Can someone explain the appeal of Van Halen and other 80s Cock Rock Bands to me?

They're fun.

Hence why he doesn't get it.

Jesus, you walked right into that one, Spike.

It's not really fair to lump Van Halen in there, since Eddie's talen is pretty undeniable, as is Roth's charisma as a front man. He may not have had the greatest voice, but he knew how to lead a band.

Spike, have you ever roared along to a boisterous chorus with a bunch of people at a bar or party or a bris? I don't loyally follow AC/DC or Van Halen or Ratt, nor is my music collection brimming with such stuff, but if The Scorpions happen to come on the radio in the car, you can bet I'm turning it up and singing along. Nostalgia might play a bit into it, but I dunno, it's just fun to listen to sometimes. Music's the second to last thing I'd want to intellectualize.

HEEEEERE IIIII AAAAAAAAAM

on the wings.... OF AN ANGEEEEEEL

HEEEEEREEEE III AAAM

in the land.... OF THE MORNINGSTAAAAAAR

Why do you not see the inherent lulz in this?

Rock you like a hurricaaaaaaaane!

I don't think Klaus knows what he's singing any more than I do.

I kinda like Van Halen and early ACDC, but if we're talking hair metal bands, or Journey and Boston....yea, they suck.

DON'T STOP, BELIEVE IN...
HOLD ON TO THAT FEEEELIN'!

I've never considered Journey or Boston anything close to hair metal.

They aren't, they were just around at the same time. I'm not a big fan of 80's music, period. With a few notable exceptions (G&R, Van Halen).

Fuck Def Leppard. Your one armed drummer sucks. Your singer sucks. Your guitarist, sucks.

First of all - don't lump Van Halen in as cock rock.

Second of all - Boston and Journey and Hair Metal are not all from the same time. Boston was an overproduced rock band in the late 70's, Journey spans decades, and Hair Metal was a flash in the pan between 86 and 91. None of them suck.

They may have had a huge influence on the hair metal scene of the late 80's (alongside Kiss and 70's Glam), but Van Halen is not the same thing as Trixter, Warrant, Winger, or Poison. If you knew their music a little better you would know this.

Eddie Van Halen changed the entire rock music scene with his guitar playing and for that he will always get respect. Much like Hendrix (or unsung music historical events like Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins perfecting gated drums). With the circus of the stars style showmanship of David Lee Roth backing him up, and a ton of great songs they were in the right place at the right time. But more than that - they don't sound like hair metal. Oh sure, songs like Hot For Teacher or other ones that casual radio kids have to suffer through might have a passing resemblance to the bad late 80's MTV schedule, but the majority of their songs are strange, off kilter and not that catchy. Push Comes To Shove, Tora! Tora!, and all their bizarre choices of 60's songs to cover (and little acoustic ditties and solos) are far removed from Every Rose Has it's Thorn.

Then David Lee Roth left and Sammy joined and they turned into Van Hagar - a pop band akin REO Speedwagon. I enjoy both lineups. I'm in a minority.

PLUS they are good. Perhaps it's a generational thing. Van Halen - great band. Rock history. Since I am becoming my father, I wouldn't expect the Of Montreal kids to get it.

Cock Rock/Glam/Hair Metal for the most part has an appeal to some of the people who were of a certain age when it was HUGE. Think other flash in the pan music movements that continued to hold their fans - Disco, Prog, bad 90's electronica, bad 90's swing/ska, boy bands, etc.

The appeal is that it is candy. For people who don't get totally bent out of shape about the ridiculous fashion, lyrics or stage antics, the hair metal music is good, catchy, energetic, brainless, fun music. That's all there is to it. Unless you want to get into the conversation about some of the bands like Cinderella or Tesla that used Blues/Zeppelin sorts of influences more apparently and ultimately have more talent than your standard Ratt-clone.

Frankly, I'm suspicious of people who see no appeal in Van Halen or "cock rock". Too cool for school? self serious? obsessed with your idea of good lyrics? too young?



I leave you with this

80s music or "80s music"? That's up there with "I don't like Westerns". Come on, there's a ton of great stuff from the decade!

I think it's the fashion style and the use of synths that bug me the most about 80s stuff. There were good musicians mixed in there, but they mostly got overshadowed by their hair metal counterparts.

I love Queen, I love 80's G&R, I like Van Halen and ACDC, but outside of those guys, there's not much I like. Granted, I was born in 86', so it's not like I grew up in the decade and know it like I know the 90's alternative scene.

The 90s had an alternative scene?

Which Def Leppard guitarist sucks?
they've had 3.

Led Zep were the prototypical cock-rockers. As much grief as Warrant gets, the half-entendres in "Cherry Pie" aren't that much removed from "Squeeze my lemon until the juice runs down my leg."

If you can appreciate (or at least understand the appeal) of Zep's less-ambitious tunes like "Black Dog" or "Rock and Roll", you're on the path.

Obviously all of the cock-rock bands were sub-Zep, but they take that template - guitar heroics, big choruses, half-baked sexual innuendo, flamboyant dress - and proceed from there.

It isn't big, "IMPORTANT" music -attempts to address weightier matters usually fall flat in the most pathetic way possible; it's just good-time stuff that you don't have to sit and ponder over to appreciate. It's immediately gratifying (if you're into that sorta thing) and a frothy mix that doesn't fill you up.

