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Kingdom Of Heaven: The Directors Cut (2006)

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 




Just watched this for the second time and as a huge fan of Ridleys, this may have ascended to being one of my favorite of his films and one of my faves of all time. A true epic with the feel of the old school classic Hollywood sword and sandal masterpieces, even down to an intermission and musical overture playing before each half, I feel sorry that such a true classic of my beloved epic school of film-making went so unappreciated on it's butchered theatrical release. I said in my Ben Hur thread that 'they don't make them like this any more' - well, Ridley tried and got his arse handed to him for his troubles by Fox which is an utter crime.

So many things to love about this let me start with the performances. So many favorite actors in this I almost don't know where to begin, Alexander Siddig who always seems rock solid but seemingly goes unloved in all his performances, David Thewliss as a voice of conscience for our hero, Jeremy Irons as the grizzled Marshall, Brendan Gleesons near-mad villain, Ed Norton in an unrecognizable mask having his Hugo Weaving in V For Vendetta moment, the utterly divine Eva Green (I can't quite believe how neutered her character was in the theatrical considering how integral she is to the DC plot), Liam Neeson as yet another father figure, Gassan Massouds brilliant turn as Saladin, giving this most celebrated historical figure the required gravitas, Kevin McKidd in an all too brief role. The supporting cast is stellar from top to bottom. Of all the actors though I kind of feel sorry for Martin Csokas, in that I think this may be one of his best filmic performances I’ve seen him give and if this film had done better he would have received a much deserved career bump as a consequence, as it is I haven't seen him better than playing the slimy Lord Guy.

Much criticism has been leveled at Orlando Bloom and his supposed lackluster performance in this, but I honestly got the Ari Gold vibe watching him in this, that is, he's not the world’s greatest actor, but he is a great movie star. As a consequence I feel he carries the film pretty well. Some moments I felt may have gotten away from him - though considering the talent surrounding him it must have been a touch daunting - but I found myself quite moved but his final "None have claim, All have claim" speech at the walls of Jerusalem.

 

Ridleys direction is beyond brilliant. Pensive when required or utterly edge-of-the-seat gripping as well, the final forty five minute siege of Jerusalem is worth the price of admission alone. This is very much Ridley channeling Lean and Kubrick and giving his all as a consequence.

As far as the overall thesis of the movie goes, I remember feeling acutely uncomfortable when I heard that Scott was doing an epic story of the crusades considering both the politically sensitive time the film was being released into regarding western-Islamic relations and my, to be honest, lack of faith on Scotts ability to handle such subject matter delicately after the blunt trauma that was Black Hawk Down.

As it turned out, my fears and trepidation were so completely unfounded it wasn't funny. Here is a film that is not anti-Muslim or pro-Christian, but anti-fanatic and pro-humanist (or anti-religion and pro-holiness as it semantically positions itself). The films basic thesis, that there are good, caring men and women on both sides of the cultural and religious divide, and on all sides of a conflict are myopic, selfish and evil people who would see a black and white simplicity blanketed over our grey and complex world that are the antagonists in such inter-religious or cultural relations was perfectly realized.

From the outset when Balian is betrayed and undermined by a man who is not only his own brother, but a keeper of supposed religiosity as a priest as well, the tone is set for what is to come. As the film finally concludes with the incredible 45 minute siege of Jerusalem we are left feeling that not only are our true villains of the piece the uncompromising fanatical Guy de Lusignan and Reynald de Chatillon, but that Saladin was not only a great general but a humanist to rival Nortons King Baldwin as well. As a consequence the film becomes a plea for rationality in the face of those that have and always will hide behind scripture - regardless of which scripture that may be - to forward their own very human and very tribal agendas.

A reminder that humanism is not confined to one religion over another and that in the end religion is simply another flag to fly under while pushing the very worst our species has to offer, another tribal colour people stand behind tom excuse the worst of our impulses, this may be one of the most beautifully directed, historically appropriate films to be released that no one ever saw.

