PUNISHER: WAR ZONE Post Release - Page 4

The problem with Hutchinson was having to share almost all his scenes with West. He just couldn't quite hang. But that scene with the mirrors in the hotel is indeed a good one for both of them, though the funniest part for me was just seeing Pittsy's arm grab his son and pull him into the elevator.

Best non-kill moment from Stevenson came at the end when he hears that slight sound of "Quiet, fool" coming from the room with all the bangers. The way he immediately goes on the hunt right there was flawless.

That was the scene I found touching in a twisted way. Most other times, I'd agree. The dude was Salacioius Crumb to Jigsaw the Hutt. Cackling like a cartoon sidekick the whole way through.

The movie certainly sets him up to be a more significant threat than he ended up being.

With the jaw click! Yea! I want to make sure to mention that I really appreciate (without irony) the way Alexander paced some of her action sequences. They go balls out for a while and then give you a dead silent moment like that before getting going again. Nice variety of ups and downs so you can appreciate the insanity when it really comes.

People are spotlighting Julie Benz as the albatross of the film, but I don't think that's fair, after all, she doesn't really do anything but provide a semi-relatable character to ground the film a little bit*. Fucking Jerkwater Lecter is the real annoyance here. If you ask me, Hutchinson should have chosen chronic masturbation as his affectation. I'm dead serious. It'd been fucking hilarious to see him randomly play pocket pool just to keep his hands busy (it been doubly good if you saw everyone try desperately not to acknowledge it, just stare anywhere but at him), then his character wouldn't have been a total loss.



*Though I really did hate how the film uses her to absolve Frank Castle at the end. I don't care about it being in poor taste, it was just dumb and it rang false.

The brother, stupid as he was, still seemed like he was part of the movie. He was bad, but just as dumb as what was around him. Very much in keeping with the whole thing.

Benz looked like she thought she was in a real movie. And where the other accents were so boldly bad, hers was just bad.

I think what we really needed for Loony Bin Jim was a Out For Justice Forsythe-esque death scene instead of the lame Mexican stand-off. The Jigsaw death was pretty good but could have benefitted from a super extended one sided Seagal style beatdown as well.

What we really really really need is to go back in time and make this same Punisher film in 1989 with Steven Seagal as Frank Castle as opposed to the Lundgren Punisher... which I love but would gladly do without.

Another Jim bit I did like was pushing the cop into the sword.

I didn't mind Jim just getting shot in the head because as far as ridiculous action movie standoffs go, at least this one ended with everything not quite going perfectly for the hero.

That's the thing though, she's not good, but I get why she's there. If there are "breath catching" scenes in the film, she's a breath catching character, an occasional repose from all of the fireworks. She has to be "real" to serve her purpose. In the end she's not anymore inappropriate than Colin Salmon. It's kind of hard to defend such a nothing role and a nothing character, but there it is.

Over the end credits, as that song played, I actually thought, "Wow, but that's a shitty Rob Zombie impersonation". Not that I was ever really a fan musically, but man - that guy's really boiled it down to a schtick.

And yes - the best thing about the movie is West's Mondo Retardo performance. But like much of what is amusing about the film - it seems like an afterthought. It's as if the dailies were coming back...and Alexander felt like the whole affair was pretty bland - and so subsequently, she added garish color and told Dominic West to swing away.

And I think Dash Mihok was flat-out fucking atrocious in this. I've always found him likeable in other things - but here...he was all...Flowers for Algernon. As scripted (and his dialogue and arc are exactly as they are in the script), he comes off as sorta' Columbo - you can tell that his whole "I'm not quite getting this" thing is a ruse meant primarily to disarm - but Mihok chooses (or Alexander told him) to play brain-damaged instead.

And I remember thinking the parkour thing in the screenplay was so "been there, done that" - as it originally ended with the douchebags finding Frank on a rooftop, and some fisticuffs and some dead guys. Blah...

And again - it's like...in the middle of shooting...either Lexi...or the producers...or a writer went, "How about this instead?"

Which leads to these splattery-comical bursts of joy punctuating an otherwise drab and by the numbers exercise.

I thought this film was shot and framed well, it looked good.

