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Gene Wolfe /New Sun/Long Sun/etc. thread

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I started the Book Of The New Sun tetralogy after seeing a random recommendation here, and reading Wolfe's introductions to one of the Sandman trades.

I consider these books no less than life changing. They got me back into reading in a big way, after many years went by where I would just read a book or two a year. Wolfe has done no less than restore my faith in the infinite possibilities of the written word.

They have surface elements of genre (scifi, speculative fiction, fantasy), but the genre elements are treated as just another part of world myth, and used alongside literary and historical references. Wolfe makes a world that feels like it really exists, with characters and dialogue that consistently immerse you deeper and deeper.

The four books (Shadow, Claw, Sword, Citadel) essentially form a single book. Incidents that seemed insignificant and minor (or just plain perplexing) in earlier books almost always end up returning later with new context and importance, delivering frequently mindblowing revelations. The scope of the story keeps expanding exponentially as it progresses. The only thing you can be sure of as you read is that whatever you think is really going on, whoever you think these characters really are, you're wrong.

In a conceptual twist on on the memoir style, our narrator Severian is constantly making references to the infallibility of his memory...with some caveats, of course. The element of uncertainty introduced by the suspicious nature of the narration adds infinite layers of complexity to the book. I am notorious for missing subtext, even when accompanied by big flashing lights, so I would never even have thought Severian was an "unreliable narrator" unless I had read it in every description and review of the books.

The use of language is an elemental part of the construction of this world. If you haven't read it yet, I'll try to give an example of Wolfe's approaches and concepts. Words frequently appear in Latin, but they are not literally in Latin in the world of Urth. Wolfe notes in one of the introductions that in this "translation" of Severian's book, Latin words are used to convey to us the ancient language of Urth's world that has no direct translation. If you go with the theory that Severian's journey starts in what used to be South America, then the Latin words would actually be our modern day English, and the book set in the far future. That's one brief example why there are entire books written just as a guide to this world (Lexicon Urthus, Solar Labyrinth).

To even begin to scratch the surface of what makes these books so special, I'd have to write all day, so I'll leave it at that for now. I was itching to reread the 4 New Sun books from the beginning as soon as I finished them, but instead I decided to read some more Wolfe first.

I just finished the Long Sun tetralogy, that's sort-of connected to the New Sun books. Apparently you also have to read the 3 Short Sun books to see how the whole massive pile of books ties together, but it'll take me a while to get there. Actually understanding, not just reading, the whole series may take me 10 years, or a lifetime.

I didn't enjoy the Long Sun books quite as much, but only because they are a more difficult read. They are no less rewarding. This series is much more dialogue driven, and uses religious allegory in a way I've never seen before to comment on the nature of belief. The story and world are lies within lies within illusions, wrapped in mysteries, wrapped in enigmas...you get the idea. You might find yourself wondering what the point of much of the 4th book was after, but as a whole it's an amazing series.

Currently I'm working on Wolfe's collection of 70s short stories, "The Island Of Doctor Death And Other Stories And Other Stories". Don't let the weird joke title fool you, this is a treasure trove. Wolfe can create an entire world in just a few pages. As usual, it uses genre elements as frequently as it subverts them. The variety of stories is similar to Frank Herbert's collection "Eye", but these have more weight.

If you still need convincing, or you can't quite get what these New Sun books are all about, the closest contemporary I can think of is Dune. They both deal with the rise of a supposed messiah in a mystical scifi setting in an intricately detailed world. Not to put down Dune in any way, it's still an amazing book, but Dune is light reading compared to New Sun. Don't go rushing into New Sun thinking you can blaze through it for an entertaining story with a little food for thought on the side, these books take total concentration and dedication. Your mind will thank me later.
post #2 of 11
You're right. The Book of the New Son stuff is amazing. Having only read it once, I feel like I haven't really read it at all. But every time I think of reading it again, I get too intimidated by its scope and difficulty.

Seriously though, people who like science fiction should really check these out.
post #3 of 11
Loved 'The Book of the New Sun'. Without spoiling anything there are things in the books that I don't noramlly like, but they work so well here that I was able to get passed them.

A great read that reminds me of Peake's Gormenghast more than anything else. Definitely not light reads, but worth the effort.
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
I've completed the Long Sun books, and I also finally got around to Urth Of The New Sun.

Urth was very good, but not quite as mind blowing as most of his other books. I'm probably missing out on some metaphors and religious allegories in all the incomprehensible events near the end.

The Long Sun books have more characters that you actually care about, a distinct difference from Severian's mostly selfish quest in New Sun. There is also a moving poignancy to the clockwork world of The Whorl that makes it a much more distinct setting than Urth.

The labyrinthian plots of political deception and divine intervention are constantly drawn in different directions by the conflicting and contrasting wills of the characters. Many threads are left seemingly hanging, sticking in your mind. I'm tempted to say Long Sun has been Wolfe's most affecting work.

I have the 3 Short Sun books now too, which I am devouring at a rapid pace. The first, On Blue's Waters, was an amazing beginning. The bare plot description in itself won't prepare you for what's in store. The protagonist is unlike any other in the Sun cycle, with a first person writing style that is a constant slave to mental whims and moods, wandering back and forth and through two different timelines.

