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Master & Commander (2003)

post #1 of 79
Thread Starter 
It seems like we've been talking about this movie a lot recently, especially in regards to Star Trek or how The Dark Knight is better than it. (The latter is so, so wrong.) Based on this and my fond memories of it from when it played on cable endlessly a few years back, I decided to check it out again.

Boy, does it hold up. I'd argue that even more than Gladiator, this is probably Crowe's most assured "matinée idol" performance. Even though he's not as heavy as Aubrey is in the books, I think he's a perfect fit and it's really disappointing that more in the series weren't made. Crowe makes even Aubrey's flaws sort of likable, he's a stubborn son of a bitch who knows he's outmatched, but he refuses to let go. While we got a sense of Maximus' leadership in Gladiator, here, we actually see Crowe as a leader of men, both in his private moments ("you should read the book") and in the bigger ones ("this ship is England. This ship is home.").

And the same could be said for Bettany and his chemistry with Crowe. Even though Aubrey and Maturin fight, there's still a deep sense of respect and friendship that the two men share. I really like how Bettany is able to convey that Maturin is clearly out of place on the ship -- his presence at the dinners is awkward and it's to the actor's/director's credit that the subtext never becomes text.

That friendship is why the final lines of the movie are so lovely, and why the ending is so satisfying. (Although, again, disappointing by the lack of a sequel.)

I think what makes this movie great -- one reason, anyway -- is that the plot is basically two ships chasing after one another for two hours. There's a fight at the beginning, and a fight at the end, and both battles are fantastic (when the Acheron's mainmast topples, that's an exhilarating moment). But the meat of the movie is largely about men at sea, aboard a ship for months on end, and it really lends the film an authenticity that I think most period pieces lack. I love that Weir takes its time, and shows the toll that both weather and close quarters has on the men on the ship, often to deadly results. And I like how the cast is stacked deep with men that have recognizable faces and traits, even if it's hard to keep track of the names and the ranks. It's a very immersive film, one that doesn't stop to play catch up with the audience.

Plus, it's a gorgeous looking movie. I said this in the eye candy thread, but there are some shots from under deck that look like they were painted. I want to frame them and hang 'em on my wall.
post #2 of 79
I love this movie. It sickens me that it didn't do well enough in the box office to warrant a sequel (or a franchise).
post #3 of 79
You hit it on the head with this one. I can't add anything that you have not already said about this film. A classic, and will remain one for a long time.
post #4 of 79
For the record no way is The Dark Knight is better then Master & Commander. The TDK may be better then Gladiator though, but is not as good MC.
post #5 of 79
Thread Starter 
One of my favorite scenes in the movie is the funeral after the "cursed" midshipman kills himself. I love how Crowe talks about how the ship failed the guy by not treating him better, and even though he doesn't say it, he's asking for forgiveness because he knows he, as the captain, failed the dude by not treating him better. Even if he can't understand a man like that.
post #6 of 79
The one scene that did me in was after the final battle. Midshipman Blakeney is sewing his friend into the canvas, then asks the deckhand for help. Very moving.
post #7 of 79
Kudos must be paid to Max Pirkis, the child actor who played Blakeney. He's great in the whole movie, but his amputation scene is particularly wrenching because of his acting ability.
post #8 of 79
Let's not forget...


The lesser of two weevils...

EDIT: Also...

"To wives and sweethearts... may they never meet!"
post #9 of 79
I love this movie. I've been meaning to start a thread about verisimilitude in movies, and this is going to be my #1 example.
post #10 of 79
I love the shit out of this film. I came in expecting Gladiator on sea, but it's so much better. The Crowe/Bettany chemistry is awesome.
post #11 of 79
It's a part that everyone remembers sure, but the tension leading up to Aubrey's ship springing their trap on the French is just so damn awesome. Once "Let fly!" happens, it's as exhilarating a moment of cinema as there is in movies with three times the action.

Also, the French captain pulling a Keyser Soze at the end is still brilliant.
post #12 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
Kudos must be paid to Max Pirkis, the child actor who played Blakeney. He's great in the whole movie, but his amputation scene is particularly wrenching because of his acting ability.
Both the kid actors in the movie are pretty great.

