HBO's Game of Thrones - Page 27

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Originally Posted by Jmacq1

 

I'll say this:  Starks are a fair bit more canny when it comes to war than politics.  Ned's reputation was largely as a warrior (hence the reason Jaime was so eager to get into a pissing match with him from the get-go), and a lot of folks considered him the "brains" of Robert's Rebellion (though that hasn't really been explicitly stated on the show, and he kinda shared that role with Jon Arryn).  The pragmatism Ned showed when he explained why he doesn't fight in tournaments is pretty representative of Starks at war.

This. The Starks know war, and know how to prosecute it successfully. I haven't watch last night's ep yet, but in the book, at least, Robb's surrounded by older veterans who can give experienced advice on tactics and strategy.
 

Drogo rips throats. Thats what he does. 2 more and he gets the Turkey.

And a question from someone who has not read the books......the last 2 episodes have featured Jon and then Bran praying to the Gods, and in front of either a tree or rock/stone (couldn't really tell) that appears to be a face crying blood.......what is that? Is that the symbol of their Gods? Do they carve these, or are they naturally there?....both shots creeped the hell out of me.....

The Starks, as well as other families of the North, follow an older religion than those in the south.  They worship the "Old Gods" who are represented by the Heart Trees you mention.  I believe the faces are carved into the Trees.  In the south, they worship the "Seven", which represent seven different aspects of a single god.  You see this religion in the Sept at King's Landing.   

Also, IIRC, the faces in the trees either appear "naturally" (i.e., are not carved) or were carved by the Children of the Forest, a race not seen in a long time and presumed extinct. I don't have the books handy and haven't read them in a while, so can't remember the origins of the faces in the weirwood trees.

In regards to Drogo, this show is the single best piece of marketing the new Conan movie could ever hope for. I'm going into Conan assuming it's akin to 'The Rise of Khal Drogo', and while I am sure I will be disappointed (there's probably 100% less ripping-tongue-through-throat in it), damn Mamoa is okay in my book.

Yeah, I was just going to say that you can say what you want about Marcus Nispel (most commonly: "who?"), but people cannot possibly be underwhelmed by the casting of Jason Momoa at this point.

I am so lost to this show now I'm beginning to lose all perspective on it. I'm even starting to take it personally when people paint the Starks as dense or stupid. It's gotten under my skin and into my marrow.

Beyond brilliant. In thirty four years in this world, this is as good an entertainment as I've ever seen on television.

Thanks guys. I thought I remembered, in the last episode, Jon wanting to take his vows/oath for the Wall via the "old ways" (or something along those lines). And then seeing Bran pray in front of a similar symbol....just wanted to get that cleared up.

And maybe it was just me, but I thought this was the BEST LOOKING episode yet.

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Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

Beyond brilliant. In thirty four years in this world, this is as good an entertainment as I've ever seen on television.

Good. It's not just me then.

Last night's episode was written by Martin himself, if y'all noticed.

I need some clarification: is the zombie thing that Jon fought at the Wall a White Walker, or is it some puppet pawn thing of the actual White Walkers? I recall from the first episode seeing two distinct enemies, the dead girl with blue eyes and some beast from beyond that beheaded that one dude. Are the Walkers a separate race or are they like some parasitic organism or something?

And given that in no time in the history of always has a character, whose screams we hear off screen, been actually killed, so here's hoping we see more of Syrio. And he teams up with Arya and they wage a hit and run campaign across the seven kingdoms using nothing but wooden swords.

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Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

I am so lost to this show now I'm beginning to lose all perspective on it. I'm even starting to take it personally when people paint the Starks as dense or stupid. It's gotten under my skin and into my marrow.

Relax, I just think it's fun to make the occasional DERPDERP joke at a fictional character's expense.  It's pretty clear that Robb's threat is misdirection, what with the "it means you're not stupid" line and the scene with his mother showing that he understands the whole "win-or-die" aspect of the thing.  I'm surprised that none of his advisors seem to catch on to that however; it's hardly the most sophisticated of ploys. 

