In Putins Russia, president runs YOU...

Gotta give that Putin feller some respect. He keeps his peoples in line.

Whenever I read about a new happening, Im always reminded of this article I bookmarked a few months back for some reason:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062002596.html

Plus the guy knows judo.

So you know hes badass.

Nah it seems like the people there love him.

Either that or theyre too afraid to suggest otherwise.

Okay; so what, exactly, do you think President Obama should do?

Better yet, what CAN he do?

EDITED:

I am not trolling. I mean, Russia really does not need our money with their somewhat newly found oil & gas reserves. Economic sanctions would do nothing.

People love him because that's what the government tells you.

The Russian people have been dominated time and time again and this is really no different.

Obama wishes he was as cool as Putin.

I think we're seeing Western Europe begin to reconsider its reliance on Russian natural gas and energy supplies.

I think we're seeing a US that is increasingly wary of Russia.

I think we're seeing a greater awareness, worldwide, that Russia is a dangerous player and the Putin is, essentially, its new Czar.

However, there isn't much we can do about internal Russian politics. They don't need our money. They don't care about our opinion. We are not going to go to war with them. Not even Superman can fix this.

Train for two years and challenge Putin to Mortal Kombat to decide the fate of Earth.

Anyway...

Putin is dangerous, but he lays it on so fucking thick. It's almost like he wants to be a real world supervillain.

Has his own country? Check.

Has his own army/navy/air force/space progam/superweapons? Check.

Has superspy training? Check.

Hunter who parades around the wilderness with a giant knife? Check.

Martial arts master? Check.

Keeps exotic, dangerous pets that can kill a man? Check.

I mean, what the fuck? Never mind the military or the CIA, it will take nothing less than S.H.I.E.L.D. to stop this man.

The only thing we can do is wean ourselves of fossil fuels as best we can, in order to weaken petro-dictators or those with petro-dictator tendencies. Easier said than done, of course, but its been the solution that been sitting right in front of us for decades now.

Well, I can tell you what certainly can help in Russia's case. Stop freaking out about everything. Also stop assuming that every person on earth has the same viewpoint you do and if they support Putin they must be under threat. Russians think and behave differently than Americans, as do Norwegians, or Greeks, or Italians, or Chinese, or Indians. Greece has a big Russian community and I've spoken with many Russians. Putin's popularity is a direct result of the epic clusterfuck that drunk imbecile Yeltsin's presidency turned out to be. And if everyone hadn't run to kick them when they were down they certainly wouldn't have the reaction they do.

I hope the new US administration will realise that 90% of the world's tyrants were created -directly or indirectly- by the catastrophically shortsighted US foreign policy.

The geniuses at State Department supported the Shah in Iran and his regime was so brutal that the people preferred a theocracy and still hate America.

Saddam Hussein grew powerful because he was eager to play ball with America against Iran.

And Putin is overwhelmingly popular because he reversed the damage done by those in Russia who followed the American recipe for an economic shock, which included rapid privatisations and the elimination of aid and benefits towards the people.

President Obama should try looking at the greater picture and taking into account the longterm consequences of his actions.

This. And times a million.

SHIELD's gonna need a whole quinjet of Avengers for this Dr Doom wannabe. If he starts talking about himself in the third person and wearing a cloak and shiny armor, call the President.

You are wrong here. In addition to providing him the opportunity to rise to power the existing circumstances also determin what kind of a leader the population will accept. When in a matter of months you see the empire you grew up in crumble all around you and your city turn from one of the safest in the world into post-Saddam Baghdad you become much more succeptible to some strongman promising to fix things up. And make no mistake, Putin in regards to delivering on his campaign promises is among the better politicians today.

Now we come to my remark about not freaking out. Assuming that Putin is a danger, finger pointing and saber rattling would only serve to reinforce him. Freedom is not served by putting up walls and isolating people. It needs open communication. If you want to rid the world of 'tyrants' you have to work to remove the circumstances enabling their existence. It may take longer and be a gradual, less impressive change than the Berlin Wall being torn down, but it will be less painful for everyone and more importantly, permanent.

