Can someone explain the appeal of Van Halen and other 80s Cock Rock Bands to me? - Page 2

Always love your contrariness but come on, man. Really? Talk about over-produced! Under Mutt Lange, weren't Def Leppard kind of the hair metal Monkees?

I find it embarrassing that gen-xers embrace the bad music we grew up on. Especially the kind favored by the unwashed kids from shop class. (Isn't it rather silly to be pushing 40 cranking up Ratt and Cinderella?) Weren't we glad when Kurt Cobain killed this shit?

Ipods make it easy to put the cheesy singles on constant shuffle.

I am reminded as a kid when older boomers had jukeboxes in their rec rooms filled with rockabilly 45s or hits of the 60s. I always thought it was kind of cool but limiting. Really, how many times can you listen to Hound Dog in your lifetime? I guess in defense of the boomers, they can at least make the claim that their early rock n roll was legitimately great.

As somebody said, I guess that it all comes down to nostalgia. The songs we grew up with have a power. I can't really judge because while I have moved away from most of my early favorites, I've still been known to crank up Beastie Boys or Run DMC in the car. We can all dicker around about what is quality, but it's supposed to be about "fun, fun, fun".



Anybody remember when Dee Snyder was the James Earl Jones-ish voice of MSNBC? Hilariously inappropriate!

I'll be 40 in four months. I just finished coaching a t-ball game for my 6 year old. Right now I'm having my minivan serviced, and while I'm waiting I'm listening to Ain't Talkin 'bout Love on my Blackberry, while surfing CHUD MBs and answering email from federal government co-workers.

Listening to Van Halen is about the only part of the previous paragraph I could have foreseen 25 years ago.

ETA: Pyromania is superior to the over processed Hysteria.

I don't dig a lot of hair metal (too over-produced for my tastes) but the appeal of fun music seems kind of obvious to me. Whether that's something like Of Montreal or Van Halen or They Might Be Giants.

I love Van Halen because I love noisy pop music. They knew how to write a hook, they knew how to constuct a song, and they knew how to make it loud, sloppy (not that the musicianship is sloppy, just the squealing tone of the guitars and Roth's vocals), and energetic rock and roll.

This is sort of like the argument people have against a lot of hip-hop, in a way, complaining that songs abut clubs, drinking, and sex is limiting and simple-minded. And, in both the popular hard rock of the 80's and the popular hip-hop of today, these attitudes ARE all prevalent, with little other subject matter to balance it out. But what kind of sexless, sober, fun-a-phobe do you have to be to be completely against songs about drinking, dancing, and fucking?

Personally, I like to drink, I like to dance, and I like to fuck, so all those are things I enjoy hearing songs about. That's not to say I don't appreciate the introspective music of The Mountain Goats, the dark atmosphere of The National, the manic noisiness of The Pixies, the insane imagery and flow of Ghostface Killah, the sexy and smooth voice of Curtis Mayfield, the incredible timing of Thelonious Monk, or any number of other varying artists.

Different music for different moods, man. Sometimes I want to lie in bed, stare at the ceiling, and die. That's when Joy Division comes in handy. Sometimes I want to do a flying jump kick and shout "fuck yeah!" Van Halen hits that spot better than any other I know.

Absofuckinglutely. 'Hysteria' was the right album at the right time, nothing more.

Give that man a prize.

I'd fuck Elvis. If I absolutely had to fuck a guy...I'd fuck Elvis.

Would you like to clarify that quote, Spike? Is it Rock music as a whole that you just don't get?

Spike, 80s Cock Rock is America's version of pub songs. Everyone knows them and when there's alcohol around you know you're going to hear them.

I used to say "fuck Elvis", back before I listened to him. It's easy to hate an overrated rock legend who stole from black artists to make his fortune. But after having spent a few days listening to the Elvis radio station on Sirius, I finally got it. He's still overrated (like The Beatles, he's held to such high esteem that there's no possible way he COULDN'T be overrated) and he still represents the racist origin of rock 'n roll, but I'll be goddamned if I don't at least enjoy listening to nearly every song he ever recorded.

Watch the '68 comeback special that Elvis did and you'll become a fan.

Like "I Wanna Rock!" and "Bang Your Head" and "Good Rockin' Tonight". It's the really self-aware "rock about rock" niche. It's hard to get that right, I'll agree with you there. But there's good and bad versions of that as well.

But "Fuck Elvis" has a closed-minded ring to it that says we're not going to sway you Ripoli-style in this thread.

The point of contention with people regarding Elvis is either he created Rock 'N Roll or he just stole from black musicians. The answer is clearly both.

The simplest way to deconstruct it is Elvis made it okay for white kids to listen to listen to "black music". It started a snowball effect which opened the doors for The Beatles, the Who, the Rolling Stones etc. Elvis was just an unwitting figurehead in a movement to expand the average American's musical horizons.

Well said, Eric. It also helps that Elvis was actually talented (both as a singer and as a showman) and surrounded himself with people who marketed him well.

I think that the main problem with hating 'cock rock' is that the market got over-saturated with lesser bands that were trying to ride the coat-tails of talented bands like Van Halen. Granted, that happens ANY time that a musical genre takes off and the labels go out and sign anyone that fits the label that they're trying to market. But the 80s was an era of excess that also had a certain 'look' to it (tight jeans, teased hair, bright colors, etc) that makes it easier to write off.

You heard the wrong stuff. Try his Sun Sessions (might be collected as Sunrise). Elvis' movie career did enough damage to his musical output; it sucks that it's kind of fucking his legacy as well.

(sidebar: It's said that Sam Phillips sold Elvis' contract because he had what he decided would be an even bigger moneymaker waiting in the wings: Jerry Lee Lewis. Then Jerry Lee married his cousin and fucked his career.)