I have never seen the theatrical cut of this, knowing when it was released that it was not Scotts film and that his true cut would follow, but I do know what was cut out, to the point the film essentially loses all its meaning. That’s a tragedy in my opinion. This film as it was meant to be released deserved not only to stand alongside the great epics of the classic era, but was a timely and wonderful plea for peace in the face of the very worst of our tribal instincts.

If there is any justice, the true cut of this film will live on to become beloved. It is Ridleys masterwork and for me, second only to Blade Runner as his greatest film.
 

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ETA: Edited to update dead images

Edited by The Rain Dog - 6/4/11 at 8:02am
post #2 of 48
Well, you put it all much more eloquently than I am capable of this morning. It is truly shocking at how butchered the theatrical cut is. Anytime I come across someone that has brushed Kingdom of Heaven off due to the theatrical I insist that they come over and see the movie as it should have been.

As much spectacle as there is in the film (off the top of my head - the port before leaving for Jerusalem, the cross glinting in the sun as the Christian army marches, the siege that you provided a screen cap of), the performances are all magnificent. Every single character, regardless of how small the part, is perfectly cast. Alexander Siddig, Marton Csokas (God wills it!), and Brendan Gleeson are all incredibly fun to watch. And don't forget Edward Norton's King. I saw the movie three times before I realized it was him. I think your assessment of Bloom the movie star is pretty accurate, and he definitely does not bring down the film in any way. I think I might watch this tonight with some Christmas leftovers.
post #3 of 48
A truly wonderful film, one which has more depth if slightly less bluster than Scott's Gladiator.

I do think the only - and I mean only, as this is a film built from the ground up by artisans - is the forced casting of Bloom. There are so many well-cast actors, bringing gravitas or authenticity or both to their respective roles that Bloom feels like the slightly empty centre to a a brilliant surrounding experience. Then you find out that Scott wanted Paul Bettany for the part of Balian, but the studio wanted Bloom in order to help justify the price tag and your heart sinks. I can't imagine how much I would have loved the 'alternate universe' Bettany version.

HOWEVER, as it is, the DC is an extremely rich film, filled with not just well-structured, bloody battles (big fan of the ambush in the woods), but some great charactor work and a timely message about religion and war. Shout out to Michael Sheen too, as the weasily, treacherous priest/brother in the opening section. One of the few times he isn't impersonating a contemporary, real person and he eats the scenes up good and proper.
post #4 of 48
I agree the film is a masterpiece. It has a brilliant script, nuanced and old-school epic in turns. I did love the "God wills it" duality (Guy and Saladin's second), and I thought the film very concisely and non-judgementally summarizes Islam and Christianty:

God says "Choose." and Allah says "Submit." (paraphrased)

It also has some other fantastic beats (I loved Orlando's response to the priest after he discusses cinverting to Islam and God forgiving them later - "You've taught me a lot about religion). It plays as a strong proponent for faith and not so much for religion, but it does so without judgment or pretense.

It is a spectacular film, beautifully shot, wonderfully paced. One of Sir Ridley's very best.
post #5 of 48
I think it is Ridley best film.
post #6 of 48
One of the all-time greatest films ever. The Director's Cut though. I love the intro by Ridley on the DVD.
post #7 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Class 782 View Post
"You've taught me a lot about religion).
Re-watching it again tonight was the first time I've caught that line, or at least the first time it resonated with me. What a great film. Saladin's line of "Nothing....Everything" is pitch perfect.
post #8 of 48
Yeah just thought I would bring to thread back to life for like 5 seconds to say I just bought the blu ray at walmart for 10 bucks and it was completely worth it. I saw it when it first hit DVD but it wasn't the director's cut. I remember not liking it that much and possibly leaning toward boring. In fact I barely remembered it at all. I saw it on the shelf and it was like "oh yeah that movie" and I remember hearing the director's cut was better. I almost didn't pick it up because I don't usually have the opinion of "hey this sucks lets throw more at it" but I was so wrong. The first poster said it perfectly.
post #9 of 48
Yes, a grand movie that only a few can truly appreciate. Marton Csokas as Guy de Lusignan just owned it for me and so did Brendan Gleeson given his screen time.
post #10 of 48
I watched the first half of the Director's cut last night and I dread watching the second disc.