Putin came to power through a staged terrorist attack. He solidified and expanded his power through another staged terrorist attack. He is genuinely loved by the Russian people, as far as I can tell. I am friendly with two former Soviet physicists who maintain close ties with their family in Russia. These people lived through Stalin (they are in their 80s). They fucking love Putin. Their family loves Putin. Their >much< younger daughter loves Putin. The 25 year old music major I occasionally collaborate with loves Putin, and he's about as liberal as you can get.

I just don't think you can project American liberal values to the Russian people. They are different. They value strength, order, and stability. I think that that is fair to say, and when you consider that around 100 million Russians died as a result of the conflicts beginning with World War I and ending with Stalin's purges, I don't think those values are unreasonable or opaque. Then consider the results of 'democratizing' Russia and the subsequent gangster capitalism and you might start to understand why Russians love Putin. He stands for a strong, stable, respected nationalism. This becomes even more important when you look at the mortality rates and the declining population.

Of course, Putin's nationalism is xenophobic, virulently racist, and absolutely oppressive. I never said any of these things were necessarily positive. But that's how it is: to many Russian citizens, Putin and his brand of muscular government is the only thing separating their proud country from a failed state. Without qualifying or equivocating it, Putin has not been in power as long as say, an FDR. The challenges facing Russia certainly are on par with the Great Depression. When Putin starts murdering millions of his countrymen, then yes, let's say he's as bad as Stalin. Until that point, though, we have to realize that our value system and cultural perspective means jack shit to the Russian people.

Stelios, I'm not sure if you were trying to be offensively condescending, or whether the offensive condescension was merely an ESL byproduct. Which was it?

to be replaced by Nigerian and Iranian energy supplies? Alaskan maybe? Even if Western Europe does have the technological capacity to do anything about this, Eastern Europe doesn't. Many of these Eastern European nations are in the EU. Russia casts a looming shadow over all of Europe.

The important question is: what does Russia want from Europe (and, by extension, the United States)?

Frank, I was responding to these. What is so condescending about it?

That's a great question. I have some guesses, but none I'm willing to stand behind.

I took your post as condescending because it seemed to echo the standard "Americans are insular buffoons" line.

Last night, I was having dinner with some friends when the subject of Russia came up. This wasn't much of a surprise, since two of the friends were a couple consisting of an American diplomat who specializes in Russian affairs and an ethnically Russian Uzbeki businesswoman. The woman was talking about her aunt, who was there on a visit and who adores Putin. Since her aunt gets her news from Russian media, she sees an entirely different man than the rest of us do. This, I opined, is because Russian journalists who are overly critical take a chance on waking up to a uranium breakfast. My friends agreed, saying that Putin's running a first class propaganda machine.

This is an important consideration when considering domestic (and Russian expatriate) support for Putin and his policies. Yes, the Russian character is unique and, yes, Russians are reacting to the chaos of the Yeltsin years and, yes, a strong ruler who can lift the average person's standard of living is welcome in many quarters. But Putin has Russian journalism so thoroughly tamed that those who rely on Russian sources for their news can't see the whole picture. We here in the non-Russian world do, in fact, have a better perspective on Putin because we can see more of the picture. Our criticism is not a function ethnocentrism or myopia, and I was concerned that you were dismissing it as such.

Generally speaking, I guess it wants what every other country does. Expansion of its geopolitical power. It's trying to set up itself as a viable alternative to the US. The US controls more or less the Middle Eastern oil supply so every move Russia makes is to ensure they control Caucassus. This is where Europe comes in. A stronger Russia is seen by many (including myself) as a way to shift the heavily US leaning balance of power towards us. A Russia able to challenge the US geopoliticaly means that Europe turns from playing second fiddle to the US, into a sort of tie-breaker. Whoever gets Europe on their side gets the upper hand. So that means much more bargaining power, whether its for trade agreements or military alliances. It also provides one more bonus. It will sound cynicall but here it is. The Eastern European countries, mostly Poland and the Baltic states will no longer feel that the US will be able to protect them and will in turn become more cooperative with Western Europe in strategic matters.

It's a potentially dangerous game but one we must play.

I wasn't trying to be condescending in the least. I was saying that evaluating a situation by projecting your values to different people leads to wrong conclusions.