Now to finish the second book, In Green's Jungles. Then, only one left, Return to the Whorl.
post #5 of 11
I might re-read The Book of the New Sun at some point. The last time I read it I must have spent a month making notes, referencing and cross-referencing. There's a lot to take in and you really have to commit yourself to concentration or you end up missing half the subtleties.

Neil Gaiman said it well:

Quote:
How to read Gene Wolfe:
1) Trust the text implicitly. The answers are in there.
2) Do not trust the text farther than you can throw it, if that far. It's tricksy and desperate stuff, and it may go off in your hand at any time.
3) Reread. It's better the second time. It will be even better the third time. And anyway, the books will subtly reshape themselves while you are away from them.Peace really was a gentle Midwestern memoir the first time I read it. It only became a horror novel on the second or the third reading.
4) There are wolves in there, prowling behind the words. Sometimes they come out in the pages. Sometimes they wait until you close the book. The musky wolf-smell can sometimes be masked by the aromatic scent of rosemary. Understand, these are not today-wolves, slinking grayly in packs through deserted places. These are the dire-wolves of old, huge and solitary wolves that could stand their ground against grizzlies.
5) Reading Gene Wolfe is dangerous work. It's a knife-throwing act, and like all good knife-throwing acts, you may lose fingers, toes, earlobes or eyes in the process. Gene doesn't mind. Gene is throwing the knives.
6) Make yourself comfortable. Pour a pot of tea. Hang up a DO NOT DISTURB Sign. Start at Page One.
7) There are two kinds of clever writer. The ones that point out how clever they are, and the ones who see no need to point out how clever they are. Gene Wolfe is of the second kind, and the intelligence is less important than the tale. He is not smart to make you feel stupid. He is smart to make you smart as well.
8) He was there. He saw it happen. He knows whose reflection they saw in the mirror that night.
9) Be willing to learn.
For a good few years BOTNS was my favourite Wolfe novel. Today I tend to favour The Fifth Head of Cerberus slightly because of its compactness and narrative sleight-of-hand.

Have you tried the Urth repository? It's not been updated for a while but some of the old discussions are pretty illuminating. There's always a danger with Wolfe that you'll end up on a wild goose chase where words and meaning part company altogether. Treacherous ...

Baldanders is the character I like most (closely followed by Dr. Talos). At first he appears to be a harmless giant, but as the story progresses (if you are paying attention) it begins to dawn on you that he's far more complex than the affects.

I love this passage:

Quote:
“What frightened me – and I was frightened, I admit, and wished heartily I had Terminus Est in my hands instead of the iron flambeau – was what I can only call the expression beneath the lack of expression on his face. It was there like the black water we sometimes glimpse moving beneath the ice when the river freezes. Baldanders had found terrible joy now in being as he was; and when I faced him I realized for the first time that he was not so much feigning madness on the stage as feigning sanity and his dim humility off it.”
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
That Urth discussion list looks like great stuff. I can't wait to go through all of it once I finish Return To The Whorl, then get prepared for my first New Sun reread.

I feel like my reading mind is in a completely different place now than when I started New Sun almost 2 years ago, almost like the mental transformations certain protagonists have gone through over time...
post #7 of 11
I just finished Citadel of the Autarch, and my mind is still reeling. I'm tempted to think I'm just not smart enough to grok what Wolfe is up to. I know I'll read them again someday, but right now, I need to rest my head. Because it might explode.
post #8 of 11
I used to own Shadow/Claw, loved the idea of it, the writing seemed so rich, but I couldn't get into it, could barely comprehend it, eventually got rid of it somehow...

But ten years later, I've been gorging myself lately on Jorge Luis Borges/Umberto Eco/Italo Calvino and I think I'm more prepared. I just ordered the New Sun series, due to this thread. Can't wait.
post #9 of 11
I can't emphasize enough how having access to the Oxford Unabridged while reading enhances the story. You think you're getting most of it through context, but you really aren't. I didn't start using it till midway through Citadel and it made me regret reading the other three without it. It was simply revelatory. "Smilodon" alone knocked me on my ass.

If you have a halfway decent public library, you should be able to get access to it online. Good luck.
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I can't even think straight about the last half of Citadel until I start rereading them all from the beginning. "Urth Of The New Sun" clears up a lot of ambiguous things, but I still like to think of the original 4 books existing as self contained.

Return To The Whorl didn't disappoint. It tied in with New Sun in ways I didn't expect, made it feel like New, Long, and Short were all really part of the same universe. I don't think Short Sun had as much impact on me as Long Sun, but it definitely had it's own distinct appeal. The setting itself was the most mundane of the 3 series, but it had possibly the most interesting protagonist, or "narrator". You'll have to read them to see what I mean.

I've also finished Starwater Strains, another excellent short story collection. There's a few in there that come close to straight supernatural horror, Steven King style. Others are straight fantasy, others are just bizarre.

Next on my plate is Soldier of the Mist/Arete, and Wizard/Knight. The standalone novels like Peace will have to wait.
post #11 of 11
I just wanted to say I blazed through all four parts of the New Sun series and it was amazing. I'm just starting Urth and I'm about to put in an order for the next two series. Thanks to all for reminding me of Gene Wolfe, I can't wait to read his other works.
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