Happy Anniversary, Jonestown!

Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple is still one of the most gutting documentaries I've ever seen. As someone without that much knowledge of the events seeing it all unfurl over 80 minutes was a major headfuck. In fact you can see it HERE, well worth the time.

I was considering making a thread on this. But man between this and the Milk assassination. November '78 must have been a bitch.

But I concur with what Spike was saying about the documentary. That was heart wrenching.

But from that documentary I had learned how connected the Peoples Temple was to George Moscone's election.

I remember watching the Powers Boothe miniseries more than anything. It's been a long time, but I remember it being a pretty chilling miniseries. Boothe was incredible in it.

He must have looked uncanny to Jones.

There was also a great piece recently in the LA Weekly about a guy who discovered correspondence from the family that used to live in his house. A family that died at Jonestown.

Found here.

Yup. Uncanny.

Phil, Spike, and Ed: Thank you for the links.

No problem. I'll have to check out the youtube links later today. But that Weekly piece was very good.

I still have the Powers Boothe mini series on VHS. One of the few that I didn't get rid of.

I was 9 at the time so I remember watching the whole thing go down.

Someone get Singer in here. The guy was 17 at the time.

dam he that much older then I am? I feel better already

I watched the 2 hour CNN PRESENTS documentary over the weekend. Even though I was a little kid at the time, I'll never forget that TV footage of just all those bodies everywhere. And the video of the gunmen at the airfield. But one thing I don't know if I'll ever understand is how Jones was able to manipulate that many people to end themselves and their children like that, especially given that there was significant discontent and skepticism amongst some of his followers in those last days. Even listening to those original audio tapes, I don't sense any kind of charisma or magnetism on Jones' part. I guess his followers really fell for his fake miracles and healings.

Thank you, Spike.

I believe part of it had to do with brain washing. The technique was to always keep the followers so busy that they would always be tired and have no idea what was actually going on with them.

There are 3 or 4 good documentaries on Jone and his church. He was brain washing those people for years, and as early as 71 or 73 he was doing suicide drills.

On a side note Jone is the only guy I have every heard with a more minimal laugh then I have. My laugh is more class movie villain. His is in a class by itself. His laugh kind of scares me, and I just don't scare that easy.

Yeah, I'm watching the doc that Spike linked to and I'm starting to get it. So far, only 10 minutes it, I think it's already far more insightful than the CNN piece.

Huh. Goes to show what I know, I was under the impression that the suicide was a dupe, that Jones had managed to trick everyone into taking the Kool Aid. The fact that they all willingly drank it and quietly sat down is infinitely more frightening.

look up Jones' loyalty tests. I think the first one was in the early 70s. He was at a Church board meeting and after everyone drank the lemon aid he tells the board it was poisoned, and they all only have minutes to live. After that the test got more complex, and spread to the whole church. There as also public( with in the whole church) of beating of any one who did not follow the rules. It was pretty much classic group brain washing, start small and always up the ante. Group brain washing is not full proof. Not everyone will go along, but a surprising number will always go along with anything. If you just work the group up to it. Start with a small group doing little things, and build up in both numbers and weight of activity. Remember not everyone went along with the suicide, a minority were murdered, because they refused to go along.

I was 11 when this went down - one night NBC broadcast Congressman Leo Ryan getting assassinated (I remember the trailer with the gunmen popping out), the next day was the footage of hundreds of dead bodies. Very chilling stuff, especially when the reports started coming in on how everyone committed suicide, the Kool-Aid, etc.

Thanks Spike. That was (I was going to say glorious)...an eye-opener.

I used to know a great joke about Jonestown but I forgot it. The punch line was too long.*

*Rest in peace, Uncle Ralph. You funny man you.

From Wikipedia:

I thought this was amusing.

ETA: Moltisanti, awesome as always.

Well like I said. It's believed that the Peoples Temple got Moscone and Milk elected to their seats. That race was an extremly close one.

Tee-fucking-hee.

Or to quote Patton Oswalt:

"Wackity-Schmackity-Do!"

Jim Jones definitely had charisma, take a look at some footage of him giving a sermon, especially without the sunglasses. The sunglasses only added to the mystique. It's the same as so many other religious leaders, they're great theatrical talent. As an example, I have no allegiance to Louis Farrakhan, but the man was a very talented speaker. Combine that with people who want to believe, and who want to be led and you've got some nice building blocks right there.

I was around when this happened, and I recall seeing ads for Boothe miniseries, but at the age of 7 - 8, I really didn't understand what it was about. I don't recall hearing about the event when it happened, but pieced it together over the years. I do remember Son of Sam happening "in real time", though.

And thanks to Nekkerbee for showing me what molt did there. I almost missed that. And considering how much I like bad puns, that would've been a crying shame.

Those audio tapes are some of the most chilling things Ive ever heard personally.

As with Phil, this coming on the evening news is(after Elvis) also my first real vivid memory of death news in which I fully understood the gravity of the situation.

Something about the whole nightmarish story stuck with me from the beginning. It took years of study to get under this guy's skin. Tim Reiterman's 'Raven', a particularly frank and frighteningly thorough book is apparently back in print. I grabbed it from the library in my early 20s but just noticed it at Borders freshly reissued with some new material. For anyone interested, I would highly recommend it. It'll make a good companion with the Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple doc. I managed to get my hands on that doc some time ago and when I popped it in to watch, I couldn't get past even the opening without getting emotional. My wife, who is a bit younger than myself, has no real memory of Jonestown, except as the grim source of endless kool-aid jokes. For her, the subject matter was disturbing but not quite as immediate. Needless to say, I watched it alone with my childhood ghosts. The recent news network program is fairly well done and can boast the latest in interviews, but the Stanley Nelson doc film is the real "must-see".