I don't want this to turn into a rehash of great moments from the movie, but I love the scene at the end with Brian D'Arcy and Crowe when he gives him his orders and his new Captainship -- because that's how it goes down. You put in your time, you show your mettle, and you're rewarded for your efforts. Then it's time to go to work. One of the best "jump scares/shockers" in the movie is when they invade the Acheron, and it looks like nobody's there, and then BOOM -- headshot. Still makes me jump every time I see it.

I didn't really talk about the comparisons to Trek in my initial post, but I think the movie does have a similar spirit of adventure and exploration as the best of the series and the movies, and that Crowe can be somewhat Kirk-esque. I don't want to turn this into a Trek thread, but I do think that series is best when it's less Wagon Train to the Stars and more like this. And maybe that relates to Nicholas Meyer directing the best and the second best Trek movie, because, like Weir, he comes from a British/Commonwealth background and they have a longer history and understanding of naval warfare/exploration than American's do. That's a bullshit theory, though.
post #13 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I think what makes this movie great -- one reason, anyway -- is that the plot is basically two ships chasing after one another for two hours. There's a fight at the beginning, and a fight at the end, and both battles are fantastic (when the Acheron's mainmast topples, that's an exhilarating moment). But the meat of the movie is largely about men at sea, aboard a ship for months on end, and it really lends the film an authenticity that I think most period pieces lack. I love that Weir takes its time, and shows the toll that both weather and close quarters has on the men on the ship, often to deadly results. And I like how the cast is stacked deep with men that have recognizable faces and traits, even if it's hard to keep track of the names and the ranks. It's a very immersive film, one that doesn't stop to play catch up with the audience.
The Hundred Days documentary on the Collector's Edition is so, so great because it addresses almost all of the things you list here and how much work and effort went into creating such an incredible sense of place, time, camaraderie and authenticity. One of my favorite making ofs of one of my favorite films of the last few years.
post #14 of 79
No, not so much bullshit. You got it right. Nick Meyer openly stated that he was going for the whole "Horatio Hornblower In Space" theme that Roddenberry said he was going for with TOS.
post #15 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
Kudos must be paid to Max Pirkis, the child actor who played Blakeney. He's great in the whole movie, but his amputation scene is particularly wrenching because of his acting ability.
he also great in Rome, and he holds his own with a lot of great actors.
post #16 of 79
That does it: I'm rewatching this movie this weekend.

This is Peter Weir, so it's automatically great (honestly, does this man have one of the most bulletproof bodies of work in film history?). But everyone goes above and beyond here. Crowe doesn't just hit all the right notes - he plays a fuckin' symphony as Aubrey, heroic and charming but in a recognisably human way. And Bettany is his match as the wise Maturin - he's gone slightly off the boil in recent years but this performance proves that his distinctive charisma works just as effectively in more understated roles.

Two scenes that have always stuck with me: the 'cursed' young seaman, cannonballs in hand, jumping overboard to his death - I felt so sorry for that kid, but the movie's clear-eyed, straightforward approach never played it maudlin or over-the-top tragic, simply as part of the way things worked at sea...for better or worse. And the crew cutting loose the sailor tangled in the ropes and leaving him to an icy death in the middle of the ocean - again, Weir makes it hit home without gross manipulation or sentimentality.

Sometimes when I hate 20th Century Fox and everything I stands for, I remember it had a hand in this. And I decide to give it one more shot to get its act together and remember what it's capable of.
post #17 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lima Oscar Lima View Post
Let's not forget...


The lesser of two weevils...
Crowe can throw a million phones at a million concierges, and I'll still have his back until the end of time because of this moment. As someone who enjoys a shitty pun every once in a while, I recognised the sheer joy that accompanies saying something so witty/dopey.

More Crowe/Bettany, if you please!
post #18 of 79
I'm a Navy guy, grew up a Navy brat, went to a Navy school, did a few years at sea, and then realized what the hell am I doing!

But this movie is everything great about the sea, the Navy, and filmmaking.

I'd also go as far as to say it's better than the Best Picture winner from 2003, a film I also greatly liked.

This film has craftsmanship in its very bones, and transports like only the very best of cinema can. The word I use to describe it to friends is impeccable.