I wanted so much to love this, but sorry Orlando Bloom is a Black Hole of Charisma.

I love this era of history, I love that Scott made an attempt to get things right, I like the "twist" that Bloom's "brother" is dispatched in the first 10 minutes after you think he'll be the villain of the film, the Leper King, Saladin, the set pieces etc.

But there seems to be this tradition nowadays of taking really interesting historical characters and events, and saddling them with the most boring, bland, shatteringly dull fictional characters.

Kind of reminds me of how Liam Neeson was so great in his 10 minutes of screen time in Gangs of New York, and how I wished the film had been about him and Bill the Butcher, and not Dull-As-Nails Leo.

And yeah I get that Bloom is our "Doorway into another world" . Too bad that doorway is so fucking wooden!
post #11 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Thomas View Post
A truly wonderful film, one which has more depth if slightly less bluster than Scott's Gladiator.

I do think the only - and I mean only, as this is a film built from the ground up by artisans - is the forced casting of Bloom. There are so many well-cast actors, bringing gravitas or authenticity or both to their respective roles that Bloom feels like the slightly empty centre to a a brilliant surrounding experience. Then you find out that Scott wanted Paul Bettany for the part of Balian, but the studio wanted Bloom in order to help justify the price tag and your heart sinks. I can't imagine how much I would have loved the 'alternate universe' Bettany version.
The thing that takes me out of the film the most in both versions is how almost every character in the film basically says "HOLY SHIT! You look just like your father!!" when they first meet Balian when Bloom behaves in no way like Neeson and looks about as different from him as it is possible to look when you are a handsome Caucasian man. Bettany very probably could have at least blunted that, as he has Neeson's height and approximate build and doesn't just ooze "non-threatening pretty boy."
post #12 of 48
This movie would've been awesome if they cast someone better than Bloom.
post #13 of 48
The movie is awesome despite Bloom.
post #14 of 48
This is one of my favorites and I had no fucking idea that Edward Norton played the king. How did I manage to miss that piece of information for this long?
post #15 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyG View Post
Saladin's line of "Nothing....Everything" is pitch perfect.
I watch the movie almost just for that line. Not that it's not a wonderful film, it truly is, but something about that dialogue and the way Massoud delivers it is so exquisite that it is worth waiting through the entire movie to watch on its own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
The movie is awesome despite Bloom.
I find that that is typically the case with movies he ends up in. His badness is pretty bad but not bad enough to overwhelm the good in a film.
post #16 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Thomas View Post
Then you find out that Scott wanted Paul Bettany for the part of Balian, but the studio wanted Bloom in order to help justify the price tag and your heart sinks. I can't imagine how much I would have loved the 'alternate universe' Bettany version.
Really? Never knew. Ouch.
post #17 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Blackwell View Post
This is one of my favorites and I had no fucking idea that Edward Norton played the king. How did I manage to miss that piece of information for this long?
He was never credited. I think it was because he was in a mask the entire time, he said he just didn't want it (don't know the whole story). But given his track record of late, I say he should've demanded it!

