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The Rocky Franchise - Page 3

post #101 of 154

Because III was quickly paced and had a ton of fights and action.   Rocky was a charecter piece more then boxing.

post #102 of 154
Wasn't III the shortest? I recall when doing a marathon how that one flew by compared to the first two.
post #103 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Wasn't III the shortest? I recall when doing a marathon how that one flew by compared to the first two.

Rocky 4.  I think?

post #104 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by levrock View Post

It's definitely the best one to introduce new viewers into the series. I've found some viewers feel like like I & II are "boring". If they fall in love with the characters in "III" they appreciate the drama oriented in a different way. 
My daughter really liked 1 & 2 so far, but after 2 introduces the wedding, Rocky's career woes, pregnancy, complications during birth and Adrian's coma and Rocky's vigil (how much of his training time did that take away?), my10 year old says "Wow, they are really filling this with drama, arent they?"

My daughter also wants to know why there's so much kissing in it and why I'm in tears at the end of both movies.

She's really taken with the character/world/boxing though. Loves Balboa's constant jokes and constant subconscious shadow-boxing he does. She gets jazzed and starts punching around like I did at her age (still do).

Something I noticed about 2 on this rewatch.... there's a ton of saliva. Characters spitting when they yell, spit buckets, drooling,etc. More noticable on big screen I guess.
post #105 of 154
Watching 3.

Love how meta/4th wall it is...
- The Muppet Show footage
- The statue at the museum (that really exists IRL)
- The marching band and orchestra playing Conti's Gonna Fly Now
- Paulie blasting Eye of the Tiger on the boombox

My favorite line...
Mickey: "Ever fight a dinosaur, kid? They do a variety of damage!"

Hearing Rocky's anguish when Mickey dies and Adrian's speech on the beach hit me hard. Reminds me of losing my own dad.
Edited by DARKMITE8 - 6/25/15 at 4:55pm
post #106 of 154
Watching MILLION DOLLAR BABY. I kind of realized why I hate most boxing films but I find the Rocky series to be an exception: The characters are more colorful and engaging.
post #107 of 154

Agreed.  Most Boxing films are so damn depressing and heavy.

 

Watched Rocky Balboa and the speech to his son is probably one of the best things Stallone has ever written.  

 

"I'd hold you up to say to your mother, "this kid's gonna be the best kid in the world. This kid's gonna be somebody better than anybody I ever knew." And you grew up good and wonderful. It was great just watching you, every day was like a privilige. Then the time come for you to be your own man and take on the world, and you did. But somewhere along the line, you changed. You stopped being you. You let people stick a finger in your face and tell you you're no good. And when things got hard, you started looking for something to blame, like a big shadow. Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now if you know what you're worth then go out and get what you're worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain't you! You're better than that! I'm always gonna love you no matter what. No matter what happens. You're my son and you're my blood. You're the best thing in my life. But until you start believing in yourself, ya ain't gonna have a life. Don't forget to visit your mother."

post #108 of 154

Sly's upcoming episode of The Director's Chair is already available on the El Rey Network's FB page. He talks about more than just the ROCKY films but that franchise gets the bulk of the focus:

 

https://www.facebook.com/ElReyNetwork/videos/vb.255001614604275/714824561955309/?type=2&theater

post #109 of 154

Thanks.  That was fantastic.  

post #110 of 154
I just picked up the 40th anniversary blu-ray set of the original six films. Has anyone been able to spot Michael Dorn in this? Currently I'm watching the first.
post #111 of 154

Had no idea he was in it!

 

And I just watched the blu-ray for the first film last week!  Though... I DID notice Stan Shaw as the boxer Mickey is training earlier in the film!  He was the PHANTOM PUNCHer in Snake Eyes!!!

 

"HE FOUGHT VERY FURIOUSLY!!!!"

