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post #51 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Class 782
1) They mean everything. They established, at a time when such ideas of equality were beyond being foreign, the very blueprint for what happened on Tuesday. Those documents have remained unchanged and are still vital and applicable to our world, one vastly different from that 230 years ago. Furthermore, it could be argued that the conflict presaging the documents and the words themselves are directly responsible for the rapidity at which the world has changed.
Their lack of application to the states ensured that they meant nothing of any practical to millions well beyond the ratification of the 14th amendment. I know Americans like to attach a sentimental value to the Constitution - I do it too - but life, liberty, and the ill-defined pursuit of happiness were nothing more than a mirage for enslaved people and victims of segregation both. What is the use of a document that prevents federal, but not state, government from running roughshod over life and liberty?

Don't take me wrong. The Bill of Rights is important, of course. But when Americans won their "freedom," it was freedom to not pay taxes to Britain. It's a joke to pretend that a document that counted millions as three-fifths of a population was some shining beacon of liberty. It is now, of course, but only because the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments helped give teeth to previously empty words, even if the federal government was lax about their enforcement until well into the 20th century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by First Class 782
3) You are correct about the 1964 election. But what has been rent asunder can be made whole.
It can, but it won't be. It's been a long time since Republicans have stood up for anything resembling a minority (besides wealthy people and a brief, and admirable, recent attempt to court hispanics), and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. In reality, the Republican split from its original intentions started much earlier than 1964, with the election of Rutherford B. Hayes, when the Republicans traded Reconstruction and a nascent civil rights movement for staying in power.
post #52 of 1753
Whoa whoa whoa whoa. There was a general consesus at the time of the 1876 election that whoever won whether it be Tilden or Rutherford that reconstruction was going end.
post #53 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibblonian View Post
Their lack of application to the states ensured that they meant nothing of any practical to millions well beyond the ratification of the 14th amendment. I know Americans like to attach a sentimental value to the Constitution - I do it too - but life, liberty, and the ill-defined pursuit of happiness were nothing more than a mirage for enslaved people and victims of segregation both. What is the use of a document that prevents federal, but not state, government from running roughshod over life and liberty?

Don't take me wrong. The Bill of Rights is important, of course. But when Americans won their "freedom," it was freedom to not pay taxes to Britain. It's a joke to pretend that a document that counted millions as three-fifths of a population was some shining beacon of liberty. It is now, of course, but only because the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments helped give teeth to previously empty words, even if the federal government was lax about their enforcement until well into the 20th century.
But those amendments were made possible by the document itself. It recognized it limitations and enabled those amendments. They would not exist without the governing document.

Back to Lincoln: he very wisely returned to both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution during the Lincoln/Douglass debates to prove his critical point. Using language directly from those documents, he made his case for the abolition of slavery, and this formed the legal and moral basis for the Emancipation Proclamation, which in term formed the basis for the amendments.

I don't believe it's a joke to see in that document, flawed as it was with the human failings of the time, that exact shining beacon of liberty. Certainly, the American Revolution and the subsequent formation of government created a storm in Europe that rapidly advanced the cause of human rights. I think it is short-sighted to judge the society and men of the 18th century by the standards of today.

We learn by our failures as keenly as we do from our successes; these documents formed a "lessons learned" (so to speak) that set the table for modern governments and citizen's rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibblonian View Post
It can, but it won't be. It's been a long time since Republicans have stood up for anything resembling a minority (besides wealthy people and a brief, and admirable, recent attempt to court hispanics), and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. In reality, the Republican split from its original intentions started much earlier than 1964, with the election of Rutherford B. Hayes, when the Republicans traded Reconstruction and a nascent civil rights movement for staying in power.
Probably the greatest tragedy of losing Lincoln was the half-assed and left to fail Reconstruction effort. Certainly, there is no way he could have overcome the rancor of the Southern loss and challenge, but he certainly could have lessened the blow and eased the transition somewhat.