It's also why I wanted Peter Weir to get The Hobbit.

It's a fantastic Blu Ray as well.
post #19 of 79
This is easily among my favourite films of the last decade. Quite possibly ever.
It has Crowe's best performance and Bettany showing why he really needs more leading roles. Maturin is a perfect performance, capturing the character from the books and rounding him out effortlessly on the screen.
It has sequences involving ships at sea that are so brilliantly executed they intergrate seamlessly into the story instead of simply feeling like clever effects work.
Most of it, it has an air of sheer authenticity I've never seen matched in another historical drama. The melodramatic lens Hollywood holds over such things is completely absent, and it instead sustains a feel for the everyday details of the period that's almost impossible to fault.
Despite the Oscars it got, the film's always seemed monstrously overlooked to me. Critics rarely cite it.
post #20 of 79
About as perfect a film as you'll ever see and certainly one of the very best sounding films i've ever witnessed in a theatre.

I love every frame of this film and happily rank it among my favourites. Anyone who throws around a doubt about Crowe as a movie star or an actor need only watch Gladiator, American Gangster and this. He is pure presence in this film, the part he was made for - a leader of men, young and old.

Can't say enough good things about this film, but having just acquired my first Blu Ray player, this could be the first BD I buy myself this weekend. Great to look at, great to hear, a great film, unquestionably.
post #21 of 79
Part of the reason I love this movie is because it was my first introduction to Patrick O'Brian, who is either tied with or narrowly edges out Len Deighton as my favourite novelist, and part of it is because I remember watching it with my father (it's a great one for that, it ought to be a tradition), but all those factors aside I don't think I'd be any less impressed.

It really is an amazing piece of adaptation, as well as a great movie in its own right, capturing the odd pacing and humour of O'Brian's novels that would ordinarily be the first things to go. The way that the movie is about the men and their world more than anything, more interested in the rigging and little rituals than melodrama, is so well done that a part of me thinks they really couldn't have done sequels even if it had made enough money - I just don't know if you could get that right repeatably. That said, I was ready and willing to keep watching them if they kept making them, because I don't think there will ever be a better cast and crew to do the stories justice.
post #22 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by sackley View Post
Can't say enough good things about this film, but having just acquired my first Blu Ray player, this could be the first BD I buy myself this weekend. Great to look at, great to hear, a great film, unquestionably.
Do yourself a favor: Buy the standard DVD 3-Disc instead. The audio/video quality oddly enough doesn't get that big of a bump, and as has been mentioned, the documentaries are worth the price of that set by themselves.
post #23 of 79
This is a great movie. Which i was totally floored by when i saw it. I got so pissed at the audience for not liking it or getting bored. I found it fascinating.

So much level of detail. Crowe and Bettany are perfect. Their chemistry is fantastic.
post #24 of 79
I've always wondered if this film might've done better if it was released on the heels of Gladiator as opposed to Pirates of the Caribbean.
post #25 of 79
It has one of the most satisfying movie endings ever for my money. There's just something infectious about Crowe and Bettany playing their music at the end. It's no suprise Howard used the two in 'A Beautful Mind' a little while later because they both work so well together. All too often Chemistry is only applied to on screen male/female couplings but people forget it can be easily applied here to. You can maybe get another actor to play Bettany's role, but would it work as well with Crowe? I highly doubt it.

Anyone know what song that is at the end by the way?
post #26 of 79
Quote:
It's no suprise Howard used the two in 'A Beautful Mind' a little while later because they both work so well together.
Actually, M&C was released 2 years after "A Beautiful Mind."
post #27 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody Wanker View Post
Actually, M&C was released 2 years after "A Beautiful Mind."
Well colour me suprised. I'd always assumed it was the other way around.
post #28 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrVenkman View Post
Anyone know what song that is at the end by the way?
It's the third or fourth movement from "La Musica Notturna" by Boccherini.