Best cock rock song? "Girlschool" by Britny Fox has a kickin' riff and such awesomely cheez-bomb lyrics (A bad girl smokin in school/ breakin the rules actin real cool/ Talkin' 'bout all the rock boys/ back seat joys with some boy's toy). Every time I hear it I wish I was driving a red '78 Pontiac Firebird with the t-top open on a warm summer day. Or maybe a Camaro.

Four. You probably forgot Pete Willis.

A lot of the 80s hair bands were more about showmanship than musicianship, sure, but a lot of them pulled off that showmanship very very well.

And up through Hysteria, I'll defend Def Leppard to the death.

Shhh, he was 14 by the end of the 90s.

90's alternative post-grunge.

Pssh, that shows my knowledge of the 80's right there. I didn't even know they had 3 guitarists. Give me some recommendations and I'll check it out and see if I like it.

Oh, and I forgot REM was around in the 80's. Love those guys.

Actually, of all the indie rock bands you could have picked here, Of Montreal is possibly the worst choice. I just saw them a few weeks ago, and, via the theatricality, showmanship, and tendency of Kevin Barnes to prance around scantily clad, there are some shared superficial tendencies between them and Roth-era Van Halen. Plus, the new album is full of ridiculous double-entendres that would probably make Roth pretty happy.

Now if you said "The National" or something, you'd probably be more on the right track.

Which music from the 80s? It's not as if the entire decade was all cock-rock.

Alright, I'm ignorant when it comes to 80's shit outside of Talking Heads, REM, Van Halen, and ACDC. Turn me onto some good shit.

Blondie, Bauhaus, The Smiths, Butthole Surfers, Jane's Addiction, The Cars, Devo, The Pixies...

I'd put the ascension of hair metal from when Quiet Riot went #1 in 1983. Makes it longer-lasting than grunge.

"Not the same thing"?

VH set the template; MOST of those bands took the Zep frontman/guitar hero interplay as refined by VH's "party band" atmospherics. Jesus Christ, look at how Roth DRESSED.

U2. Black Flag, The Minutemen. Metallica's first 3 albums. Peter Gabriel.

Def Leppard's Hysteria one of the greatest albums of all time.

Also, I wouldn't start a thread about Hip Hop because I don't know anything about it and I don't enjoy most of it.

Are you geddin it?

Nah, having the requisite guitar hero was key to any band (again, Page-via-Van Halen). Guys like George Lynch and Warren DeMartini has some solid chops.

Spike, it might help if we knew what bands you consider to be Cock Rock, outside of Van Halen.

InTheShadows, I would point you towards U2, the Police, Peter Gabriel, the Clash, the Cure, Adam and the Ants, Devo, Pet Shop Boys, Boomtown Rats, Blondie, and Billy Idol. Some are legitimately good, others are just great fun pop.

I see your point.

I was talking about the music. Van Halen is not the same thing. Some of the hits and party songs, yeah. Some of the filler stuff would never come out of those other bands.

Yeah, Van Halen covered plenty of old blues songs, and I really doubt Warrant had an a cappella version of "Happy Trails" in their repertoire.

How can someone not "get" Roth era Van Halen?

But yeah, in the 80s there was a new hair metal band on MTV every day:

Britney Fox, Trixter, Danger Danger, Bang Tango... I didn't get them either.

It's a matter of influence. Kids growing up on VH wanted to be Dave and Eddie.

Eddie wanted to be Hendrix and Dave apparently wanted to be a cross between David Johansen and Louis Prima.

I think "hair metal" (or "cock rock") as a phrase is basically inviting fail. "80s commercial hard rock" is probably more to what you mean.

For example, I doubt AC/DC even know that soap exists. Twisted Sister didn't really get into the whole "she's a glazed donut/I'm a polish sausage" type lyrical mindset. White Snake were basically 70s arena rock.

AC/DC has been around far too long to fall into 80s ... anything, really.

The British thought AC/DC were punk when they first came out.

Actually, Eddie wanted to be Clapton. More than anything. He'll say that much to this day.

Everybody in this thread has some good points, but I think Dickson and Andrew C isolated the key bits. =VH= made a ton of great music, and they were head and shoulders above most of the other "hair metal" bands that appeared after them in the mid-'80s.

What do you think of "Unchained," which Andrew linked above, Spike?

Van Halen and 'Cock Rock' - I was born in 1970, so I spent my teenage formative years with this stuff.

You won't 'get this' unless you can envision yourself as a 16 year old kid, pounding a beer that your brother got you, pumping your fists in the air, and grinding next to a girl in tight acid-washed jeans with blonde hair teased up to the moon. Deride it all you want, but it was a blast to grow up with that shit.

Now, like in any musical genre, there is talent and there is shit. Van Halen (both with DLR and with Sammy) had fucking talent. Don't lump them in with the knock-offs like Bulletboys that tried to capitalize on their type of music.

And I don't categorize 'hair metal' as cock rock. That's a whole other thing.

Bob Seger?

I understand what your saying Spike, just kiddin' with ya.

I WANNA ROCK!

Dickson, thanks for the recommendations.

Van Halen (DLR era) was all about having a drink in your hand, having your toes in your sand, and being with a beautiful girl. What's not to get?

Or your incredibly hot teacher.

And you've got it made.

Seriously, this isn't rocket science. This music was nothing but a catalyst to get into a chick's pants in the 80s.

I lost my keys/and you lost more then that in my backseat