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8-year-old charged with premeditated murder

post #1 of 28
11/8/08 at 12:16am
Thread Starter 
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/07/....ap/index.html

Quote:
8-year-old accused of killing father, another man

FLAGSTAFF, Arizona (AP) -- An 8-year-old boy is charged with murder in the shooting of his father and another man in a rural community in eastern Arizona, authorities said Friday.

The boy was charged with two counts of premeditated murder in the death of his father, 29-year-old Vincent Romero, and 39-year-old Timothy Romans, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said.

Police arrived at the home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday, Melnick said. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.

The boy, who prosecutors say had never been in trouble before, initially denied involvement in the shooting but later confessed, Melnick said.

Police have not said what they think the boy's motive was.

Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued Friday that police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

A judge determined at a hearing Friday that there was probable cause to believe the boy committed the killings. He is being held at the Apache County juvenile detention center.

St. Johns is a community of about 4,000 people about 170 miles northeast of Phoenix.
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post #2 of 28
11/8/08 at 12:23am
Quote:
Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued Friday that police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent...
Well, now, whose fault was THAT?
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post #3 of 28
11/8/08 at 12:30am
Guess he didn't premeditate the 'getting away' part. What, no tricycle?


Just a wild guess: The father was beating the shit out of the kid and the kid shot his ass. Not to mention, when an 8 year old can get his hands on a gun, it doesn't exactly scream responsible parents.
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post #4 of 28
11/8/08 at 2:05am
You can't really assume child abuse, could just be a case of the this:http://www.chasingthefrog.com/unmask...lliamsndin.jpg
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post #5 of 28
11/8/08 at 11:14am
Quote:
"Who would think an 8-year-old kid could kill two adults?" St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said Friday.
I'm kind of surprised it doesn't happen more often. Have you seen the way kids treat each other when they think no one is watching? They're kind of terrifying in their formative years, when their moral compasses haven't quite magnetized. (And I say this as someone who hasn't seen Battle Royale yet.)

Combine that with leaving guns around and it's all 'omg he had tha blackest eyes the devils eyes waaah'.
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post #6 of 28
11/8/08 at 11:20am
Are eight year olds even liable to prosecution? Apparently judging by that article. But that strikes me as odd. Over here you are only liable when you turn 14.
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post #7 of 28
11/8/08 at 7:16pm
As a former AZ resident, I'm strangely filled with pride.
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post #8 of 28
11/8/08 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post
Over here you are only liable when you turn 14.
So when your 13, you can kill all the people you hate and get em' outta the way.
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post #9 of 28
11/8/08 at 9:57pm
I think my reaction to this was the same as many of yours. That being, "how did this not happen in Florida?"
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post #10 of 28
11/8/08 at 11:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
That being, "how did this not happen in Florida?"
It feels a bit hollow knowing that it didn't happen here. That being said, that kid's hardcore.
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post #11 of 28
11/9/08 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cordo View Post
It feels a bit hollow knowing that it didn't happen here. That being said, that kid's hardcore.
so did he reload or what?
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post #12 of 28
11/9/08 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
So when your 13, you can kill all the people you hate and get em' outta the way.
Yup.

That´s the reason why especially drug trafficking and stealing stuff for gangs, etc. is favorably being done by kids under 14 years. This arbitrary age is debatable but that is the law over here.
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post #13 of 28
11/9/08 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cordo View Post
That being said, that kid's hardcore.
Meh, that's not hardcore. An axe or chainsaw, or manual strangulation with his security blanket, that would've been hardcore.
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post #14 of 28
11/10/08 at 1:54pm
I don't know what the law is in AZ, specifically, but the general rule in American jurisprudence is that anyone under the age of 9 is presumed incapable of negligence in tort or premeditation in crimes. That is, however, a rebuttable presumption in most jurisdictions, and if a prosecutor can demonstrate to the satisfaction of a judge that the minor as an individual was in fact capable of premeditation, he can be so prosecuted.
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post #15 of 28
11/10/08 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg View Post
I don't know what the law is in AZ, specifically, but the general rule in American jurisprudence is that anyone under the age of 9 is presumed incapable of negligence in tort or premeditation in crimes. That is, however, a rebuttable presumption in most jurisdictions, and if a prosecutor can demonstrate to the satisfaction of a judge that the minor as an individual was in fact capable of premeditation, he can be so prosecuted.
I have a really hard time seeing any judge ruling so in the case of an 8 year old. Even in Texas, wh-...well, maybe in Texas.
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post #16 of 28
11/10/08 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkerbee View Post
Meh, that's not hardcore. An axe or chainsaw, or manual strangulation with his security blanket, that would've been hardcore.
Now you see, you'd expect Japan or Germany to do something like that.