 

Oh man, the ROCKY blu-ray's 4K remaster is gorgeous.

post #112 of 154
Troma film director -- and James Gunn mentor -- Lloyd Kaufman is the drunk that Rocky carries into the bar in the first movie.
post #113 of 154
I think I spotted Michael Dorn. He's the dude in the back by the window. Can't find a better screencap.


post #114 of 154

He also shows up later in the series as the lawyer who tries to prevent Rock and Mickey from being banished to that icy penal colony.

post #115 of 154

Oh, of course I wouldn't be able to recognize Dorn.  Not without his Trek prosthetics!

post #116 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post
 

Sly's upcoming episode of The Director's Chair is already available on the El Rey Network's FB page. He talks about more than just the ROCKY films but that franchise gets the bulk of the focus:

 

https://www.facebook.com/ElReyNetwork/videos/vb.255001614604275/714824561955309/?type=2&theater

Late to the party.

 

This IS great!  Thanks!

post #117 of 154
I'm sure most of you know that Rock IV, or more specifically, the reviews for Rocky IV were directly responsible for Jim and John Thomas writing Predator. The origin story is that there was a joke going around at the time that Drago was so ridiculous that Rocky would have to fight an alien in the next film. This put the idea into the heads of Jim and John Thomas to write a vehicle for Stallone where he'd go toe-to-toe with an alien opponent.

Rocky IV is surely the gift that keeps on giving.
post #118 of 154

I NEVER KNEW THAT

 

I'm learning so much today.

post #119 of 154

Wait, what?!?!  First time I heard this. 

post #120 of 154
I got that watching an interview years and years ago with either a studio guy or one of the Thompson brothers, but it looks like it's everywhere now. Some are misunderstanding the anecdote and think Predator was actually written as a sequel to Rocky IV or some silly shit like that, but no, it was just the germ of the idea with the hope that Stallone would want to do it.

I actually don't think it ever reached Stallone and likely went straight to Schwarzenegger soon after it hit Joel Silver's desk.

Now that I think of it, those rumors, if true, that Stallone was considering having Rambo fight a genetically engineered monster of some kind (before or after the last film) might be a clue that he is keenly aware of the origin story behind Predator.
post #121 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post
 

Sly's upcoming episode of The Director's Chair is already available on the El Rey Network's FB page. He talks about more than just the ROCKY films but that franchise gets the bulk of the focus:

 

https://www.facebook.com/ElReyNetwork/videos/vb.255001614604275/714824561955309/?type=2&theater

A neat bit of trivia I learned from this relating to CREED...

 

That bit about being 12 when he first experienced that feeling on the iconic steps... is autobiographical.

post #122 of 154
So far I'm five films in on my countdown, about to watch BALBOA and then tomorrow it's CREED.

First is just a classic. Hard to say anything new about that.

The second I don't like as much. It really slogs in parts, never getting interesting until the walls close on Rocky for opportunities beyond boxing. Apollo is very underused. We really should have gotten more of his side of the story this time having to deal with the pressure of the aftermath. I don't like that he demands a rematch when in the hospital, that should have came after all the hate mail. Adrian's "WIN. WIN." just comes out of nowhere, I never believe she would suddenly change her mind in coma. Overall it's just too melodramatic

III would have been a nice note to leave the series at. Not as heavy in character study like the first, but at least is breezy and more entertaining than the second. I only just learned that Stallone actually planned on this being the last and it feels more natural as one, especially with Rocky and Apollo, now best friends, having themselves a friendly fight at the end, with the last frame of them knocking eachother's head. It was perfect...

But then Stallone had to do a propaganda movie right after. AMERICA IS AWESOME! Check out how we can play in the pool with our dogs while watching TV! We have have robots that serve beer and become sex toys to drunken brother-in-laws! James Brown! Living in America, man! You take away all of that and put us in the snowy Siberian mountains and we're still more awesome than the Russians! And that it ends with Rocky making a speech that receives cheers and an applaud by Gorbachev. This is so over the top, dumb, and far removed from where the series started, but I find it highly entertaining at the same time. Just a guilty pleasure in a breezy 90 mins with 70 of it being montages.