Maybe the most impressive thing about the episode was how bad it was able to make me feel for Sansa.  She spends seven hours doing literally nothing but whining and mooning over the most stompable face on television, but suddenly last night she was just a child in an impossible situation.  At least things are looking up for her, though!  If we know anything by now, it's that her father is canny and pragmatic enough to go along with the false confession to save his own life.

I'll spoilerize this, though it's not really a huge spoiler and a lot of it is my own speculation anyway:

Colour me surprised that all that White Walker stuff went down in this episode, by the way--I thought that was basically the climax of Jon's storyline this season, and would happen in the final episode.

The believe the White Walkers are the blue eye zombie things (you go Sam!). I mean, that's what they're explicitly called right? And at this point, all we know is that they're weird undead zombie things that can only be killed via fire (you go again Sam!). I'm curious if they're akin to zombies in that they're just mindless things looking for food or if they have a specific endgame. Like Sam said, what the White Walkers did, killing the Nights Watch guy and leaving them to be found implies intelligence but how deep does it go?

And yes, I'm a big fan of Sam. I love how Jeor Mormont pointed out how he was a coward but he was a smart coward. It's nice to show more than just Tyrion getting by with more than brawn.

Got to agree with Jacob - this thing moves at a tremendous clip. Even the static scenes just crackle with energy. Maybe I'm missing something but what was the significance of the guard waking Ned up towards the end with torch in hand? Not showing his face makes me think it's misdirection and that's actually Florel.

My nephew, who has now become a huge fan of the show,  just sent me this link about Momoa's throat ripping regiment : http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/05/game-of-thrones-episode-8/

Arya uses the pointy end. And now I'm just going to assume she escapes King's Landing, reteams with her direwolf, and all next season the two go on happy adventures, solving crimes and rescuing children from Dothraki slave pens.

Echoing the AV Club (newbies) recap, I will watch this show for season after season no matter where the quality goes and with no regret as long as at some point I get to watch Joffrey eat a hot painful drawn-out death. Hell of a job of making me hate you, Jack Gleeson.

In fact, all of these kid actors are doing so well I'm a bit worried about the showrunners having a Walt problem.

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Originally Posted by Bailey 

I so want to see Drogo vs. Jaime one on one.  It'd be like Jordan vs. Bird.  They could even make it a video game.

 

Hell, they could even make those  McDonald's commercials, "No weapons, through the throat, nothin' but tongue."

I have a feeling such a duel would quickly devolve to male rape.

Anyway, go Robb! Even though I have a feeling he's about to get schooled by the Lannisters. And Syrio definitely made it out alive.

Just want to say a big thanks to the guys who just spelled out the origins, weaknesses, and limitations of the inhuman creatures the show has been working to keep shrouded in mystery, superstition and menace.  In the non-spoiler thread.  Really.  Thanks.  Very cool.  

Where did I point out the "origins, weaknesses and limitations" of the zombies? They're freaking zombies. Nothing I said is a big reveal. Everything was there in the pilot for Pete's sake.

ETA: OK, there's one aspect that I thought everyone picked up on in the pilot, but which I suppose was left subtle and ambiguous for non-readers. I'll spoilerize that part and I apologize. If it helps, a lot of what I said was purely speculation.

Clearly they're zombies of a sort.  But how exactly they operate has been left ambiguous, and I imagine a decent portion of the Nightswatch storyline will involve them figuring out the stuff you guys (not just you, Prankster) just casually dropped in there. 

I know there was no ill intent, but it just goes to show how easy it is for talk of the books to spill into the spoilery, if only by revealing what you do and don't think is worth hiding or worrying about.  For example, without anyone getting into particulars, it was obvious from the early tone of the discussion amongst readers that Dany was going to have a much longer and more eventful arc than her brother (not that it was especially hard to see that one coming anyway, mind you).  I'd prefer to have no talk at all about the books here, as it's not a particularly long jaunt to the thread for that, but I know most people aren't as anal about such things.  So I'll settle for CONSTANT VIGILANCE, even if it means endlessly harping on you guys.

I've read the books and what Prankster said is entirely speculation. Trust me, he didn't ruin anything for you.