But I found this film to be pretty close to terrible. Some parts of the film had me pretty much annoyed while I did find some parts of it well paced and fun. Just a jumble of a movie for me.

I thought it was a fun bad movie when it wasn't bogged down by the dead undercover agent stuff. I could have done without Benz, her daughter, Budiansky and especially the PUNISHER QUITS bullshit. After the strong opening, I was annoyed when Frank started moping around.

As expected, West's 'evil, retarded I-talian guy' performance was funny. Here's a man who searches for his 2 million dollars by going through a bunch tiny dresser drawers. I also enjoyed his strutting. His funniest strut can be seen when he approaches two hobos that are near a garbage can fire during the RECRUITMENT DRIVE montage.

And I thought the guy who played Soap nailed the character. I just wish he could have been humiliated more.

Soap was practically brain-damaged in the comics. The guy fucks his own mother at one point.

Well... this will certainly be the last theatrical Punisher film. Ouch... it might not even make 5 million for the weeked.

Idea for a sequel that will never happen? Adapt Brian Michael Bendis/Ed Brubaker's storyline when Matt Murdock is outed as Daredevil (first by an FBI Agent, then the Kingpin) and arrested, and Frank gets himself arrested to help Matt escape.

There's been a few Punisher-gets-arrested storylines, including "Final Days" from the early 90s which had Frank escaping and getting plastic surgery to become a black man (wtf?). There's ample opportunity for Rorschach "I'm not locked up in here with you, you're locked in here with me" moments.

I'm only half joking, because neither franchises are going anywhere. Bring back Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin and have Frank beat his ass at the end.

Which brings me to the fact that Stevenson looks just like John Romita Jr's depiction of Frank from the early 90s Warzone comics.

I wish somehow, they would do the 'Slavers' storyline.

With the exception of Barracuda and Finn Cooley they threw in basically every serious heavy (mostly in name only) from Ennis' MAX run, including "Slavers" primary antagonist, Tiberiu. I was actually rather surprised to see him.

There is no reason someone couldn't just take the guts of the Slavers arc or any of the MAX arcs really and use them as inspiration for a generic action film. Loose the skull and change the character's name to Powers McMasterson and bam you've got yourself a Slavers movie.

I would not have even considered seeing this if it weren't for the Chud reviews, I'm glad I did tho. The opening was just fucking great, actually pretty much everything until he shot the FBI agent. I could have down without that entire storyline, it just brought the movie to a screeching halt. In a movie this absurd and over the top, I don't need to see Frank Castle mope around in self doubt/pity. I want to see people get their heads punched in. So that irked me a little, but the 3rd act really was a big improvement and I ended up really digging it. I could see myself buying this.

I can't decide what my favorite scene was, but the scene where Jigsaw goes to recruit the black gang and they all point their guns gangster-style just tickled the fuck out of me. Because they're black, you know, and black people point their guns like *THIS!* and white people point their guns like *THIS!*

I don't see Slavers type movie working within the world they have set up, unless someone could figure out how to make human trafficking and dead babies funny.

The movie was fairly retarded, it's kinda like a big budget Troma movie, only without the intentional humor. But it's definitely something to watch while getting shitfaced. Whereas Rambo I'd drink Wild Turkey, this one is Ezra Brooks.

Just saw it and it lived up to the hype. Still deciding which I liked more: parkour-meets-RPG or KD Lang-meets-ultra-fist.

Okay, I've decided: rocket-launcher death.

I imagine that this is just about as good as a Punisher movie can get.

See, I was actually expecting more on the violence front.

I can only imagine what the UNRATED BRAINS IN YOUR LAP EDITION will have on it.

Probably more Punisher/Widow Benz footage. I think all of the violence made it into the movie.

Or just a second or two added to a some head shots.

Alexander claims the stuff on the cutting room floor is more of the little girl and more Soap and that's it. Curious about more Soap, as I thought Mihok was great, but this movie had more of the little girl than was tolerable anyway, so I'm glad it didn't make it in.

Joined by RAMBO and Liam Neeson in the MAN ON FIRE - esque TAKEN, we've had 3 great "angry guy fucking people up" movies this year, which is a very good thing. These flicks follow my #1 rule of movies: know what you're trying to do, and do it well. If you're making a comedy, don't try to make it heartwarming or romantic, MAKE IT FUNNY. If you're making an action movie, don't try to make it insightful or deep, just MESS PEOPLE UP.