I did not say the rent would be healed, only that it could be. I don't hold a lot of faith that the Republicans will learn that their beliefs are compatible with inclusivity, even bolstered by them. But they've fallen into the "us and them" trap, and it's looping like the end of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
post #54 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibblonian View Post
Their lack of application to the states ensured that they meant nothing of any practical to millions well beyond the ratification of the 14th amendment. I know Americans like to attach a sentimental value to the Constitution - I do it too - but life, liberty, and the ill-defined pursuit of happiness were nothing more than a mirage for enslaved people and victims of segregation both. What is the use of a document that prevents federal, but not state, government from running roughshod over life and liberty?

Don't take me wrong. The Bill of Rights is important, of course. But when Americans won their "freedom," it was freedom to not pay taxes to Britain. It's a joke to pretend that a document that counted millions as three-fifths of a population was some shining beacon of liberty. It is now, of course, but only because the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments helped give teeth to previously empty words, even if the federal government was lax about their enforcement until well into the 20th century.
I challenge this idea that the Declaration of Independence was not a shining beacon of liberty. It absolutely was. Your beef is with the Constitution, but again, there had to be some sort of compromise in order to bring the states united under one flag. Without some sort of protection towards the slavery states, there would have been no unity and those who died and risked their lives for freedom would have been in vain. Slavery was a horrible thing, but this country's existence would have been up in flames if the Founders forced their hand at extinguishing slavery in 1787.

EDIT: Here are the major grievances given by the Second Continental Congress to King George III.

Quote:
Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
post #55 of 1753
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/07/palin-2012-poll/

Oh sweet fancy Moses. So much for discussion of the founding documents, Republicans are making their voices heard.
post #56 of 1753
Quote:
When asked to choose among some of the GOP’s top names for their choice for the party’s 2012 presidential nominee, 64% say Palin. The next closest contenders are two former governors and unsuccessful challengers for the presidential nomination this year — Mike Huckabee of Arkansas with 12% support and Mitt Romney of Massachusetts with 11%.
Wow, they all suck. At least this all but guarantees a 2nd term for Obama.
post #57 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/07/palin-2012-poll/

Oh sweet fancy Moses. So much for discussion of the founding documents, Republicans are making their voices heard.
post #58 of 1753
If anybody gets ejected from the Party it will be the deficit spenders.

People seem to link Social Conservatives with the Religious Right and the two do not go hand in hand. Reagan was not a Christain dogmatist in the least but he was a Social Conservative. I think that's a huge distinction being missed. The GOP isn't abandoning anti-Gay marriage, anti-abortion, etc from the principles of the party. It may soften the message but they aren't going anywhere.
post #59 of 1753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/07/palin-2012-poll/

Oh sweet fancy Moses. So much for discussion of the founding documents, Republicans are making their voices heard.
If those idiots actually get their way this is what the 2008 Electoral Map is going to look like except replace the red with blue and Minnesota for Alaska.....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...mccain/?map=17
post #60 of 1753
Cruisin’ Toward 2012?

Quote:
Guess who is conveniently leaving tomorrow on a Caribbean cruise with influential conservative leaders now that the election is over and Republicans are pondering their future?

Yep, Mitt Romney, widely believed to be planning another run for president in 2012.

Mr. Romney, who sought the Republican nomination in 2008, is one of the headliners for the National Review’s post-election cruise, which departs tomorrow for six days of sun and conversation about restoring the Republican brand in fabulous ports of call in the U.S. Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico and Turks and Caicos.

It is the same annual confab that fortuitously visited Alaska last year, stopping off to meet Gov. Sarah Palin, and, thereby, helping to send her on a trajectory, according to a recent New Yorker article, to be plucked from relative obscurity to become Senator John McCain’s running mate.

Conservative elites from that cruise, along with one organized by the Weekly Standard that also visited Alaska, came away enamored by Ms. Palin, who worked hard to court them, the article said.

Ms. Palin, of course, is back in Alaska and does not have a ticket to this year’s get-together. Mr. Romney will share the stage with Fred D. Thompson and other guest speakers.