This certainly does remind me of that period in the late 90s where there was this swarm of child murderers.
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post #17 of 28
11/10/08 at 2:02pm
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post #18 of 28
11/11/08 at 4:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
I have a really hard time seeing any judge ruling so in the case of an 8 year old. Even in Texas, wh-...well, maybe in Texas.
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post #19 of 28
11/11/08 at 12:14pm
Schwartz is right ya know.
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post #20 of 28
11/12/08 at 2:25am
I know -- I'm just not ready to give up my genetic predisposition to knee-jerk defend my state no matter what the cost.
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post #21 of 28
11/12/08 at 9:59am
Spoken like a true son of Texas. Remember the Alamo!
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post #22 of 28
11/12/08 at 12:54pm
Don't mess with Texas.
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post #23 of 28
11/13/08 at 9:22am
And I couldn't even tie my shoes at 8 years old.
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post #24 of 28
11/22/08 at 3:15am
Prosecutor seeks to drop charge against young murder suspect

Quote:
An Arizona prosecutor Friday asked to dismiss one of two murder charges against an 8-year-old boy suspected in the shooting deaths of his father and another man.

Apache County Attorney Criss Candelaria filed a one-paragraph motion in juvenile court to drop the murder charge accusing the boy of killing his father.

The motion gave no reason for the request, saying only that "the state believes the interest of justice will be served by such a dismissal."

...

The boy has not entered a plea in the case. One of his defense attorneys said he was not read his rights and did not have an attorney or a parent present during questioning.
I never, ever get this shit: Not read his rights. Decades of DIRTY HARRY, THE STAR CHAMBER, NIGHT PATROL, DEATH WISH, Law & Order, Kojak and Cop Rock and these guys still don't have the Miranda thing down? Fuck, don't they write the damn thing on a little Community Chest card so they can read the fucking thing right off of it if they have to?

Sure, someone goes downtown as a victim or even a witness but then as things develop, it turns out the person is more involved than previously thought....Mirandize them! Yeah, I get the police don't want to risk trouble by even giving the whiff of suspicion in covering their asses up front, but this is just asinine. Maybe they should just Mirandize everyone at any crime scene they come to.



You have the right to remain sassy. Anything you say can and will be used on
an musical soundtrack. You have the right to fruity hat. If you cannot afford a
fruity hat, one will be appointed by costuming. Do you understand these rights?

Easy enough. Chick-a-Boom!
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post #25 of 28
11/22/08 at 10:50am
I saw the video of the boy being questioned on CNN. Whatever happened, even if this boy did it, the cops didn't handle this properly and they wouldn't get a conviction I don't think.

The little boy is in a chair with two police women who have guns on them, swearing up and down he didn't do it, they're pressuring him to "tell the truth" and he's insisting he is, then a cop suggests that there is a witness that says he did it, there's a skip in the tape, and then it comes back on and he's admitting to the crime, but it looks like they're leading him.

Logic says if you are going to interview an 8 year old you need to have someone there who can make sure the cops aren't taking advantage of him. Because I don't think the kid would have understood anyway.
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post #26 of 28
11/22/08 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcr39 View Post
Because I don't think the kid would have understood anyway.
Exactly. Reading the Miranda rights to an 8 year old would probably not only feel ridiculous, but would hold up in court as much as this coerced confession will.
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post #27 of 28
11/22/08 at 1:21pm
This only confirms further what I've known all along...cops are really fucking dumb for the most part. They can't even bust someone for weed without fucking up the police report so it has to be thrown out in court (speaking from personal experience), so I wouldn't expect them to be able to properly handle a murder case involving an 8 year old. Especially the interrogation. Guess they didn't do their homework.

Dumbasses...
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post #28 of 28
11/22/08 at 11:28pm
When I read about this in the paper I reminded me a lot of James Bulger, the poor little boy whose name I couldn't remember until I googled 'england murder batteries anus'.


...probably going to hell after that one.
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