And yes, Putin's government has total control over the local media (something that many western governments would love to). I often watch english speaking Russian news channels and it's clear as day. But sadly the West always chooses to back as opposition to Putin people closely associated with Yeltsin's gangster capitalists. Putin will never lose against them. Hell, Andropov's mummy would never lose against them.

Andropov's Mummy = great name for a band.

The U.S. interests in dealing with the Russians are not served by speaking to the decline of democracy within the Russian Federation. It plays into Putin’s characterizations of the U.S. as a hegemonic power intent on dictating the way Russia’s sovereign government functions, and it ignores that fact that we have a vital interest in cooperating with Russia, regardless of how their (extremely popular) internal government functions. To publicly question Putin’s seizure of power in Russia, serves no one but Putin. There are many steps the U.S. can take to help ourselves and make Russia a less dangerous power, but saber rattling, towards an implacably entrenched Putin, serves no one.

There's a distinction between recognizing Putin's seizure of power, and the decline of Russia into a kleptocracy, and sabre- rattling. Ignoring these factors would be counterproductive, as a holistic understanding of world events is vital to the formulation of a sound foreign policy.

I believe our incoming administration knows this very well. They've alluded to it frequently during the last year in the run-up to the election.

It's the 90% of the American public, I fear, that doesn't get it. If you got a peek into our history classes and books, you'd be horrified at how little we know about the world beyond the local mall.

(Actually, if you watched the GOP convention or any subsequent rally, you probably have an inkling.)

I've been saying it for years: Putin is a Bond villian come to life. His actions. His look. His judo skills.

So, 80,000 people took to the streets in subzero temperatures to protest what they are calling a rigged parliamentary election.  Rigged because Putin was "reelected" president. 

 

 

Pretty incredible.  Good luck, Russian people. 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/24/russia-europe-news

This is really great.  In the late nineties it seemed like  Russia was on its, lurching, awkward,  way to being a European country.  (a sentence that'd make a lot of Russians want to punch me in the face, regardless of any progressive attitudes they hold, but you know what I mean.  I think 'Russian Ark' was a late product of the optimistic sentiment that was cutting through all the corruption and organised crime).  Then economic strife, terrorism and weird wars and we end up as per sentiments already expressed in the thread.

Oldies liking a strong leader to make them great again; 20-somethings trying to reclaim Stalin as a national hero (seen this one on the net up close.  Tough nut to crack as WWII basically hands the title to him regardless of everything else), journalists being knocked off with little being done about it (Russia needs wikileaks so bad).

 

Even if the election wasn't rigged it's great to see some opposition.

 

 

Putin wouldn't be what he is today if Yeltsin wasn't such a shameful fucking disaster. Russia was in no any way to become a European country under him. Ask any Russian off the street what he thinks and he'll gladly tell you. He was seen as a corrupt, weak willed drunk whose only accomplishment was turning a bunch of nobodies into billionaires by handing them overnight Russia's natural resources in exchange for scraps. Worse yet he was seen as a puppet. As a jester. Russians do not take kindly to being laughed at. So naturally they gravitated towards what was seen as his polar opposite. No one is laughing at Putin's Russia.

 

 

Oh sure, it wasn't the establishment that was going to do it.  It was a more open, outward looking spirit that seemed to have disappeared under Putin.    It's just an impression anyway.  Some writers never stopped talking like that.  I suppose it was more that people seemed mostly happy with or indifferent to Putin (or perhaps defeated by as well).  Nice to see them loudly unhappy.

Putin at this point is pretty much a benign dictator, as much so as an american president that endorsed the assassination of an American citizen and continues to commit war crimes...

Putin assassinates journalists. I'm against the assassination of American citizens, but to compare Obama to Putin because Obama targets that American cleric guy is a stretch I do not endorse

Meh...according to our President, only one US citizen in particular is a dick. In Russia, Putin runs the country as if all citizens were dicks. It's apples & vodka.

 

 

That's pretty hysterical. Go ahead and try to make a go of it in Russia. Feel free to post thoughts like that on the internet. Then, if you make it back, let us know how much Obama's like Putin.

It's relative. I don't have to tell you about all the human rights violation under the Obama administration.

I don't think it would seem that relative if you were over there instead of over here. I think you'd see the difference pretty quickly.

LOL