What about Led Zepellin singing about Hobbits?

What rational person with even the slightest musical taste doesn't?

You want to talk about musical thieves, the discussion begins and ends with Zepellin.

Spike, if a song had a great riff, was really fun and catchy but the lyrics were about "rocking", would that turn you off of the song completely?

Exactly. (Though my comment was a non-sequitir.) Zeppelin stole more blues than Elvis.

Re: Elvis - I try not to mix up art and artist too much. Most of my favorite directors are or were likely assholes in person.

I think that almost everyone goes through a major Led Zep kick at some point in their lives; I know that I certainly did in the late 80s. They are an absolutely essential band in the history of hard rock.

That being said, I think that I've come to the conclusion that I don't care for Robert Plant anymore. His banshee wail that is often off-key just grates on me now. I can get past the innovative (yet sloppy) guitar work from Jimmy Page just fine, but Robert kills it for me.

Spike, out of curiosity, what are your feelings about Buddy Holly?

That's just not nice.

The idea of "stealing" from the blues is antithetical to the blues tradition. You can't steal the blues.

I've enjoyed Led Zeppelin and Van Halen in my time, but I've always been more of a Maiden/Priest/Sabbath type of guy. I like wizards and shit. And leather boys on Harleys with screeching high falsettos.

Woah. Buddy Holly (I'll reiterate, BUDDY FUCKING HOLLY)? Led Zeppelin? Van Halen? Elvis?

You don't like any of these guys?

That's craziness.

My dad still listened to obscure doo wop and 50s and 60s novelty songs when he was 40. It ain't just Gen X that hangs on to its musical childhood.

Ronnie James Dio era Rainbow is probably my favorite from this era; our musical collections are probably pretty similar.

He was a rock and roll specialist. No matter what you think of rock and roll, I think you have to keep a nice open mind about what the young people go for. Otherwise the youngsters will feel that you don't understand them.

http://www.dogmaticblog.com/mp3/led_zep2.mp3

It's long, and it's from the Howard Stern Show, but it's extremely interesting and true.

It's about Led Zeppelin.

The problem with that is, before rock 'n roll, people weren't making millions of dollars when they stole each other's music.

EDIT: I love early rock 'n roll music because it feels like punk rock to me. I have this great bootleg of The Beatles at the Star Club in Hamburg, and they TEAR through those songs louder and faster than I've heard them anywhere else, it's fantastic.

I love Dio's stint in Sabbath. MOB RULES is my favorite metal album of all time.

I'll take the Dio years over Ozzy any time. 'The Mob Rules' is awesome, but I personally prefer 'Heaven and Hell' for being the ultimate Dio/Sabbath album.

As far as cock rock goes...any mention been made of the Nuge yet? Wang-a-dang, sweet poontang indeed.

If your talking the Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die! Ozzy I'll agree. But as much as I love Heaven and Hell, the first five Sabbath albums are in a league of their own.

The first five Ozzy/Sabbaths are indeed great albums, but I much prefer Dio as a singer to Ozzy. The band itself seemed re-energized and tighter in the Dio albums as well.

Can we get back to CockRock Metal please?

You know, it ain't great music per se, but it always brings me a smile. Be it Warrant, Ratt, Winger, White Lion or Twisted Sisters.

And the 80's we're the definition of excess, so it fits the decade like a glove. A hot white velvet glove.

Some 80's recommendations not named by the others: New Order, P.I.L., Dead Can Dance, but that last one ain't rock at all, it's just awesome.

Hahaha, this thread is bullshit. The only people that make sense? Andrew C., Cordo The Destroyer, Phil, Judas, Aquafresh, Bub, and Savage.

I got weaned off of cock rock with the Cult's LOVE album, which I thought at the time was a cerebral masterpiece. Then they kept getting progressively more cockrocky with ELECTRIC and SONIC TEMPLE, leaving me stunted and confused. Thankfully Jane's Addiction came along, and for a time all was right in my pot addled, power chord loving brain.

Jane's Addiction was a shitty band.

I thought they were gods at the time of NOTHING'S SHOCKING. I wouldn't bother arguing the point now.

I still think MOUNTAIN SONG is savage.

Just as good, if not better, the One Night With You spin-off, where he's just playing with the boys. They fucking kill Mystery Train.

Cock Rock, such as it is, was part of the MTV revolution, where a number of artists were essentially Americanized Glam Rock, though just as likely you can draw KISS as an inspiration. With many of these artists the pagentry was more interesting that the product itself. Such was the 1980's.

As with a number of cultural touchstones, that people feel nostalgia for things they were inundated with is part of our culture. I don't have a lot of feelings one way or another for a number of songs I can sing along to. That era of a shared pop culture is coming to an end. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

What may make these artists interesting is the inherent feminity of a number of their lead performers. With the high notes and such, there's definitely something lurking under the surface.

My advice is play the Bon Jovi's and Journey songs on Rock Band. It'll all make sense then.

I've loved Talking Heads for so long that I never saw David Byrne's big suit as a commentary on the 1980's and that culture until just now. I feel like Todd Haynes not getting that Freddie Mercury was gay until it was revealed he had AIDS. That was just staring me in the face, wasn't it. That's a lot of the 80's.

Twisted Sister was more like a comedy troupe that happened to use heavy metal as their style. And Dee Snider will always be a hero because of his appearance at the PMRC hearings. He ruled that thing.

Him and Zappa. The PMRC bullshit cost Al Gore my vote in 2000. Given a choice between putting Tipper Fucking Gore and Bush Jr. in the White House, I threw up my hands and said "fuck it." Stayed home that year. Hindsight is both 20/20 and a bitch, ain't it?

That's depressing.