For a taste of the goings-on aboard ship, here is a description from the Web site: “This is not your typical cruise. Guests of National Review will enjoy informative seminars and extensive interaction with our guest speakers; numerous social events; dining with fellow conservatives as well as guest speakers; and a wonderful sense of sharing and camaraderie.
The cruise will include cocktail receptions, evening cigar and cognac smokers, dinners together, group excursions, and seminar sessions.”

Mr. Romney has kept busy since dropping out of the race for president, campaigning vigorously for Senator John McCain, Mr. Romney’s former rival, and raising more than $400,000 for Republican candidates and causes through his political action committee.

Eric Fehrnstrom, a spokesman for Mr. Romney, batted away the notion that the trip amounts to early preparations for 2012, pointing out the National Review endorsed Mr. Romney during the Republican primary and that “this is as much a thank you, as it is a chance to look to some of the challenges that are facing our country.”
So this is the trip that brought us Palin in 2008, I'm dying to find out what other great idea they come up with this time around.
post #61 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post


So this is the trip that brought us Palin in 2008, I'm dying to find out what other great idea they come up with this time around.
"YETI = 2012!"
post #62 of 1753
Bill Kristol is resurecting PNAC: http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/10/pnac-20/
post #63 of 1753
It begins ...

post #64 of 1753
Oh fuck you.
post #65 of 1753
post #66 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post

And the other "contenders";
http://spaldinggopstore.com/01-4-3000.htm
Some of the comments....

Quote:
What do people have against Sarah Palin? I thought she was a breath of fresh air and I just loved her. What a remarkable role model for all females and Republicans!
Quote:
12:41, that is why people who are smart enough to see through the filter of the liberal media must show the world who the real Sarah Palin is! We will see her over the coming months and years as she prepares for the Presidency in 2012.
I have a sinking feeling it's going to be Palin running in 2012. I don't know if I can handle that.

But my favorite...

Quote:

Don't worry Comrades!

Obama will concentrate power so that he will be ruler for life!

Long live Overlord Obama!
post #67 of 1753
I like the stuff they have for W.

I dare you to buy the button or t-shirt and walk to an unemployment line wearing it.

post #68 of 1753
Palin, Romney and Jeb Bush? Are they kidding? I guess the whole idea of Republican soul searching is minus the searching, and the soul. Judging from the solid rejection of Romney, the ignorant meanspiritedness of Palin and obvious poison of the Bush blood, they'd be much better off floating semi-reasonable people, like the governor of Florida or Jindal or something.
post #69 of 1753
You know, Crist hasn't really done anything for us here in FL. He has yet to prove himself. To be fair to Jeb, I think he was a pretty good governor, but as with Hillary (or even worse), I just can't vote for the guy because enough is enough we don't need the same families hovering around the White House anymore.
post #70 of 1753
By all accounts Jeb is a lot more engaged and moderate than W. But seriously, that name isn't going far in politics now.
post #71 of 1753
they just need to blow it up from the inside and start over, kind of like a rebuilding year(s)
post #72 of 1753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
By all accounts Jeb is a lot more engaged and moderate than W. But seriously, that name isn't going far in politics now.
Yup, the sad thing is Jeb might be the best over all Republican out there but because of the Bush name, he's out til at least '16.
post #73 of 1753
From the liberal shores of Salon, comes an editorial about exactly what this thread is also... about.

In order to keep this something of a real post, I agree with much of what the opinion piece has to say since it's similar to the popular sentiment in this thread but from a slightly bigger perspective. The party has to let go of its base and run obscure in the wilderness for a few years to regroup, or become a regional party of social conservatives.

Most importantly, it touches on how there is very little common ground between the fractured conservative coalition, which has resulted in a circular firing squad amongst the remaining factions. The big misread of the 2008 election is that somehow it was all Obama's cult of personality that won him the election, but the truth is that his supporters were united in his agenda.

Any Republican mentioned in this thread, no matter how charismatic, will not be able to rebuild the Republican party coalition in its current form.
post #74 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
From the liberal shores of Salon, comes an editorial about exactly what this thread is also... about.
Interesting article. And it is kind of scary actually. It is funny to see this party eating itself right now. But while all the bemusement and mocking of these wingnuts is more than understandable and good for some laughs I don´t know if I would like this development in the long run.