....what? You're not a classical music geek too?
post #29 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrVenkman View Post
You can maybe get another actor to play Bettany's role, but would it work as well with Crowe? I highly doubt it.
It's my understanding that Ralph Fiennes was originally signed as Maturin but then pulled out, with Bettany stepping in at the last minute.
post #30 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy five-tone View Post
It's my understanding that Ralph Fiennes was originally signed as Maturin but then pulled out, with Bettany stepping in at the last minute.
Fiennes would've been good, no doubt about it. But I can't see him working with Crowe the same way that Bettany did. And that chemistry between the two is a pretty big reason as to why the film works.
post #31 of 79
To be completely fair, if the film does have a flaw, it's Billy Boyd. He seems rather out of place.
post #32 of 79
Yeah, those docs are the reason why I haven't gotten the Blu.
post #33 of 79
I've ownd this film on DVD for a few years now and never watched it until last night. Honestly, I had forgotten that I owned it or else I'd have watched it sooner.

To say the least, it's a very good movie. It just feels so amazingly authentic (despite actually changing the enemies on the other ship from what they are in the book). Crow and Bettany are fantastic (as is the child actor...I don't know his name). I remember talking to a few people years back who thought the film was boring. Then again, it seems that most moviegoers I know nowadays have a hard time sitting through anything, so I wouldn't put too much stock into those claims if you're on the fence with this one. Check it out.
post #34 of 79
Nothing much to add except this film is fantastic. I don't know if I've seen it since it came out in theaters, I might actually get this for my dad for Christmas--he's read every O'Brian book and absolutely adored the film. Probably the only time he has been 100% satisfied at an adaptation of one of his most beloved book series.
And yeah, Peter Weir is pretty fucking amazing. Even some of his duds like Mosquito Coast are better than some respected director's best films (okay, not Green Card, but work with me here).
post #35 of 79
Pump the brakes, kid. GREEN CARD is fuckin' great.
post #36 of 79
Yeah, I don't know if I can take a mere passing snipe at Green Card like that. It's a great little film, with a fantastic performance by Depardieu.
post #37 of 79
Is it? I probably should not have disparaged Green Card in the first place, as I only remember seeing it on cable years ago without even knowing it was even a Weir film til much later. If a rewatching is recommended I will Netflix it with the quickness.
post #38 of 79
I must've seen The Mosquito Coast a half a dozen times as a kid. I never knew that was Peter. Weird.

Anyways, this film is great. There's something rigorously old school about it. The zooms (!) and the reliance on classical canon for the score. It has the feel of something carved out of the same wood as the ship.... oh, and the dude with the coin in his skull rules.
post #39 of 79
I'll add my love for this movie.

M&C is also a terrific film from the standpoint of its exploration of leadership: what makes a great leader tick and what makes a poor leader fail. There's more happening in this movie than just a ripping yarn; it also gives those of us who lead for a living a great deal to chew on.
post #40 of 79
What M&C does to equalize age groups, BSG does with gender to a large degree. They could make 10 POTC films and they wouldn't contain the same sense of adventure that this 1 film has going for it.

I was actually thinking about picking up the collected O'Brian/Aubrey novels after watching this, but apparently the edit is terrible. Existence of used books stores: forever justified.
post #41 of 79
After having a fantastic experience with this movie in the theater, I put off seeing it again once it came out on DVD. I was afraid that it wouldn't stand up, and my love of it would be tarnished. Once I finally got around to seeing it again, needless to say, I found my fears groundless. Having a big Dolby digital surround system helps, but there's a lot more going on here than the spectacular battle sequences (which, incidentally, I was shocked that Weir could put together...who knew the guy could do action?).

It's a terrible cliche, and I feel old just saying it, but nobody makes movies like this anymore. And this one doing as poorly as it did means that they'll continue not making them. Another case in which I feel I've been robbed by the general audience. The series should have continued.

I did read the first book after this, by the way. It's a bit tougher to get through than the movie. It's absolutely thick with period naval jargon, and does precious little hand-holding in bringing you up to speed on what any of it means. It's great stuff all the same. I may have to pick up more.
post #42 of 79
Personally, I'm not a fan of the Jack Aubrey novels. They just seem too much like a lift of Horatio Hornblower.

Thus, I was not expecting to enjoy this film so much. But the filmmakers improved on the source material, imo.
post #43 of 79
I think there's a law against saying that the movie is better than the book. Even when it's true. Like with Neil Jordan's adaptation of Interview With the Vampire.