And I will sing the praises of this film until my last breath. I'm not usually one for 'the meaning is in these words', but the entire exchange between Saladin and Balian, culminating in the 'What is Jerusalem worth?' 'Nothing...everything.' is simply, abundantly wonderful. I worked at a movie theater when this came out and during my shift I would run to the theater simply to see this scene.
post #18 of 48
Damn I shouldn't have read this thread. The thought of being denied a Kingdom Of Heaven with Bettany as Balian physically hurts. Still, it's a way better movie than Gladiator.
post #19 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
I watch the movie almost just for that line. Not that it's not a wonderful film, it truly is, but something about that dialogue and the way Massoud delivers it is so exquisite that it is worth waiting through the entire movie to watch on its own.
The delivery is exquisite but the line is one of the many problems I have with the film. The first act gives you the idea that the film is actually going to be about what the Crusades were about and then slowly devolves into "we'd all get along if it were not for how batshit crazy religion makes people." Jerusalem was worth quite a lot to people during the period for purely secular reasons: Egypt was the breadbasket of the ancient world and Jerusalem's geographical position gives its holder complete control over road traffic between it and Europe. Neeson and his group are going mainly for the riches that flow from that. The minute he dies, the focus of the conflict in the film becomes completely religious.
post #20 of 48
I think I'm the only person in the world who likes Bloom in this and wouldn't have him replaced, no not even by Paul Bettany.

Bloom is given a lot of shit for being wooden. But what others see as wooden and a lack of emoting or whatever, I see as true to the character. Bloom is not a bad actor, he's just saddled with this teen sensation bullshit and he hasn't bothered to work as hard to be legit as DiCaprio or Farrel. That said, he's younger than those guys (I think) and has time.

In terms of playing Balian, it's important to remember that Balian is a pretty fucking serious guy. He's pensive, thoughtful, and sort of lost. This is because of what happened with his family. When he gets to the Holy Land, he sees first-hand that religion can't release him from what he's done and instead he has to redeem himself on his own. He spends the majority of the film accomplishing just that and Bloom ably pulls off the transformation. Balian goes from a quiet, angsty runaway to a leader of men, with requisite fonts of integrity, honor, and conviction.

The most key quality of Bloom's performance is Balian's thoughtfulness. The guy is always introspective, and many scenes occur on the edge of his reflective moments. The best example of which may be the scene where the Hospitaler comes upon him when he's tossing rocks at the bush and lights it on fire. The guy is also pretty quiet, often reacting to other characters with action before speech. Good examples of this are his duel with Guy and fending off the Templar ambush.

Balian's journey is ultimately about salvation of the self, by the self. As opposed to salvation through outside means, such as religion or God.

I can't think of a scene in the film where Bloom comes off poorly or not up to par with the other actors. Of course, it's a role that demands different kinds of acting. Balian is very much a sponge for other characters in the film, and everybody has a lot of personality and input to share while he sort of navigates his way to self-actualization. This is why the device of having him repeat lines uttered by other characters works so well. This is the activity of Balian's choosing what philosophies and priorities to follow out of those he's being exposed to.
post #21 of 48
Interesting reading, Xion. I may have to crack open this DVD again soon.
post #22 of 48
Thread Starter 
I think I may be due for another watch of this over christmas actually. Great post Xion.
post #23 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion View Post
I can't think of a scene in the film where Bloom comes off poorly or not up to par with the other actors.
I completely agree. A great, soulful, muted performance. His dialogue is simple and effective. I love his quiet confession to Neeson near the beginning: "I have done... murder." He acts with his eyes and they seem weary and old. After his shipwreck, when he is forced to fight for his horse, witness the sad and resigned look on his face as he draws his sword (and that fight is one of my favorite scenes and one of my favorite screen duels ever, BTW). He has many great little moments like that in this movie.
post #24 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion View Post
I think I'm the only person in the world who likes Bloom in this and wouldn't have him replaced, no not even by Paul Bettany.

Bloom is given a lot of shit for being wooden. But what others see as wooden and a lack of emoting or whatever, I see as true to the character. Bloom is not a bad actor, he's just saddled with this teen sensation bullshit and he hasn't bothered to work as hard to be legit as DiCaprio or Farrel. That said, he's younger than those guys (I think) and has time.

