Can someone explain the appeal of Van Halen and other 80s Cock Rock Bands to me? - Page 5

Don't understand the hate for Audioslave. Sure they never lived up to their potential or matched the pedigree of their former bands, but they were still an anomaly for this decade--a damn good rock n' roll band. (Me and Michael Mann against the world!)

Chris Cornell was a rock god, a big improvement over the one note, pedestrian Zack de la Rocha (Marxist punk politics can't mask the fact he was a rap/metal David Lee Roth-attitude greater than talent). Always felt the problem was with Tom Morello. didn't seem to adjust well to the new style. He was too toned down. Where was the fire?

"Cochise" was a great single.

Well then get yourself a copy of 'Fair Warning' and listen to it until you do.

It's the only way to be sure.

Yngwie is pure noise. I've listened to his cds and I've even seen him live...he's tedious and boring, all skill and technique with zero soul. Eric Clapton can get more out of one note than Yngwie can get out of 100.

To paraphrase Jeffrey Jones in 'Amadeus', Yngwie uses too many notes.

Another problem with Yngwie Malmsteen (and Tony Macalpine and all those 'guitar god' metal types) is that their songwriting is usually atrocious and the backing band is worse. The rhythm section on "Black Star" would make John Bonham quit drinking.

Instrumental metal albums are pretty much the definition of terrible. If I'm ever in a "24" scenario and need to get information out of DaveB, I'm bringing along a few Rising Force albums - oh he'll talk.

Even if the "guitar god" types (Yngwie, Tony Macalpine, members of NITRO and DRAGONFORCE) are retarded with too many notes and bad backing bands - like the hair metal argument in general - it's fun music (for some people), and the nose-in-the-air rock critic thing doesn't and shouldn't really apply. These artists should be looked at like Logan's Run or a Fulci movie. Not really that good, but a messy dated bit of entertainment for a portion of the middle underground male public.


AUDIOSLAVE was not a damn fine band,
rather a totally bland and uninspired one.

I've heard more life in a Nickelback single...

Yeah, but it's fun music (for some people), and the nose-in-the-air rock critic thing doesn't and shouldn't really apply?

Granted, I think Audioslave is turgid bullshit, too, but the most notable thing about them is arguably Morello's guitar playing. Isn't it just another version of the wankery that characterize most of the more overt guitar-god stuff? In other words, the people who get off on them the most are guitar geeks who enjoy Morello's technique.

For anyone who isn't pre-sold on either Dragonforce or Audioslave, suspending critical judgment for one, but not the other, doesn't really make any sense. It's not like the "fun" detector goes off and everyone can agree on what music is worthy of genuine critical appraisal and which gets a pass. You just change your criteria accordingly.

As such, I find Van Halen way more "fun" than any of these guys by virtue of the fact that Roth is a terrific showman, the music is fun to pick apart from a technical standpoint, and the playful spirit is overt rather than dependent on you getting the idea that some guy shredding lightning fast solos may be an absurd display of proficiency, but also may be ironic commentary on the idea of absurd displays of proficiency (which is kind of what I get out of the little Dragonforce I've heard).

Andrew C's most recent post just helped me realize why I've never really liked the instrumental metal thing - it doesn't come across as at all "fun" to me. I always got the sense that those guys took themselves seriously, because Yngwie was cribbing Beethoven or someone was playing a harpsichord really fast they were actually making ART. The exception that proves the rule - I didn't hate some of Joe Satriani's stuff because he had a sense of humor about it. But different strokes for different folks.

ETA: With all you metalheads here, someone tell me who the jackass was that played a guitar with THREE necks. And the guy would play all three during the same, er, song, fingers flying back and forth like a rabid Kerry King. Even Ozzy came out of his drugged-up late '80s stupor to make fun of the guy one time. And the lead singer had HUGE teased-out hair, Poison would've made fun of the guy...good times...

Joe Satriani can at least craft a decent melody line and put together something interesting; his work tends to have a decent groove that you can rock out to. Steve Vai is a bit more experimental, so I wouldn't lump him in with the noise-shredders either.

I can respect the ability and technique that Yngwie Malmsteen, Michael Angelo (Nitro), and the others have, but I can't listen to them.

I just have to drop in and point out how lame the whole "synths suck. Period." argument/opinion is.


Carry on.

Wait, somebody has a problem with any synth? Who is it? They should immediately pick up some early Gary Numan records...

I will always admit that my arguments never hold water.
I'm no debater, just here to talk about teased hair.

Anything negative I say about Audioslave is based on my distaste for 90's rock and 21st Century post grunge American Radio Rock.



anyway:

The guitar gods take themselves way too seriously, true.
I think the listeners have fun (at least the ones who actually, truly like the music), and that's what I was referring to.





Tons of people from Steve Vai to Rick Nielsen to Michael Angelo have used the multiple-multiple guitar necks, don't know who specifically Ozzy was making fun of...

I am going to say you are most likely thinking of Nitro. Your description of the lead singer sounds suspiciously like Jim Gillette

http://www.bringbackglam.com/journal...s-bonkers.html

AKA Mr. Lita Ford.

Thanks Andrew, I'm almost positive it's that last guy, the one who looks like a young Mick Mars (except that a young Mick Mars would be wearing pantaloons).Even the pics help illustrate the point - Rick is obviously having a goof and Steve Vai always had tongue firmly in cheek, but that last guy seems to think he's the viking on a Molly Hatchet album cover. FOUR necks. Jesus.
[ETA: And THANKS Mundt!]