You're right. It's funny, because from a book-reading perspective it didn't seem like I was saying anything germane, but I guess when you're coming from a position of knowing nothing even vague "narrowing down the options" discussion becomes spoilery. For all you know the Others could all be possessed by the ghosts of Ice Parrots and fart electricity. Actually, for all *I* know that could be true. Anyway, clearly I shouldn't get into this, I just figured we all knew enough about the Walkers after this last episode to throw out some ideas (again, much of it speculative) without spoiling. But you're right, I'll try to be more careful. And I clearly initiated the discussion, so I take responsibility.

Finally caught the new ep.

Can someone just send a memo to everyone on this show telling them not to mess with Daenerys?  Seriously?  Drogo ain't playin' that shit!  Says something that the only times we've seen him good and pissed off is when somebody's insulting or endangering his wife.

He's a newlywed!

I always watch this show with my girlfriend and another couple, and both of the ladies think Drogo is just the most romantic dude in the world, particularly his post-assassination-attempt speech. Yes, rape included. I responded, "Hey, I'd rape all the women in the world for you too, baby." That didn't go over so well.

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 

Clearly they're zombies of a sort.  But how exactly they operate has been left ambiguous, and I imagine a decent portion of the Nightswatch storyline will involve them figuring out the stuff you guys (not just you, Prankster) just casually dropped in there. 

 

I know there was no ill intent, but it just goes to show how easy it is for talk of the books to spill into the spoilery, if only by revealing what you do and don't think is worth hiding or worrying about.  For example, without anyone getting into particulars, it was obvious from the early tone of the discussion amongst readers that Dany was going to have a much longer and more eventful arc than her brother (not that it was especially hard to see that one coming anyway, mind you).  I'd prefer to have no talk at all about the books here, as it's not a particularly long jaunt to the thread for that, but I know most people aren't as anal about such things.  So I'll settle for CONSTANT VIGILANCE, even if it means endlessly harping on you guys.

100%

I can't tell you how annoyed I have been by supposedly non-spoiler threads that say something the poster feels is innocent enough, but reveals way too much.  For a show that thrives on the premise than anything can happen at any time, just knowing a character is in another book is too much of a spoiler.

They're not alone, Prankster.  I'm pretty hot for the guy, too. 

And we wonder why modern relationships between the sexes are so messed up...

Every little girl dreams of a guy who would rip a tongue or two for her.  FACT.

for those of u contemplating Syrio's fate in this episode, i'm surprised none of u noticed that the Lannister henchman who chopped off Syrio's wooden sword was alive and well later on in the final court scene where Sir Barristan was dismissed from duty? So obviously Syrio didn't win that fight. He either got killed or somehow escaped. I haven't read the books so I don't really know Syrio's outcome, but I'd put my money on that he's dead.

and speaking of Syrio, i guess i'm in the minority here regarding his duel with 5 or so ARMORED & ARMED soldiers with just his wooden stick. I thought that fight was lame & laughably unrealistic. One hit by a wooden stick & these armored soldiers get knocked out cold? lmao, seriously. That was the only thing that irked me with this episode, but everything else was gold

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Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

Every little girl dreams of a guy who would rip a tongue or two for her.  FACT.

That was part of Carey Grants charm if I recall - that and the rapeyness.

Really awesome episode. Drogo* brings the gorysexy, and Syrio is or was so fucking awesome. Nerds will almost certainly take to his "god of death" line like nobody's business.

*Something tells me that trusting that witch to fix him up on his wife's suggestion was probably a bad idea. Afterall, bad ass warriors like Atilla the Hun and Genghis Khan didn't exactly die glorious deaths at swordpoint.

Frankly, I think I'll stick to my Cersei fantasies.

Oh! She's really sweet and gentle underneath that cruel scheming, and vicious attitude she has! She just needs the right girl to bring it out! Ohhhh..and maybe she can also flay, and gut, and butcher a bunch of people who look at her honey wrong....yeah...

God I'm said.