In terms of playing Balian, it's important to remember that Balian is a pretty fucking serious guy. He's pensive, thoughtful, and sort of lost. This is because of what happened with his family. When he gets to the Holy Land, he sees first-hand that religion can't release him from what he's done and instead he has to redeem himself on his own. He spends the majority of the film accomplishing just that and Bloom ably pulls off the transformation. Balian goes from a quiet, angsty runaway to a leader of men, with requisite fonts of integrity, honor, and conviction.

The most key quality of Bloom's performance is Balian's thoughtfulness. The guy is always introspective, and many scenes occur on the edge of his reflective moments. The best example of which may be the scene where the Hospitaler comes upon him when he's tossing rocks at the bush and lights it on fire. The guy is also pretty quiet, often reacting to other characters with action before speech. Good examples of this are his duel with Guy and fending off the Templar ambush.

Balian's journey is ultimately about salvation of the self, by the self. As opposed to salvation through outside means, such as religion or God.

I can't think of a scene in the film where Bloom comes off poorly or not up to par with the other actors. Of course, it's a role that demands different kinds of acting. Balian is very much a sponge for other characters in the film, and everybody has a lot of personality and input to share while he sort of navigates his way to self-actualization. This is why the device of having him repeat lines uttered by other characters works so well. This is the activity of Balian's choosing what philosophies and priorities to follow out of those he's being exposed to.
An interesting reading. I can accept it and still have that visceral dislike.

Sponges are not interesting or entertaining. I watch movies to be entertained.

Everything and everyone around him is so much more interesting than he is! And I can't fathom why so many people are drawn to him as this almost messianic figure.

Why does Sibylla fall in love with him? I don't mean why does she want to bone him; that I get. "Oh, all the other men are so dashing and intriguing; your boredom makes me feel like a real woman!"

I contrast this with David Lean films like Lawrence of Arabia and Bridge of the River Kwai, which have long passages were nothing or next to nothing happens for long minutes. Yet I'm not bored in the least with these films becuase they have characters that I'm interested in and invested in.

Or Kubrick's Barry Lyndon, which has so much narrative craft that I never lose interest.

So I guess what I saying is, I didn't like the film!
post #25 of 48
Balian is charismatic because of his integrity. He is not pretentious like other characters in the movie, nor is he tempered by cynicism. People like Tiberius are more animated and interesting, but they're also cynical. Others, like Guy, are grandiose liars and showmen.

Sybilla loves Balian for his unassuming nature and his exceeding ability to cut through the bullshit and be a man of action. The charge at Karnak is a big fucking deal, and he'd be much beloved by chivalry and hero-loving people all over. They sort of understate how famous this would make Balian among the Christians but it's definitely a big deal to the Muslims which is a more important point to make in the movie as Balian is already famous for being Godfrey's son.

Also, the way Balian is always trying to improve conditions from the ground up is important. He works hard to improve Ibelin and is obviously a hard worker who leads by example rather than barking orders (Guy) or commanding religious fervor (Reynald). This earns him the respect of his men and Sybilla is a firsthand witness.

People miss this stuff because of preconceived notions about Bloom. Or they saw the Theatrical version which makes him out to be some kind of superman overnight, whereas in the DC there's history for the character as well as more pathos.

By the end of the movie, he has gray in his beard and hair. He's haggard and scarred. And fuck yeah, Bloom's acting is primarily in his gaze.

I found him fascinating to watch. He speaks so little, but with so much conviction that its actually HIS lines and not the oft-quoted lines of more dramatic characters that I remember.

Particularly, his speech to the defenders of Jerusalem.

"Who has claim!? ... None have claim... ALL have claim!"

I get shivers just thinking about that. Whatever could have happened with Bettany, Bloom more than carried his weight and it saddens me that he is considered to be some sort of Achilles Heel for what is really a perfect movie.

