whether it's true or not. The rest is at the link.
post #91 of 149
Quote:
L. Brent Bozell III, President, Conservative Victory Committee:

"The liberal wing of the GOP has caused the collapse of the Republican Party. It is no longer a viable player in the political conversation, and deservedly so: For a decade it has spat on the values of Ronald Reagan. Conservatives let it be known on Tuesday in races all over the country that it has had enough with the betrayal."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYS6LYwgn6g

Fuck you, you gay bashing Bible thumping prick.
post #92 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muharulz View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYS6LYwgn6g

Fuck you, you gay bashing Bible thumping prick.
I was just going to post that very quote. Allow me to second that "Fuck You!"
post #93 of 149
I just realized that one of the people we really have to thank for Obama's win is... George Bush. If he hadn't done such a crappy job over the past few years I think McCain probably would've won. Bush's incompetence helped Obama succeed (no offense to Obama, who is a very exceptional individual).
post #94 of 149
I don't think so. Bush was doing a horrible job in 2004 and Kerry* did not have the landslide to beat the GOP dirty tricks. Obama was the right person at the right time.

*This post made no sense due to the unfortunate left out word.
post #95 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
This might be the one I choose to believe going forward, whether it's true or not.
That's probably a more self-defeating thing to say than you realize.
post #96 of 149
Hadn't Bush done blah blah, would Obama had resonated? Rethoric aside, he is indeed quite "green" and all the inexperience arguments would have stuck hadn't his hopeful nature been in stark contrast with the apocalypse of Bush's administration.
post #97 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkerbee View Post
I just realized that one of the people we really have to thank for Obama's win is... George Bush. If he hadn't done such a crappy job over the past few years I think McCain probably would've won. Bush's incompetence helped Obama succeed (no offense to Obama, who is a very exceptional individual).
I doubt McCain would have won. But the irony is not lost on me that the ridiculous situation in Florida in 2000 may be ultimately responsible for the Democratic majority of today.
post #98 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muharulz View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYS6LYwgn6g

Fuck you, you gay bashing Bible thumping prick.
God, I hope the Republican party breaks in half and the Fundies go off and make their own impotent, easily ignored party. You have no idea how much I hope for that to happen.
post #99 of 149
Wolf seems to have a man crush on the CNN studio chief who "invented" the hologram shit.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...l.reaction.cnn

And it's as I suspected: A greenscreen stage with a fixed camera rig in a half-circle and the virtual studio cams then tell the greenscreen cameras what angle they are moving right now so that the image appears somewhat correct.
This technique has no real innovative component or future use for home consumers. And I don't believe that lot's of interviews are gonna get done that way in the coming years. It's just CNN masturbating over some silly bluescreen setup they call "hologram".
post #100 of 149
Thread Starter 
One thing I see coming out of this is Republicans wanting to write more stringent finance laws with one being that presidential candidates have to use public financing for the general election. There's no way they're going to allow another Obama money machine to happen. Of course they're not in power right now but if they ever do again, that's number 1 on the list.
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