I think that's because Eddie knew how to craft a great pop song instead of just wanking on his guitar, 'Could this be Magic' 'Little Guitars' 'Panama' they were good songwriters. Eddie's guitar playing combined with Alex's drumming and Michael's bass playing, they had an incredible amount of energy.

Yes, both correct.

The last guy with the quad guitar IS Michael Angelo Batio, from NITRO

WITNESS HIM BEING LAME


Holy Spinal Tap.

Oh, Rick Nielsen, how I love your brilliant sight gags!

Speaking of Cheap Trick, am I the only one who thinks Lap of Luxury was a cash grab album for them? Y'know, they needed a little money so the intentionally wrote incredibly insipid songs that had Top 40 appeal. Or am I just hoping too much?

Holy Bad.

But the comments under it are all positive! He must be awesome!

hey, you can't deny that the guy can play the guitar. Would you want to LISTEN to that? No.

At that point "playing the guitar" is no different than solving a Rubik's Cube in under 45 seconds or sleight-of-hand card tricks.

Considering the complete lack of anything even remotely engaging to the listener, your comparison is spot on. He's a stunt guitarist, nothing more...an oddity to look at for a few moments and then walk away.

A few moments....

I lasted 42 seconds.

Speaking as a guitarist, I love me some instrumentalists. Phil Keaggy, Satch, Al Dimeola, Tony Levin, et al are just great to study and appreciate. But when I really want to rock I put on my copy of VHII and bounce on the living room furniture with my 6-year old daughter. There's something to be said for just buying into the joie de vivre of the DLR years.

It definitely is. Epic was basically pulling the strings, and all you have to do is look at the songwriting credits to see what happened. None of the singles were written by the band members, except for "Ghost Town," which has a co-writing credit by (ugh) Diane Warren.

Lap of Luxury is the album that still prevents me from selling anyone who grew up hearing "The Flame" and their shitty cover of "Don't Be Cruel" on the radio on their amazing 70s and early 80s work (to say nothing of the reasonably good albums they've made in the last decade or so). Of course, I've heard that the two or three albums between LoL and the great self-titled return-to-form are pretty awful, too.

If you want to really laugh you should track down Jim Gillette's how to sing metal instructional video.

I prefer Brian Posehn's video.

I don't hate Audioslave, it would be like hating oatmeal. I just expected awesomeness and in the end, they were a good sight better than you average bitch rock band (Incubus, Staind - all those whiny mopey faux-metal boys) but still just sorta there.

Incubus and Staind don't really belong in the same sentence.

Oh, I was being sarcastic. Fire away on Yngwie - I agree with pretty much all you've said.

Well Jim Gillette's video is funny because it isn't supposed to be.

Whatever; I have a life now, unlike back in the 80s, I can't be expected to keep all these lame-ass bands straight.

Not that it matters, but I think Incubus is a little more Switchfoot-ish and Staind is a little more Disturbed-ish.


[shudder]


The guitar player for Switchfoot hung out in my bedroom in 1999.
Oh boy.

That video shook the foundations of my reality back in '85. That and this one --http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GtrGnAIRk

There was a period where I loved Van Halen. The thing is, and i wonder if most of the fans realize this--the Jeff Beck Group did the same thing first and better. Check out the albums "Truth" and "Beck-Ola". Bombastic guitar and cocky lead singer/ showman. All the highs and none of the embarrassing lows.

In summation: Jeff Beck + Rod Stewart > Eddie Van Halen + DLR

They both belong in this sentence: Incubus and Staind both suck balls.

Seems to me that if you're gonna be a dick about the Jeff Beck Group, the object of your dickitude should be Led Zep, not Van Halen. For one thing, people don't listen to VH because they're great musicians, they listen to them because they're fun to listen to. Anyway, isn't that like saying nobody should listen to The Clash, because The Ramones came first?

Yeah, I don't really see Beck/Stewart as a close enough analogy to VH that listening to one is a replacement for listening to the other.

I've never thought "fun" when thinking about (or while listening to) The Jeff Beck Group. Now if you meant The Faces...

Not even close. The only way these two bands are comparable is that they have a great guitarist and a charismatic front man. The intent, execution, and final product are vastly different and in no way realtable to one another.

Hey, I find the Jeff Beck Group fun!!!

The Cult isn't cock rock.

Eventually they were.

By ELECTRIC they most definitely are. There's some psychedelia and shamanistic mumbo-jumbo mixed in, but underneath it beats a heart of cock-rock.

Plus he kind of ballooned out. No... that's not quite right. He got fucking fat! I thought free drugs and groupie sex kept a person thin. Who knew?

The Cult: The evolution from goth/mystic band to pure cock-rock:

That was wondrous.

Only wondrous in the sense that the last picture isn't The Cult,
rather Circus Diablo.

The Cult looks like this these days:





HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference.

Well, two of those guys are the same.

Wow. How boring.

Man, it's pretty obvious Eddie overshot his mark on THAT one.

I noticed listening to UFO that Michael Schenker and EVH have VERY similar tones; really, I'd say Schenker sounds more like the guy EVH took MUCH of his sound from than Clapton....anyone know if it's intentional, coincidental, or due to the fact that both use Jackson guitars run through a Marshall amp?