And ROCKY V. I really appreciate the attempt to go back to the first film's roots, but the way it's done is so contrived and it never really ends in a proper fulfilling way. Does make me wish III had ended it right then and there and we'd have a pretty okay trilogy. Sage Stallone is not too bad as a child actor here, so nepotism kind of works here I guess.
post #123 of 154

As someone who saw Rocky V in light of all the hate I've seen it get over the years, I actually think the two new films have managed to use it to enrich each other (intentionally or not) both within the world of these characters and the meta-narrative of Stallone's career.

 

Both BALBOA and CREED end up building off of V's attempt to turn Rocky into Mickey.  In V itself, it becomes obvious that Rocky is trying to be a trainer for the wrong guy (Matt Damon) at the wrong time (still has stuff in the basement) for the wrong reasons (desperation and living vicariously through his pupil).  And he leans too hard on "this is what Mickey said!"

 

I only saw II, III and V in the past year.  But I enjoyed them all to various degrees.  I like II's shaggy attempts to be the first film again.  I enjoy III breaking out of that and going into something a lot broader and more entertaining.  I'll even enjoy IV as the overdone leap from that.  V is the contrived overcompensating correction from IV.  But it kinda works as a transition into BALBOA which 'officially' ends Rocky's boxing career.

 

And that works as the right transition to him being the RIGHT trainer in CREED.

post #124 of 154
I get it. V is that necessary step towards better films, however problematic it is by itself. It was touching to see Burgess Meredith return as Mickey, but the line "Mickey loves you" almost spoils it cause I just don't believe Mick would say that. I could believe it, but he's too much of a hardass to get that sentimental. At least for the timeline, as that's supposed to be taking place during the first film, whereas it would have been more natural by III when he actually moved in and became a part of the family.

Then again, Rocco got brain damage, so he's misremembering.
post #125 of 154

Also, it's shot and presented like such a FEVER DREAM in the film that I can't really take it as reality.  Hahahaha

 

It's still touching though.

 

And also...

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Mickey's line about waiting to die after all your loved ones have passed on or left you... gains a lot of resonant continuity in CREED.
post #126 of 154
I really dislike how ROCKY V is lit throughout. For all the attempts to get back to the first film, it never really looks or feels like it. The first film has a very raw and gritty look to it that makes it feel authentic, like you're really out there in the dirty parts of Philadelphia, but throughout V there's some distracting choices that gives it a stagey look, especially during night scenes. Even something as simple as dinner scene with Tommy Gunn talking about growing up. It feels like a TV movie.
post #127 of 154

90s moviemaking!

post #128 of 154

So I re-watched the original film today and something struck me.  All throughout the film, Creed talks about ending the fight in three rounds.  He chants it in the ring before the fight, and the announcers make pretty emphatic mention of it:  the fight isn't getting out of the third round.  So you'd think Rocky getting past the third round would be a big moment, or at least recognized.  And it's not!  We leap from the end of the second round into the fight montage which starts with the third round card being shown, then the fifth.  Seems like a missed opportunity to have what everyone thought would be the end of the fight go by unmentioned like that.

post #129 of 154

Perhaps that material, if shot, was cut for momentum.  They shot for that moment in the 3rd round with the intention of going to the montage right after, but realized in editing that the audience wouldn't have the patience to go through another round of Rocky getting pummeled?

post #130 of 154

Possibly.  But you also have Rocky knocking Apollo down in the first round.  Feels like you could have had Round 1 be Apollo toying with Rocky, Round 2 Rocky knocks him down to show he's not messing around, then Apollo lays it on in Round 3 but Rocky stands his ground and gets out of it.  That way you build to the moment without it being three rounds of pummeling.

post #131 of 154

True.  Just a guess on my part.  I've only seen the film 3 times in my life (I think) spread out over years.  I don't recall ever noticing what you did.  

post #132 of 154
First time it ever occurred to me.
post #133 of 154
Didn't realize that either. With all the talk of going the distance, the three rounds thing went over my head.
post #134 of 154
Imagine the film coming out now...