From an outside point of view the implosion of this party without any alternatives on the horizon is far from the best thing that can happen to a democracy. As much as I hope for a successful and lasting presidency of Obama and the democratic Party they should not have the sole playing field of politics alone. And that is what this article among others and most commentaries here seem to imply. But a well-working Democracy needs competition of Ideas and Ideals. Otherwise it is dead on arrival.

But it is sure as hell interesting to watch over the next years.
post #75 of 1753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
From the liberal shores of Salon, comes an editorial about exactly what this thread is also... about.

In order to keep this something of a real post, I agree with much of what the opinion piece has to say since it's similar to the popular sentiment in this thread but from a slightly bigger perspective. The party has to let go of its base and run obscure in the wilderness for a few years to regroup, or become a regional party of social conservatives.

Most importantly, it touches on how there is very little common ground between the fractured conservative coalition, which has resulted in a circular firing squad amongst the remaining factions. The big misread of the 2008 election is that somehow it was all Obama's cult of personality that won him the election, but the truth is that his supporters were united in his agenda.

Any Republican mentioned in this thread, no matter how charismatic, will not be able to rebuild the Republican party coalition in its current form.
Interesting article. I agree the Republicans aren't learning the right lessons from this campaign. It seems they looked at McCain's failed campaign and said "That. And alot more of it.". If the party is in as much disarray as the article suggests, I imagine an up until now minor party will be chosen by some of the brainier and forward thinking Republicans and call that party their new home. The best fit would be the Libertarian party I would think. Or a third party coalesces around Palin. Whatever the case, it will be interesting to watch.
post #76 of 1753
Crist extended poll hours to allow working people to vote without paying the "poll tax" of taking a day off work to wait in line for 5 hours. Compare that to Jeb's demonstrated respect for actual voting. I don't know much about Crist beyond what I've seen him do in the last month but to give any credence to a Bush as a post-Bush political figure (not saying you are, ElCap, just generally) is like treating cancer with an aspirin.

I haven't read the Salon piece but I do think the form it will take ultimately will be the Goldwater conservative stance. In this noxious post-Rove/Cheney/Bush environment, a genuine acknowledgment that the US is a nation of laws with a Constitution would at least give the GOP back some form of integrity.

I hope though that Obama looks into the Sherman Anti-Trust Act because the corporate media has been an accomplice in the collective crime of the "permanent Republican majority."
post #77 of 1753
What they need to do is sink that fucking cruiseship.
post #78 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
Crist extended poll hours to allow working people to vote without paying the "poll tax" of taking a day off work to wait in line for 5 hours. Compare that to Jeb's demonstrated respect for actual voting. I don't know much about Crist beyond what I've seen him do in the last month but to give any credence to a Bush as a post-Bush political figure (not saying you are, ElCap, just generally) is like treating cancer with an aspirin.
I'm not sure if I would call Jeb a "post-Bush political figure". I don't think he should run for president just because of his last name, which is unfortunate because he would be a million times better than his brother, but that's how it is.

He did do a good job in FL, and had his act together during our disasters with hurricanes. Crist ran on fixing the mess with home insurance, no significant progress on that yet, so excuse the people of FL for not being too happy with him just because he extended early voting hours by a little bit during the last election.

They still managed to screw up the election here in Hillsborough country btw, and now are talking about buying yet another set of voting machines (that would be the 3rd iteration in the past few elections).
post #79 of 1753
Thread Starter 
Thought I'd ressurect this thread in light of Obama getting in office. If this were a biopic on the modern Republican party, I'd say we would be in the Hookers and Blow section of the movie. The evidence.....

Rush Limbaugh is the leader of the Republican Party.

Think about that. Rush Limbaugh is the brain trust of the GOP these days. It would be like Sean Penn or Michael Moore calling the shots for the Dems (which Moore kinda was in '04). They are fine periphery figures but nobody in their right mind would allow them to be front and center. The nadir of this was when a Congressman called Rush to apologize and grovel. Disgusting.

Sarah Palin is still being taken seriously

California under Arnold Schwarzenegger is broke and giving out IOU's.