Here's an ap article from Reiterman about the new memorial in Oakland, Ca. Following their ongoing efforts to get this memorial placed has been quite moving. Their dedication to the memory of 900 people who only seem to rate mention once every November is quite heartening.

Naturally the film depictions carry some significant interest for me. The Powers Boothe tele-film is a very good dramatic depiction with very little sanitizing beyond the usual tv restrictions. The cast is well picked for their dramatic chops and all go a long way toward realizing a story that almost seems to preposterous to believe. I spent years trying to track down a decent tape of that, finally discovering it in a carboard box of porn at the Columbus Flea Market.

If and when anyone gets curious, I also have the insidiously sleazy GUYANA: CULT OF THE DAMNED. This monstrosity was the brainchild of Rene Cardona Jr, son of the sleaz-teur responsible for SURVIVE!. With names changed to protect the innocent(?) Stuart Whitman sweats through a grindhouse version of one Jim Johnson's rise and fall. Paycheck-on-a-string-following appearances by Joseph Cotten, Yvonne De Carlo and John Ireland add a smarmy coat of fading class to the creepy film. It does, as far as any bright spots go, star the "dill man" himself, Bradford Dillman. (I can watch anything with this guy.) HBO ran this tawdry affair quite a bit in it's early years. As much as I delight in grindy b-pictures, I always feel a small bit of guilt when watching it. Just bringing it up in the context of this somber thread makes me feel dirty. I liken it to my feelings about the porn THE HORNEYMOONERS...I love porn and have a sincere feeling for The Honeymooners, yet having them in the same sandwich just doesn't jive.(Sorry I can't think of a better way of explaining that)

As for the Harvey Milk/Jim Jones thing. Hardly news(to those familiar with the tragedy) and hardly significant. Jones fooled alot more people and to a much more horrific end. History works in mysterious ways...semetimes tragedy comes from sincere intentions, sometimes positives arise from tragedy. With Jonestown, a stark lesson should have been learned in an unmistakable way. Sadly, Waco and the latest polygamy sects prove that the warnings of the danger of closed sects that history had given these recent folks had been forgotten or ignored and that the urgent plea of 900 ghosts to deal with these situations before a tragedy erupts has continually been missed by authorities.

I don't go to church and have my own personal ideas on faith, but I say a little prayer for the souls who perished at Jonestown. And I hate God for his hideous sense of irony...

One of the reasons Jones was so popular at the time was he preached inclusion of all races, ages and lifestyles. And then promptly brainwashed them.

Count me in as one of those who grew up with this story and specifically remembers the ghoulish covers of both Time and Newsweek that week (covers that would probably never be published today in our sensitive world).

1978 was a fucked up year for a young kid just starting to watch the news. Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, the PSA crash in San Diego and Jonestown all happened within about eight months of each other.

I can imagine with Bundy. Seeing how you did live in Florida at the time.

I was in high school in 1978 and lived about 15 minutes from John Wayne Gacy's house. Being that close to a tragedy does screw with your perceptions of what is safe and what isn't.

Jim Jones used the church to commit acts that are so unspeakable and yet so necessary for us to remember. A warning to all of us that we all need to watch out for ourselves and for those we care about.

May God have mercy on those 900 souls....

if I remember right 79 and 80 were pretty dark years of TV News also. I think those years help form my Cavalier attitude toward death.

I'll admit to wandering around various right leaning blogs from time to time and happened upon this article at the Neo-Neocon, almost right off the bat we get this gold nugget with obvious overtures to a certain event that happened two weeks ago...

Full text here: Jonestown Reflections: 30 Years Later The article itself is decent, though relies to much on a "blame the victim" mentality, but the comments below are priceless.

You know for some reason I alway remember Jonestown every time I been to a church that use cool aid for communion. I can never understand why they do it as Cool Aid and wine have nothing in common. I think it mostly a baptist thing( alcohol is the devil's brew).

Well, I'm not into my religion but I know with small children you gave out grape juice rather than Maneshevitz.

It was actually Wyler's Flavor-ade that was used. I remember the good folks at Kool-Aid pointing that out while in damage control mode.

But why? It just a sip, and it not like it going to intoxicate anyone, even a small child. You are talking about the same groups who think Homos need to die because Moses said so. It all just apart of these Groups insane hypocrisy. Jesus said that the law was the old wine skin. Paul said that the law was dead, ad all is lawful, but they totally ignore those verses. Except when they pertain to food laws, which the ancient Hebrews saw as the same as the sex laws. These are also the same groups who would have the world think that Paul hated women, when in fact he was the first Egalitarian. They go out of their sick little way to twist everything in the bible around to their way of think, instead of just following what is says as it is said.

Hey, I'm not in my religion. I never was Bar Mitzvahed.

I doubt that would have helped your case. Sales of shitty instant drink must have plummeted.

Ed Hocken: Manchild.

Perhaps. But I admit I just don't fit all of the sterotypes of a JAP: A Jewish American Prince. For one, my hair is not curly nor do I have Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder sized hands.

Diet Coke addiction however. Exists.

I was 5 when this happened and don't remember it at all. I do remember the mini series of course.

I was listening to the audiotapes last year. I still don't understand how they fell for it, specially with their kids, but as some of you have pointed out he applied years of brainwashing on these people.

You've been to a Palin rally and I've been to a Scientology Church orientation. I think we both have a better idea than we may want to admit.

Jim Jones' grandson plays basketball at San Diego. Really good player (beat my Kentucky team in Rupp earlier in the season before going on to upset Gonzaga in the WCC tourney and then UConn in the NCAA) who's dealt with the legacy of the tragedy. Really great piece wrote about Rob Jones and his father after San Diego won the WCC's auto bid to the tourney:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23696151/