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Originally Posted by Au Eagle 

and speaking of Syrio, i guess i'm in the minority here regarding his duel with 5 or so ARMORED & ARMED soldiers with just his wooden stick. I thought that fight was lame & laughably unrealistic. One hit by a wooden stick & these armored soldiers get knocked out cold? lmao, seriously. That was the only thing that irked me with this episode

As a card-carrying hater of the books who only watched this episode of the show because that scene was the only thing I liked in the first book, I agree with you completely.  In the book Syrio doesn't just twat the guys around, he kills the first two or three before the practice sword breaks, and then is overwhelmed by the rest (iirc).  But they completely fucked up both the design of the practice swords (which are supposed to be thin and rapier-like, the same as Needle) and Syrio's fighting style (which is supposed to be an absurdly wicked fast fencing style.  To go even nerdier: think Raphael in Soul Calibur, turned up to 11).  They seriously couldn't find a professional fencer and undercrank the scene to make it work better?

I'm checking back out of this show now, because seriously:  It's not good.  Just like the books.  The thought of people drawing comparisons between this and The Wire, or Deadwood, or Rome, or even Battlestar Galactica makes me spectacularly angry.

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Originally Posted by Fafhrd 

As a card-carrying hater of the books who only watched this episode of the show because that scene was the only thing I liked in the first book, I agree with you completely.  In the book Syrio doesn't just twat the guys around, he kills the first two or three before the practice sword breaks, and then is overwhelmed by the rest (iirc).  But they completely fucked up both the design of the practice swords (which are supposed to be thin and rapier-like, the same as Needle) and Syrio's fighting style (which is supposed to be an absurdly wicked fast fencing style.  To go even nerdier: think Raphael in Soul Calibur, turned up to 11).  They seriously couldn't find a professional fencer and undercrank the scene to make it work better?

 

I'm checking back out of this show now, because seriously:  It's not good.  Just like the books.  The thought of people drawing comparisons between this and The Wire, or Deadwood, or Rome, or even Battlestar Galactica makes me spectacularly angry.

Thanks for the feedback.

I certainly did not get the impression that Syrio killed any Lannister guards - he merely appeared to knock them out. As Arya left, several of them appeared to wake/rise again;

And Syrio must be dead, for two reasons:

1. The knigsguard knight who cut his sword was seen later in the throne room as Ser Barristan is dismissed.

2. He asks Arya what they say to death, and *SHE* responds "not today". But Syrio does not say it. He knows his time is up.

Not 100% proof, but that is my interpretation and I am sticking with it! :)

I also think Syrio's dead.

I'll have to watch them all again, but this was definitely my favorite episode so far. So many great moments, so well translated to the screen. The swiftness with which Robb's able to gather the banners and march was a bit much, but I think I'm a lot more aware of that because of the books. If I was just watching the show, I doubt I'd even notice it.

Drogo's fight was fucking badass. "You are already dead!"

And yes, I'm sure Syrio's last words to Arya will be co-opted by nerds the world over. "Not today."

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Originally Posted by Fafhrd 

 

I'm checking back out of this show now,
 

Good. Go away.

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Originally Posted by Fafhrd 

I'm checking back out of this show now, because seriously:  It's not good.  Just like the books.  The thought of people drawing comparisons between this and The Wire, or Deadwood, or Rome, or even Battlestar Galactica makes me spectacularly angry.

Its definitely very flawed, but SO much better than Deadwood. Although truth be told, at this point into its run, Deadwood hadnt quite worn out its welcome with me yet. BSG, the wire, & Rome are better than GOT in almost every way.

Loved Syrio, Arya, the little bit of Ned we saw, and the Dothroki stuff, & Cersei. Thought the Rob, Mrs. Stark, Sansa, Dwarf, and Jon Snow stuff was just OK. The Bran/slave girl stuff seemed sort of like filler and the episode would have improved without it. Sansa became alot more relatable/likable this episode. Snow had his most interesting episode ever, but still wasnt a very compelling character. Also: hate his fat friend. Does anyone else find Rob so much more compelling of a character/actor than Snow?