Michael Steele thinks the greatest challenge to the GOP today is proper PR.

Michael Cantor puts out a video on Youtube celebrating the fact that 0 Republicans voted for the Stimulus Bill and that they're back in the saddle again.

Even though I'm a Democrat, I hate to see the GOP like this. I want a strong 2 party system and frankly, that isn't the case. One side has ideas and the other has tactics. Not good for democracy.

Edit: Not sure if Hookers and Blow is the right term. A better term would be " a dark fucking period"?
post #80 of 1753
To be fair, Arnie inherited a real mess, and the Dems in the California State Legislature are as much to blame as Arnie for the perennial mess in California.
The BUdget mess in California is like who done it in "Murder On The Orient Express":Everybody did it.
But I agree that GOP is in pitiful shape. And it is a shame, because the Dems need somebody to keep them in line.
The real problem is the old GOP formula for sucess is not working any longer, but the powers that be in the GOP quite literally are incapable of figuring out a different strategy.
I predict the Religious Right's grip on the GOP is the real problem. A lot of people like me who are basically fiscal conservatives have no where to go if we can't stomach the Fundies who call the shots in the GOP.
post #81 of 1753
It's not really Arnold's fault. The state legislature is batshit insane compounded with crazy ass state republicans that refuse to compromise on anything. Even as the state pretty much goes bankrupt they refuse to pass the budget because of their "no taxes" pledge. Sheer fuckin nonsense.
post #82 of 1753
I think it may be a long cold winter for the GOP if Limbaugh is their intellectual leader.

As a man who's voted Republican most of my life it is painful to see the GOP in the state it's in. And it's not the first time. Look back to the FDR era and you'll see the same kind Know Nothingism that spawned Palin.

It was only in the 1950's when William F Buckley founded National Review that conservatism began to acquire intellectual credibility.

After quitting/being ejected from the current National Review, David Frum decided to found his one Conservative magazine. maybe he'll be the one to bring the GOP back, but it won't be by 2012.
post #83 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
It's not really Arnold's fault. The state legislature is batshit insane compounded with crazy ass state republicans that refuse to compromise on anything. Even as the state pretty much goes bankrupt they refuse to pass the budget because of their "no taxes" pledge. Sheer fuckin nonsense.
I live in Sacramento, tell me about it.
This is an end result of the way the political parties..both of them...buy into a corrupt system of "redistricting" ..ie, Gerrymandering....the Legislative districts so that there are very few competitive districts in the state. As a result, the more extreme elements of both parties dominate becuase of "safe" districts.
Yeah, there are a bunch of crazy ass Republicans and they are to bleme for the immidiate crisis along with the stupid 2/3 majority for a budget rule. But there are also a bunch of crazy ass Dems who never met a spending bill they did not like.
post #84 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
It's not really Arnold's fault. The state legislature is batshit insane compounded with crazy ass state republicans that refuse to compromise on anything. Even as the state pretty much goes bankrupt they refuse to pass the budget because of their "no taxes" pledge. Sheer fuckin nonsense.
I live in Sacramento, tell me about it.
This is an end result of the way the political parties..both of them...buy into a corrupt system of "redistricting" ..ie, Gerrymandering....the Legislative districts so that there are very few competitive districts in the state. As a result, the more extreme elements of both parties dominate becuase of "safe" districts.
Yeah, there are a bunch of crazy ass Republicans and they are to bleme for the immidiate crisis along with the stupid 2/3 majority for a budget rule. But there are also a bunch of crazy ass Dems who never met a spending bill they did not like.
post #85 of 1753
This reminds me a bit of the 2004 postmortem when Kerry lost a virtual "gimme" election and the Democrats lost seats in both the House and the Senate. Even the Senate Minority leader got bounced. There was a lot of hand-wringing on these boards wondering if the Democratic Party was even relevant anymore. Then we get the White House and FEMA completely bumbling the Katrina response, Jack Abramoff and Duke Cunningham, Tom Foley and the pages, alienation of the conservative base through runaway spending and the McCain-Kennedy Immigration Bill, Iraq in a tailspin, Larry Craig and his "wide stance," the bursting of the housing bubble and the credit crisis, and just about everything else that went wrong over the last four years. Now we are wondering if the Republican Party is dead. There is an ebb and flow to these things. Blago, William Jefferson, tax scandals, sex scandals, unreasonable expectations for a new president, Obama's backpeddling on progressive issues, Pelosi's blatant partisanship, and so many eggs in the Stimulus basket will give the Democrats plenty of opportunities to disappoint and alienate the voters.