The biggest tragedy in the film flopping so badly isn't that there won't be a sequel (I could care less about the character), it's the damage it'll do to guys like Dominic West and especially Ray Stevenson. They deserve to be stars.

Poor McNulty.

I don't know it's nitpickicking - I think it's legit criticism of a bad movie. If the awesome and ludicrous action and the insane-o nature of West's performance permeated any other portion of the film - then I'd see it as the absurdist masterpiece people are saying it is. Instead, what you've got is a few brilliant/ludicrous/wild/grand guignol "Miike" moments that stick out amidst the bland/shittiness of the rest of the film.

As for the "Soap" character - Soap didn't read retarded to me. In the draft I was given, people regard him as an ineffective asshole wasting his efforts chasing a guy who won't - and shouldn't - be caught. He seemed really straight-laced and square - like Elliot Ness in The Untouchables - and the reveal that he's helping the Punisher comes as an "Ah-HA!" moment. He had a rep for ineptitude, but he wasn't a shambolic, mumbling, stuttering 'tard.

I can only assume that - if the above-mentioned literal "motherfucker" thing can be an indicator - that Soap is a product of Garth Ennis, and after reading some of his first (lauded) work on The Punisher, I decided that it wasn't for me. I've described his writing on those books as "Sub-Lobo" before - it lacks any kind of depth or integrity of character or rudimetary logic. To me, you can go Ennis with this character...or you can go Chuck Dixon. You can make him the Italian-American Jason Voorhees killing retarded cartoon characters...or you can do "Batman with Bullets". The film tries for both - and while it manages to get the goofy violence right (the parkour/rocket launcher thing is awesome) - everything else is soulless and flat. I'm supposed to feel all "ohhhh shit" when the Fed gets killed...I'm supposed to care about Frank on Julie Benz's steps...knowing he deserves to die...and the little kid all fuzzy about Frank...that's supposed to be touching.

If the Lexi that shot the Punisher landing on that parkour douchbag's face showed up on the day the melodrama was filmed - she could have done it with some sneering, comical contempt. But these things are played straight here...and oddly enough, poorly.

I think back to something like Crank - where Chev places the phone call to his girl and gets her machine as he free-falls...and how oddly touching that is...I'm reminded of the odd warmth and caring Michael Rooker exudes as the monstrous Grant Grant near the end of Slither. Right off the top of my head, I can think of two examples of films that did a better job of balancing black comedy, melodrama, and overwrought pathos.

And okay - I get that Alexander's stay behind the Lion's gate was frought with...bad things. I personally think she's a talented filmmaker. I was one of the people who thought it was shitty and sexist when fannerds started in with "Dude - a chick can't direct The Punisher ". I think Green Street Hooligans is fantastic, and have actually made people sit down and watch it (after having to buy it twice because someone I let borrow it never gave it back). I am by no means shitting on her - I just think that...when the film works - it works. But it works for maybe six to eight minutes of its 80-feels-like-130 minute runtime...and that's not enough success to tip the scales for me. I pride myself on being someone who can find things to like in any movie - I love movies so much that I have a rudimentary respect for anyone who can get them made. I can tick off a list of things I thought were very cool in this film (for example - anytime Frank just casually walked down the street "cocked, locked and ready to rock" was fucking hilarious...I just worry that it was unitentional)...but that doesn't make the film good.

Dev - you asked above if I thought anyone was actually going to get the script right. You've said many times that you think this character is achingly simplistic and lame. By that rationale, anyone with a fundamental knowledge of the three act structure could look at the source material, and - unencumbered by things like "depth" and "compelling characters" - cobble together a melodramatic Death Wish-style revenger plot that manages to engage an audience when there's a lack of gunfire. You've said The Punisher isn't rocket science. By that rationale...yeah - I'd think it be possible that someone might bang out a decent yarn for one of this character's three trips to the screen so far.

What War Zone manages to prove is that Alexander has a future far away from panic-prone, twitchy pseudo mini-major studios with identity crisis. She'll land on her feet. The Punisher won't.

