Fred Phelps may be coming to my city

Shred that fucker with your werewolf claws, WG.

I just hope it is a full moon that night.

Fuck that noise. I can't see how Phelps' bullshit can fly in Canada at all. We gots hate speech laws.

Well time to burn shit down I guess.

I'd really like to go to Westboro Baptist Church someday, just to see what kind of security they have. I'm really surprised that place hasn't been infiltrated, heckled, and YouTubed to high heaven.

I'm stunned they let the man into Canada. Seriously.


EDIT: Hold on a moment.

So... he could be arrested? Vancouver better represent.

He'll pretty much have to incite a murder to be nailed under our hatespeech laws.

I think there can be no greater protest to this fucker than for there to be a mass Canadian gay orgy on every street corner in Vancouver that day.

Yeah, but we also have free speech. I hope Phelps is allowed into Canada, is allowed to speak, and no one hears him over the boos.

Wait a second...

You have Forget Me Nows? I may have a use for them, cause, you know...last night got a little rough.

I like this idea, it can be applied to so many situations.

1/25/200810:30 AM - 12:00 PMPittsburgh, PASt. Paul Cathedral - Baker Knoll is in HELL! Fifth Ave at Craig Street We will picket this evil woman's funeral. She lived a lot of years, and THEN decided that she had not done enough evil in the world. So, she became a politician. Shame on her! She was a big part of the decision to make gospel preaching a crime in Pennsylvania. She no doubt is in hell, and her being in that position to begin with shows you that God hates her and Pennsylvania, to wit: Isa 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. AND Pr 30:20 Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness. AMEN!

That's from the Westboro Baptist Church website. Our Lt. Gov died of cancer last week and this is what we get.

That statement sounds pretty close to something someone would say around the time of the Spanish Inquisition, the only difference being they tortured people to confess their sins. I'm sure these people would do that as well if they could.

I can never figure out why people give the Spanish Inquisition such a bad rap. most people tried by the Spanish Inquisition were there voluntary. As bad as it may sound today it was head and shoulders above the civic legal system of the time. In Spain of the time it was better to be tried by the church then the government.

As far as Phelps and his followers go Paul said it best

Romans 11:9 And David says, [ Psalm 69:22, 23] "Let their table become a snare and a trap,a stumbling block and a retribution for them;


Romans 14:13 [ Do Not Cause Another to Stumble ] [ Matt 7:1 ] Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide [1 Cor 8:13] never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.


1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ [Gal 5:11; 1 Pet 2:8] crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,


1 Corinthians 8:9But take care [1 Corinthians 10:23; Rom 14:21; Gal 5:13 ] that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block [Rom 14:1, 2] to the weak.


1 Corinthians 6:12[ Flee Sexual Immorality ] [1 Corinthians 10:23] "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.


1 Corinthians 10:23 [ Do All to the Glory of God ] [1 Corinthians 6:12; 1 Corinthians 8:9] "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.


1 Timothy 1:8Now we know that [Rom 7:16] the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,

Well, without going into a full on history lesson, lets take a look at the definition of Inquisition, as it was at the time:

The monarchs founded the Inquisition for mostly reasons of greed and weakening the opposition. Was it better than the medieval inquisitions? Even that's debatable. But trust me, you wouldn't have wanted to be alive during that time. Everything was controlled by religion, or in the name of, and if they even suspected you of 'sin,' they tortured you using a variety of methods until you confessed (this, of course, was considered the best way to get a confession at the time). And then they killed you anyway, through more torture.

As an interesting side note, these methods of torture included drawing and quartering, which was the act of making an incision in ones abdomen, removing his intestines, and burning them in front of the half dead victim. Once he was dead, his head and limbs were cut off, preserved, and displayed to the public. Sometimes, if they really felt nasty, they'd attach the victims arms and legs to four horses, and make them walk in opposite directions until the limbs were torn from is body.

The nastiest was the Strappado, which was five stages of torture. 1) The victim was stripped, wrists bound behind his back, and was threatened to confess. If he didn't, they 2) raised the victims arms behind his back by a rope attached to a pulley until he was lifted off his feet, and was asked to confess again. If he didn't, 3) He was suspended for a longer time, which broke his arms and dislocated his shoulders. Still no confession? 4) The suspended victim was suspended and violently jerked up and down. The fifth involved attaching weights to his legs and jerking him up and down. Most of the time, these weights were several cannonballs, which would usually rip the guys legs from his body.

So yea, Spanish Inquisition. Great times.

It was not that simple as you are trying to make it out to be. I have studied it, and think you should maybe study it some more. I am not saying that those were the good old days. The ones that were tortured were not there for most sins, just “heresy,” Those poor fools were still better treated by the church then most prisoners were tried by the king justice. The Inquisition was founded and controlled by the church, and not the monarchs. The Inquisition was about keeping the power of Royalty in line as anything else.

Wait, so you're telling me that the Inquisition wasn't started by Catholic Monarchs Ferdinand II and Isabella I in 1478? I just checked my history text, cause admittedly it's been a couple years, and that's what it's telling me.

Either way, it was an interesting time. You're right, I do need to do some more reading on it, and a lot was going on that I probably missed.

Is this the new 'racism and eugenics aside'?

The thing about the Inquisition is that, on paper, it was a more "advanced" legal system than others at the time. It had a very precise procedure*, and they kept detailed records (part of the reason its so much more well-known than other crazy justice systems). Of course, the corruption was so pervasive that all the paper rights gave the accused absolutely no substantive protections.

*My favorite bit is that they only used the infamous torture stuff, like the rack and our ol' buddy the waterboard, for interrogations. It was considered cruel to torture as punishment (although executions, floggings, and exile were all kosher), but a fabulous way to get information. Sound familiar?

I forgot about the Spanish Inquisition being started by the monarchs and it was pretty bad tell the church took it back over, but still better then the civic courts in Spain at the time. they still had to follow procedures set up by the Holy See, and most of the inquisitors had a university education in law. The punishments almost always less then the civic courts. anyway you slice it it was still better then civic courts at the time. I am not saying they were fair and balanced, just better then the alternatives. Technically Ferdinand II and Isabella I still had to have Pope's support to do it.

I can't believe I'm responding to you, but...what are you talking about? The Church was never in control of the Spanish Inquisition -- it was a nearly 400 year instiutition established and governed by the crown.

And all those "not as bad as other courts" in Spain claims? 40% of every case in the first 60 years resulted in the death penalty. Something like 2,000-3,000 people were killed in the first few decades -- and that's just the one's that were put to death. Thousands more were jailed for freakishly long periods of time or indefinitely.

In fact, the Inquisition's favorite thing to do when they couldn't prove even to their standards that you were a heretic was to "suspend" your trial and then harass you for the rest of your life with threats of reopening the case if you ever stepped out of line again. Not to mention the social stigma of having been accused of heresy.

The Spanish Inquisition was not "nice" compared to any other inquisition or court -- they were just as bad. They just kept better records.

Sort of on topic - WG, what's up with globeandmail? $4.95 to read one article? Eff that.

I think you bought in to Black Legend propaganda. I am no fan of the Catholic Church, but they are not as bad as some Protestants would have you believe. The total deaths were less then 2000 for the whole thing if I remember right, and that is with over 130000 or 150000 heresy cases in total.

Here's a lengthy newspaper series about the family and their ideas. The series was supposed to be published in The Kansas City Star, but was killed by the publisher. It provides a certain amount of insight into how the family came to be the way it is.

Addicted to Hate

To be fair, no one expected this.

And thanks for the link, that was a great read even if I'd love to shine my boots using the faces of damn near every member of the Phelps family/congregation.