And Rush Limbaugh is is no ways the leader of the Republican Party. McConnell, Boehner, Cantor and others have helped galvanize and unify Congressional Republicans around their core values during the stimulus fight. GOP Governors like Sanford, Jindal, Perry, and Huntsman are making strong cases for the effectiveness of conservative principles in state governance. Michael Steele is an effective mouthpiece for the RNC (and it is very unfair to dismiss him as someone who thinks the Republicans' only problem is in public relations). The GOP's electoral fortunes will largely depend on these leaders. But it will also depend on the Democrats imploding a bit. Modern political history tells us that the party in power will eventually overreach, abuse its power, and be shown the door by the voters. It may take a few elections, but it will happen again.
post #86 of 1753
It's always interesting to hear your take, jvc. My feeling is that the dem majority will not so much overreach as sit on its hands and let the "party of no" plow over it. I'm hoping not, but that's my fear. On the other hand, lost faith in both parties could possibly make way for the rise of a more independent or progressive third party. Because I do believe the country as a whole is growing more educated on America's situation every day, and striving for more progressive solutions than have been on the table.
post #87 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Steele
We want to convey that the modern-day GOP looks like the conservative party that stands on principles. But we want to apply them to urban-suburban hip-hop settings.

It will come to the table with things that will surprise everyone - off the hook
All I can think of is the Paul Mooney quote from the Chappelle show... everybody wants to be a nubian, but nobody wants to be a nubian.
post #88 of 1753
double post fail.
post #89 of 1753
Michael Steele wants to give his party an Extreme Makeover: GOP Edition!
post #90 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by pervis42 View Post
All I can think of is the Paul Mooney quote from the Chappelle show... everybody wants to be a nubian, but nobody wants to be a nubian.
I wonder if that Michael Steele quote was as painful for him to say as it was for me to read.
post #91 of 1753
We might have a contest between Michael Steele and Roland Burris as the most embarassing Afro American politicians in the US.
post #92 of 1753

GOP at risk of becoming party in the no

Charles Mahtesian, Patrick O'Connor Charles Mahtesian, Patrick O'connor – Thu Feb 26, 4:17 am ET



Another day, another no vote.

After near-unanimous Republican congressional opposition to President Barack Obama’s stimulus package and a week dominated by headlines of GOP governors poised to reject stimulus funding, House Republicans followed up with another resounding “no” on the $410 billion omnibus spending package Wednesday.

This time, though, 16 members broke from the party line on a vote Minority Whip Eric Cantor had urged his colleagues to reject. And the cracks in the facade appear to be the first public signal of Republican rank-and-file squeamishness with a remarkably high-risk strategy that promises an uncertain return.

For Republicans, a central question looms: Is saying no to Obama’s agenda the way to get voters to say yes to an already beleaguered GOP brand?

Despite two consecutive election thrashings, and despite Obama’s high approval ratings and their own low standing, Republicans have wagered that the return to the majority is paved by unwavering opposition to further spending, an audacious bet that won’t pay out for another 21 months.

If Republicans are right, the economy will remain in tatters and voters will recognize in 2010 that the recovery was delayed by profligate Democrats and their president.

If the GOP is wrong, however, and the economy begins to show signs of life, the resistance will be easily framed as reflexive obstructionism, the last gasp of an intellectually bankrupt party.

The timing only heightens the stakes. Midterm elections are traditionally hostile to the party in power, which means Republicans will have a wind at their back for the first time in six years. But 2010 is also the election cycle that, across the nation, will begin laying the groundwork for the decennial congressional and state legislative redistricting, raising the prospect that, if Republicans are wrong, they could find themselves consigned to minority status for close to a generation.