Friggin' awesome movie, and definitely on par with Dolph's Punisher. I have to say what has already been said that Dominic West did a great job as Jigsaw. He had a great chemistry with Doug Hutchison. West's accent was damn great/hilarious.

Is it the baby death and sex slavery what's funny about Slavers? I always thought it was the catharsis of seeing awful people mutilated in creative and ironic ways that made the majority of the Ennis' MAX run funny. I mean in a lot of ways I'm a nihilistic sociopath but I laugh at that shit because I really enjoy seeing evil fuckers who exist in the world I live in getting hate fucked to death by a big mother fucker with a lot of guns. Its a vicarious joy I feel with Punisher MAX. War Zone feels to me like the Marvel Knights Steve Dillion version of the Punisher name checking characters from the MAX version as fan service rather than an actual adaptation of Punisher MAX. Those books don't even take place in the same universe. The MK version is slapstick parody but I feel like MAX is black comedy mixed with film noir. Its like a comic book version of Richard Stark novels.

I really think film makers who want to make violent action films could just straight rip off the majority of Ennis' MAX work and it would translate fine.

The Slavers isn't supposed to be funny.

I didn't think so. I mean I laughed when Frank kept throwing the daughter against the skyscraper window until the frame gave out and she fell to her death but I was pretty sure that's just because I'm a horrible person.

Thing is though, they went with the MK slapstick with the MAX violence. And a story like the Slavers, doesn't seem like it would really work in the world that has been established.

Mother Russia or Barracuda would.

Barracuda definitely would, Kitchen Irish would work really well, it ends with all the bad guys getting blown up by a bomb with the world cunt written on it. Though they already killed off one of the main baddies from that and the other one is another guy with a fucked up face. Maybe even Up Is Down and Black Is White, where Castle is pretty much in full on Jason Voorhees mode.

Hence Slavers is the perfect story to do as a stand alone movie swaping Frank Castle out for a generic tough guy. Somebody should send Stallone a copy of the Slavers TPB and force him to use it as the basic template for the next Rambo movie.

Have you seen the early numbers, only 1.6m for Friday? That hurts. I guess we all knew this wasn't to be a big hit, but that's an unexpected low. Jane's Punisher did more then three times as much. It's a weak weekend overall though, #1 only did a bit over 5m.

At least Lionsgate will make back about three times what they spent to advertise the film.

I still enjoyed the Thomas Jane for more then this film, but hell, it's a Marvel film so it at least gets one viewing!

Fun enough, but I left wishing that the film was better at actually being funny when it worked so hard at not taking itself seriously.

When it got down to the business of being unabashed, pulpy violent fun, it was a great time. Loved the moments when the movie took a break from being presented in SawColor to look like an Argento fan film. But the ratio of neon church awesomeness to Frank moping around Freddy Krueger's boiler room and talking about quitting was way off balance.

I don't know anything about the comic character, but Soap was fucking awful. At first I thought it was that his performance didn't fit in with anyone else's, but really, no one's performance in the film matched anyone else's. The entire film feels as if there were no run-throughs with the actors.

Jane's prankin punisher movie is still the worst one.
final rankings:

1.) War Zone
2.) Dolph Lundgren Presents: The Punisher
3.) The Punisher (2004)

RIP you strange, beautiful franchise

What, no TV series on Spike? At least a shadowy cameo in the Avengers?

It's only been in release for one weekend. There are still the possibilities that word of mouth will improve its business during this run and/or the film will find its audience on DVD. The last movie was kind of awful, the pre-release buzz on this film was horrible, and pretty much nobody in the States who doesn't have HBO has heard of the guys playing the title character and villain. It wouldn't surprise me if a ton of people are just waiting until this hits DVD to check it out.

What was the budget for Warzone?
When everything is added up (worldwide box office, dvd, bluray,etc) , I think it's still going to struggle to match Punisher 04's worldwide box office take of 54 million.

I could still see a DTV sequel being cranked out at some point, but I would hope both Stevenson and Alexander will be able to move on from this to bigger and better things and not have to resort to making a DTV flick.

I've lost faith in the movie-going public.

The movie looked like shit and that's why it bombed. The fact it turned out to be a hell of a lot of fun took everyone by surprise.