I WOULD BE ALL OVER IT

THIS GODDAMNED MOOBIE!!'

oh yes
post #135 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
 

So I re-watched the original film today and something struck me.  All throughout the film, Creed talks about ending the fight in three rounds.  He chants it in the ring before the fight, and the announcers make pretty emphatic mention of it:  the fight isn't getting out of the third round.  So you'd think Rocky getting past the third round would be a big moment, or at least recognized.  And it's not!  We leap from the end of the second round into the fight montage which starts with the third round card being shown, then the fifth.  Seems like a missed opportunity to have what everyone thought would be the end of the fight go by unmentioned like that.

I've seen Rocky so many damn time and never noticed this before, but I can see why it's not a factor because this was Creed's thing and it didn't matter for Rocky, and since we live through Rocky it didn't matter to us.  

post #136 of 154

Well Rocky disproves Creed on three counts: Creed has never been knocked down, plans to end it in three rounds and no one has ever gone the distance with him.

 

I think once Rocky knocks Creed down, something he hadn't really planned on, the latter two get conflated. There's a similar moment in Balboa when all he wants to do is, yet again, go the distance but once he actually knocks Mason Dixon down Rocky is visibly amped, goes back to his corner and punches it.

 

Creed only bragged about three rounds because he didn't think of Rocky as a threat. Once Rocky knocks him down, it's not about three rounds anymore, it's about taking Rocky out as quickly as possible. Which we see in the rest of round 1 and 2, Creed is blitzkrieging Rocky.

 

So the fact that Rocky survives even a minute after Creed has been embarrassed (citing Balboa again, Dixon says at the press conference, "I get pissed, this guy gets hurt.") means that three rounds is off the table.

 

Three rounds was Creed's initial goal; he gets knocked down, his goal is knock Rocky out as quick as possible. Go the distance is Rocky's initial goal; he knocks Creed down, he suddenly realizes he could actually win. Both have an evolving narrative.

post #137 of 154

That's real good Bart!

post #138 of 154

Yep, probably could have summed it up in one sentence, but I had to go the distance.

post #139 of 154

ey yo, you're a real ham & egger

post #140 of 154

Bart nails it.  

post #141 of 154

It's by no means a deal breaker.  Just thought it was an interesting choice.

post #142 of 154

No, no.  Thanks for bringing it up because I have never thought of that.  

post #143 of 154

ENOUGH OUT OF YOU, DICKSON!!!

post #144 of 154

Dare I mention that, in screen time, the final round is nowhere close to being a full length boxing round? :p

post #145 of 154

That's enough Richard.  

 

post #146 of 154

post #147 of 154
I read a great post recently about how the Rocky franchise was broken from the moment he beat Creed in II. The whole thing with Rocky was that he wasn't a particularly good fighter. In the first one he is thirty and even then Mickey is suggesting retirement saying he could have been great. The great win is that his sheer will carried him through the entire match (far outdoing the three rounds as Richard noted). That the sequel has him beating Creed, even barely, suggests that he was this great champion after all, betraying the message of the first. Of course by the third he's protecting cops from a rampaging Hulk Hogan so it's all out the window.
post #148 of 154

Eh, I'm not convinced it betrays anything. The series as a whole is about Going The Distance™ at various points in life, I don't think it was a requirement for him to never fully succeed for that to come across. If he didn't evolve the series wouldn't have either.

 

I do find Rocky II the least interesting of the films for that reason, though. It's sleepily paced and always feels to me like the only point to it's existence is to get Rocky to the inevitable point where he wins.

post #149 of 154
Rocky II exists for everything after Adrienne says, "Win."
post #150 of 154

The fight is good, I'll give it that.

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