“They just seem to be sitting back and waiting for the Democrats to come up with the plan so they can look for something to shoot at,” said House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.), who is locked in a battle with his home stategovernor, Mark Sanford, over money for unemployment insurance. “They’re making a calculated decision to just say ‘no.’”

Republicans don’t readily concede the risks inherent in their approach. In an acknowledgment of Obama’s popularity, they are carefully drawing distinctions in what exactly they oppose and trying to avoid going up against Obama’s formidable personal charisma.

“I think there is a rift between the popularity of the president and the unpopularity of Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi,” said Rep. Mark Kirk (R-Ill.). “[People] are pro-Obama, anti-stimulus.”

In some instances, Republicans also are trying to counter Obama on process, rather than on issues that may have broad popularity among their constituents. In the House, GOP leaders continue to complain that Democrats have blocked them from participating and have sought to draw contrasts with Obama’s rhetoric as he promises to tackle the massive budget deficit.

“This is fiscal responsibility week and you foist 9,000 earmarks on us?” said Kirk, who sits on the Appropriations Committee. “This seems poorly coordinated.”

The problem, of course, is that plenty of those earmarks are directed toward Republican-held districts. Indeed, anticipating a line of Democratic attack, Cantor warned his fellow Republicans on Tuesday not to “allow a $500,000 earmark or pet project to be used as a bribe for your vote on this reckless $500 billion omnibus bill,” according to the notes of someone who attended the closed-door meeting at the Capitol Hill Club.

And the distinctions between Obama and Pelosi will become harder to draw with each ensuing vote, including another later this week on an additional White House priority: housing legislation that would make it easier for bankruptcy judges to rework the terms of a primary home loan.

Only one Republican — Ohio Rep. Michael Turner, whose home state has been ravaged by the economic downturn — has signed on to the bill, and GOP leaders may whip against it when it comes to the floor later this week, members and aides said Tuesday.

The most controversial change would allow bankruptcy judges to modify mortgages for a homeowner’s primary residence. Republicans, along with their allies in the lending industry, oppose the measure because it would reduce the amount of money owed on the house. These reductions will result in higher mortgage costs for all homeowners, opponents argue.

Supporters of the change argue that this is the easiest way to keep people in their homes without committing taxpayer funds — a strategy that could save strapped homeowners and over-leveraged lenders alike by helping the housing market find its bottom.

Either way, it’s a complex issue that isn’t easily explained and again raises the risk of fostering an image of the GOP as the party of no, rather than a party of competing ideas — and as a party that is hardhearted in its approach toward the nation’s economic catastrophe.

“That’s certainly a discussion [Republicans] are having,” said Rep. Dave Reichert (R-Wash.). “Certainly people are paying attention to some of the media commentaries who are saying we are the party of no.”

Alex Isenstadt and Victoria McGrane contributed to this report.
post #93 of 1753
So it's a calculated strategy to stand by their principles no matter what. One thing that in the GOP's "Favor" : yesterday's report on people filing for unemployment seems to support their gamble
post #94 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
We might have a contest between Michael Steele and Roland Burris as the most embarassing Afro American politicians in the US.
No one will top Alan Keyes.
post #95 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
No one will top Alan Keyes.
Robert Sterling Wilson, The Black Fuhrer of Harlem would like to have a word with you Ed.
post #96 of 1753
Well you got me there.
post #97 of 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
Well you got me there.
It's not a contest Ed.
post #98 of 1753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
So it's a calculated strategy to stand by their principles no matter what. One thing that in the GOP's "Favor" : yesterday's report on people filing for unemployment seems to support their gamble
The take away I got from that is the Republican strategy these days is basically "Hope Obama fucks up".
post #99 of 1753
Thom Hartmann is broadcasting live this AM from the Conservative Political Action Conference and just interviewed this kid, who is one of the featured speakers at the conference and really kind of scared the crap out of me. Reminded me a little too much of...

post #100 of 1753
Of course he looks creepy, he's at a conservative convention ... uuuuhhhh ... scary kid ...

:-/
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