Excuse me, there's a group of pasty-faced people in black outside who'd like to have a word with me next to the tree.
post #44 of 79
Came across this piece of information on IMDB about a test screening of Weir's The Way Back that is taking place tomorrow . Here's The screening Exchange website. Just thought i'd put a heads up for those that are in the area.
post #45 of 79
I am thoroughly shamed and embarassed to admit that the first time I watched this on dvd a few years ago, I was too stoned to appreciate what I was watching and barely remembered a thing from it. Now that I've left that life basically behind and the film gets name-dropped in such a positive capacity so regularly around here, I picked up the definitave edition dvd on special from my local store and finally watched this properly last night.

God damn, what an utterly perfect little film this is. It is simply incredibly solid in every aspect; performance, script, direction, everything. It's one of the most wonderfully immersive film experiences I've had in a long while, feeling utterly authentic and completely gripping from start to finish.

There's not a lot I can add to this thread that hasn't already been stated, but as a true lover of fine acting chemistry, I have to single out just how incredible Crowe and Bettany are as they bounce off each other. Aubrey and Maturins relationship is the lynchpin around which this wonderful world Weir has crafted spins and Crowe and Bettany really feel like two very different men who have a deep and abiding respect and affection for each other. Chemistry that good is a joy to watch.

I think 'immersive' and 'authentic' are the two words I keep coming back to with this film tho. During certain moments I actually felt sea sick, even the smaller characters were so vivid that moments like the removal of the young boys arm had me hiding behind my hands or the young officer throwing himself overboard left me with feelings of real melancholy.

On top of everything else, not only is it a an absolute ripping yarn, but as Frank mentioned earlier in this thread there are some very deep and thought-provoking questions asked about the nature of leadership and about what kind of character it takes to lead a confined and under-pressure group of people that certainly had me asking if I was in a similair position, could I gain a group of mens respect or would my need to be liked have me throwing myself overboard while holding a cannon ball?

All in all, the old maxim that's been repeated in here already that 'they just don't make 'em like this anymore' really does hold true. I wish my old man had been alive to see this one as he would have had an absolute blast with it. It truely is up with Gallipoli as Weirs best.

I really want to give the O'Brian novels a try now too, I may have to track down the first one because I have really fallen for Aubrey and Maturin as characters and want to follow their other adventures.

But yeah, as I said in my facebook status update yesterday: I wish there were more films that were made in the last decade or that will be made in the next decade as god-damned good as this one. It is everything that I love about the movies.
post #46 of 79
I saw this film on bluray the other night, hadn't seen it since it was in theaters.

One of the greatest adventure movies ever made. This is a film so visually powerful and dynamic that you could turn the sound off and it would still be a great experience (of course you'd then be missing great dialogue, a great score, and top notch ambient sound work).

Also it manages to subtextually capture a sense of spirituality about life at sea without ever directly addressing it in dialogue. (Something almost monastic about life on ship; they've isolated themselves from society and women, navigating a surface that seems to stretch on for eternity, representing an ideal bigger than themselves, searching for something they've never seen, living a life of repeated ritual, and operating on hope, constantly subject to the whims of forces outside of their control.)

Goes without saying that the effects are spectacular. Haven't seen a lot of Weir's films, but it looks like he hadn't done a big-budget effects-laden movie before this, which makes it all the more amazing.

It reminds me of a Sergio Leone film in a way, in that even supporting characters who get almost no lines are nonetheless highly memorable.

Such a shame we won't be getting another of these, but perhaps that's greedy. We're really lucky to have gotten one, and it doesn't demand a sequel, except in the way that great films demand more great films.

Glad Weir's finally making a new film, anyway. Like Alfonso Cuaron, very overdue.
post #47 of 79
Russell Crowe is pursuing a sequel to 'Master and Commander' and wants your help: http://social.entertainment.msn.com/...f-a3a82c4f13f1
post #48 of 79
Wish him the best of luck. But it ain't happening.
post #49 of 79
After what he did to Robin Hood, I'm not sure I want to see him work his magic on this property again.
post #50 of 79
I blame Ridley Scott on 'Robin Hood', not Russell Crowe.
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