ETA: This thread inspired a thorough evaluation and defense of Bloom's performance which I wrote for my CHUDblog, Bloggunhymen.

Read it @ http://chud.com/articles/blogs/2201/...kest-link.html
post #26 of 48
I really don't know what to say to that ^

Except I did not watch the theatrical version and I quite liked Bloom in the LOTR movies, and he was ok in Pirates.

Again I can see all your arguments but I must have seen a different movie.

Oh and that line about Jerusalem where "All have claim"? That is a great Post Modern statement. Anyone who made it at that time would have met bewilderment from both Muslim and Christian.
post #27 of 48
Well yes, the script of Kingdom of Heaven isn't exactly trying to be representative of the times. It's sort of reaching across the centuries thematically to be relevant to us now.

As far as seeing this movie, maybe you should revisit it and try to keep what I said in mind. See if it makes any difference for you. That could be giving myself too much credit, it is 3 frickin' hours long.
post #28 of 48
Quick question is the DC worth watching even for people* who HATED the theatrical cut?


*ie. me
post #29 of 48
I disliked the theatrical cut, but love the DC. Give it a shot. It may not change your mind, but it's completely worthy of the chance.
post #30 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Quick question is the DC worth watching even for people* who HATED the theatrical cut?


*ie. me
Yes. Yes you should.

And nice one Xion. We pretty much said the same the same thing in the old thread about that movie. Bloom is playing Balian pretty well, but this "blank slate" that people refer too is much more present in Asian cinema, a more passive protagonist .There's not much else to be added to your posts, as it pretty much sums up why Bloom did well in his role. Yeah, maybe having Bettany would have been awesome, but I don't know how Balian, like he is played or written here, would have come out with him in the lead.
post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion View Post
Well yes, the script of Kingdom of Heaven isn't exactly trying to be representative of the times. It's sort of reaching across the centuries thematically to be relevant to us now.

As far as seeing this movie, maybe you should revisit it and try to keep what I said in mind. See if it makes any difference for you. That could be giving myself too much credit, it is 3 frickin' hours long.
I will give it another chance ...in 6 months or so. There was enough there to intrigue me, and you make some excellent arguments.
post #32 of 48
I always thought Bloom was fine in KOH: DC (I have little recollection of the theatrical cut). It's definitely not a star-making performance. And that's not a criticism. It's just not a Maximum-type character.

I thought he did a good job toning down his usual tics and mannerisms and supported the film well. And seeing as how we don't live in a bubble, I think it was a mistake to cast the guy when he came with so much baggage. If Bloom were an unknown and gave the exact same performance, I think more people could've been much more favorable towards it.
post #33 of 48
I agree, his persona worked against him. I don't think it's a star-maker either, but it is certainly a credible performance from the guy who shot to stardom based on skating down stairs shooting a bow as an androgynous elf.

Up until Kingdom of Heaven, Bloom had not earned our respect except for that he wasn't a complete embarrassment. Even in Troy, the DC of which I revisited yesterday, puts him in a really shitty position. That movie's script just blows and Paris is a completely unlikable character the movie spends 30 minutes criticizing only to drop it altogether exactly when all hell breaks loose. He was basically playing an annoying "love at all costs" teenager but the role didn't do him any favors as an actor.

Anyway, my point is that while it may have been a mistake to cast him and Balian doesn't completely overturn his undeserved fame into deserved fame... it is still a role that has the power to alter your perception of him as an actor. This counts for a lot and stands in contention with the ridiculous claim that he is KOH's "it's great, but..."

The fucking movie doesn't even HAVE one of those. : P
post #34 of 48
Thread Starter 
Just rewatched this today and the film just gets better for me with each viewing. Special thanks to Xion too, as watching Blooms Balian with that blank slate interpretation in mind actually made for a more fulfilling experience. The blank slate take on the character certainly gives Blooms performance a more thematically interesting context to anchor the story to.