FOr the person above asking about the gaurd kicking Ned. It was just to keep Ned awake (not letting him sleep in peace).

Barristan got screwed...."Hey did you murder all those innocent people like we asked? Good, now FUCK OFF."......Now I hope he helps break Ned out of prison. Damn I hate the Lannisters.

I think people are going a little overboard because seeing subject matter like this done well is like crack to most of us.  But to say the show is bad is absurd.  I have a feeling I am going to have some issues with the dialogue and the pacing, at the very least, when I revisit it down the road.  But, 8 episodes in, there's no reason to make any kind of pronouncements about the series anyway.  It's good, it's engrossing, we've never really seen anything on television quite like it before... that's enough.

It's way too early to place GoT into the very top echelon with Deadwood and The Wire, but I think it can slot easily in with the likes of Rome or Battlestar.  It's got engaging characters, a rich, detailed setting, and fantastic performances*, plus a plot that really moves.  If it's not a total grand slam, it's an easy stand-up triple. 

*From the children and adults, at least.  I haven't been super impressed by anyone between the ages of 16 and 30 as yet.

I've likened it to Rome when recommending it to friends, which at this point puts it at about the midpoint on my "Golden Age of TV" meter (below, say, The Wire and Deadwood, but above BSG or 24, and about even with The Shield and Jusitfied).

This show has a LOT in common with Rome, yes. Even at this early stage I'd put it above that show, though. And it might be in serious competition with BSG, though that's kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison.

I'm not sure how to rack it up against Deadwood or Carnivale. Both those shows tended to be rather glacially paced, something that is definitely not true in the case of GoT. But that's not the same as saying it's better. GoT is certainly the show you can't wait to watch all at once, whereas I think those other two shows worked better as something you dipped into once a week.

The problem I find comparing it to Rome though is the fact that this show has no true main character. The main character(s) to me are the houses themselves (Lannister, Stark, Targaryen) while Rome had three defined main characters, Pullo (the best character ever), Vorenus and Caesar (namesake and Octavian).

...I don't really follow your logic there. I'd say the main characters on GoT are Ned, Jon, and Dany, and maybe Tyrion and Arya (or maybe they're the show's Fonzies). In fact I think you can easily narrow it down to just Ned as the lead, as sprawling as the cast is. In that sense I think it's a lot like Deadwood, which had a nominal lead in Timothy Olyphant's character but with Al Swearengen being the true protagonist. Or Lost, with Jack as the supposed hero but Sawyer and Locke regularly stealing the spotlight.

Ratings update: the show hit a new high this weekend, with 2.7 million for the first showing and 3.6 million for the night. http://www.deadline.com/2011/06/game-of-thrones-hits-new-series-high/

Dothraki:  Grohma sheena rhaka kahnn...

Translation:  The things I do for dat pussy...

Guess it just goes to show that even in Westeros, women love da thugs.  :-)

On another note, as a huge fan of the books, I really, really, really hate this show.  I mean, its a good show, don't get me wrong.  But I don't think it comes close to doing the books justice.  I think a lot of that has to do with the directing.  So many epic scenes in the book don't feel epic at all in the show.  Jon's fight with the wight, for example, in the book was full of build-up and atmosphere, and the wight was much slower, more deliberate, and scary, and what Jon had to do to defeat it was much more painful than what they made it out to be in the show.  Even Syrio's showdown with Ser Meryn in the books was so much better than what they did in the show, and I think the reason is the direction doesn't take its time to properly build up the scenes and properly choreograph the fights.

But I digress.  If you people love the TV show, just know the books are like a billion times better.

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Originally Posted by Simon West will kill Again 

But I digress.  If you people love the TV show, just know the books are like a billion times better.

FWIW, the couple of people I know who have read the books feel almost 180 degrees opposite of that.

And since I plan to wait till HBO runs out the string on adaptations before trying the books, it'll be a while before I can decide that one for myself.

I'd also suggest that the disconnect between the idea of "really, really hating" what is regarded as "a good show" suggests that you haven't had much exposure to "really really bad" TV shows. There is stuff out there worthy of your hate.