I also noticed this time how much the film is allowed to breath visually between moments of dialogue, there's not a whole lot of words for a 3 hour film really, it tells a large proportion of its story visually, only using the barest dialogue in certain parts to contextualise what we're seeing.

This film really is Ridleys masterpiece I believe, he just doesn't put a foot wrong. By the time we get to the siege of Jerusalem I still find myself tensely pulling on my beard as I watch as if I'm seeing it for the first time.
post #35 of 48
I saw this during it's theatrical release, and now I regret it after seeing the Director's Cut. I barely remember anything from the original, which is probably a gift, because a lot of this Cut was like seeing it for the first time.

My two cents on Bloom as Balian - he isn't terrible, in fact, he's decent enough, but he doesn't stand-out until the second half, specifically after his return from his burning bushes. When he's given the reigns and takes leadership, rather than just stand around and respond to the superior performers, he fares really well. Props to Xion, who makes a very strong case for him in his first post.

I gotta say, Mr. Jeremy Irons was the disappointing factor here. He was the weak link to me as all he did was quietly snarl his lines in every scene. It wasn't until his very last appearance, when he parts ways with Balian, that I reacted to what he said.

The MVP here is easily Ghassan Massoud as King Saladin, and it's a God damned shame he doesn't work very often. Csokas, Gleeson and The Great Siddig all help put the pieces together nicely.

On the technical front, it's visually striking, a modern epic definitely reminiscent of David Lean's work. My only problem is with the sound editing, as I was thrown off by a lot of mismatched notes throughout the entire film. But that's a tiny chink in the armor of this overlooked Ridley Scott epic masterpiece.
post #36 of 48
Time for a rewatch I think. Ghassan Massoud was in the acclaimed Turkish movie 'Valley of the Wolves:Iraq' about US soldiers massacring civilians.
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zollicoffer View Post
I saw this during it's theatrical release, and now I regret it after seeing the Director's Cut. I barely remember anything from the original, which is probably a gift, because a lot of this Cut was like seeing it for the first time.
I bought the Director's Cut on BluRay based on the CHUD recommendation. I don't think I remembered the original as well as I thought, because most of it seemed new to me as well. The poisoning of the child and the more overt way the characters were pushed into that last act was much better. The movie felt longer, more like an actual crusade, rather than a 2 hour drive by the first film gives us.

Quote:
The MVP here is easily Ghassan Massoud as King Saladin, and it's a God damned shame he doesn't work very often. Csokas, Gleeson and The Great Siddig all help put the pieces together nicely.
Damn straight. I would like to see him in more things, or a movie from the Saladin point of view.

Speaking of Siddig el Fadil, I am currently watching BSG for the first time. Did the casting sheet say 'Alexander Siddig-type?' If I am doing something and look up, James Callis reminds me of him every time, to the point I kind of wished it was Siddig. another man I wished worked more.
post #38 of 48

I got the blu-ray of the Director's Cut for $8.50 at the Half Price Books down the street ($10 but I had a 15% off coupon).  Great deal considering I paid $25 for the DC DVD when it first came out and Amazon had it at 50% off.

 

And yet there are no special features on the blu-ray.  No booklet insert.  And worst of all, no overture at the beginning of the film.  I don't miss the intermission, but is it really still the DC with these elements missing?

post #39 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hill View Post

I got the blu-ray of the Director's Cut for $8.50 at the Half Price Books down the street ($10 but I had a 15% off coupon).  Great deal considering I paid $25 for the DC DVD when it first came out and Amazon had it at 50% off.

 

And yet there are no special features on the blu-ray.  No booklet insert.  And worst of all, no overture at the beginning of the film.  I don't miss the intermission, but is it really still the DC with these elements missing?



I had the blu in hand until I noticed this fact as well. I'll hang onto my gorgeous tin bookletted box set personally. Don;t know why this film has been on my mind the last 24 hours but it has. I don't do annual watches of many of my favorite films these days, but I do find myself coming back to this one at least every twelve months. Think I may be due for a rewatch soon.

post #40 of 48

You know something I love with this movie? It handles the up-close combat stuff insanely well. The fight in the forest near the beginning is still one of my favorite medieval action scenes. None of the guys move clunky whatsoever, and move like the type of killing machines you'd think knights might be in that age.

post #41 of 48

 

Kingdom Of Heaven: The Directors Cut is Leo Tolstoy views on government put to film, read 'Kingdom of God Is Within You.' I love the film, and for those who hate the part when Balian turns down the crown, in many people view, and not just Tolstoy, that would be the proper Christian response. In Tolstoy and other like mind Christians view Christianity is all about Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount, and government and organized religion are the antithesis of those teachings.

post #42 of 48

Careful there Robert are you saying Christianity teaches individualistic accountability first not some mono dogmatic overseer should be running our lives?

 

Get the fuck out of here. Oh and forgot to put Ridley Scott on my list of favorite filmmakers this is a tremendous achievement in film making and 20th Century Fox fucked this film.

 

Can't tell you how happy I was to see the directors cut and to understand what the film was really about though.

 

I was sad there wasn't more Norton, Neeson or Csokas. This film has a murders row of great supporting actors doing their thing. Thewlis is the standout btw.

 

For the record Bettany was the smart choice and would have been great in the role. Bloom is excess baggage and does nothing to elevate it.

 

If I want a blank slate i'll watch Freddie Prinze Jr act.

post #43 of 48

I just bought the Blu-ray of this movie on Wednesday, and it's something I've been meaning to see for quite some time now. Hope it's as great as I've been hearing. From those screen caps, I'm expecting nothing short of epic.

post #44 of 48
Thread Starter 

I actually class it as Ridleys most visually stunning film - which is really saying something.

post #45 of 48

Over Blade Runner? Thats pretty stunning but i'm sure in 30 years what film people will continue to talk about visually and otherwise it won't be KOH.

post #46 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker View Post

Over Blade Runner? Thats pretty stunning but i'm sure in 30 years what film people will continue to talk about visually and otherwise it won't be KOH.



Well one's seen as a classic and the other's barely been seen by anyone, so forgive me if I'm not in awe of your Nostradamus-like abilities of prophecy there Johnny.

post #47 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker View Post

Careful there Robert are you saying Christianity teaches individualistic accountability first not some mono dogmatic overseer should be running our lives?

 

Get the fuck out of here. Oh and forgot to put Ridley Scott on my list of favorite filmmakers this is a tremendous achievement in film making and 20th Century Fox fucked this film.

 

Can't tell you how happy I was to see the directors cut and to understand what the film was really about though.

 

I was sad there wasn't more Norton, Neeson or Csokas. This film has a murders row of great supporting actors doing their thing. Thewlis is the standout btw.

 

For the record Bettany was the smart choice and would have been great in the role. Bloom is excess baggage and does nothing to elevate it.

 

If I want a blank slate i'll watch Freddie Prinze Jr act.



yes I am.

 

1 Corinthians 6:12 [ The Body Is the Lord’s ] [1 Cor 10:23] All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.
 

post #48 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

[US] Kingdom of Heaven (2005) [Director's Cut] Screenshot #22/30

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Time for a rewatch I think. Ghassan Massoud was in the acclaimed Turkish movie 'Valley of the Wolves:Iraq' about US soldiers massacring civilians.



The film of choice for me without question, stunning picture and exactly what makes movies amazing.

Ghassan Massoud was amazing in this, I remember reading in empire, he was brought as a consultant as he is a University teacher plus a theatre actor and was going to advise on the time period, more specifically Saladin. After lots of auditions Ridley Scott realised Ghassan was the only man to play Saladin.

 

His role in Valley of the Wolves is very small, beginning part only, presiding over a marriage. Then it all goes to hell!

 

 

 

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